Speculation: Armchair GM Thread

[glenngineer]

Adding elite forward talents hurts. We didn’t want to give up the pieces for Stone. Tolvanen was on the board and we’re like, he’s a first-rounder with a lethal shot. Remember how that turned out? I hate Stone and his punchable face but I would’ve gladly given up Tolvanen plus to get him.

Same goes for guys like Eichel and Tkachuk. Maybe we didn’t have the pieces. Maybe we didn’t have the future assets but when those guys become available, you move heaven and earth for them. If a player like that is available now, I’d move ZLH in a heart beat.

Cozens is nowhere near the player these other guys were at the time. There’s hope he can become a better player. You don’t trade good young players who are progressing for guys who aren’t established. Losing Fabbro and Tomasino like we have was bad, this would be egregious in comparison.

 

[glenngineer]

We're also banking on a top 5 pick being that 1c we've been looking for. I think I want to lock down that piece at the draft before getting pieces to build around him. Thoughts?

Fully agree. If you have too many centers, that's the problem you want to have. I wouldn't move any valuable asset until you get the pieces at the top of your roster.

Speaking of this, we've always built from the net out. Hard to win like this in the league. You build around a top-notch 1C, 1D, 2C and then the surrounding players. I think we have the D prospects in Molendyk and Gibson. We had the goalie in Askarov. We have a litany of 2C possibilities.

SJ is in a much better building space as they have their top 2 centers and their goalie. I want to say they have a 1D prospect as well but not 100% on this.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Adding elite forward talents hurts. We didn’t want to give up the pieces for Stone. Tolvanen was on the board and we’re like, he’s a first-rounder with a lethal shot. Remember how that turned out? I hate Stone and his punchable face but I would’ve gladly given up Tolvanen plus to get him.

Same goes for guys like Eichel and Tkachuk. Maybe we didn’t have the pieces. Maybe we didn’t have the future assets but when those guys become available, you move heaven and earth for them. If a player like that is available now, I’d move ZLH in a heart beat.

Cozens is nowhere near the player these other guys were at the time. There’s hope he can become a better player. You don’t trade good young players who are progressing for guys who aren’t established. Losing Fabbro and Tomasino like we have was bad, this would be egregious in comparison.

Oh I would absolutely throw ZLH into the pile for a player like that.

I just don't see much hope that Cozens is that level of player.

People were talking about Brady Tkachuk wanting out a while back. He's not a C. But I'd throw everything and the kitchen sink at getting a player like that if he was available.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Didn't read the last page but getting rid of L'Heureux right now is a mistake. He reminded Smith and McCarron that they are grinders and supposed play that way. Other teams already hate him and he isn't doing anything egregious out there.

If you want to use Parssinen, Novak and picks to get a center, fine. Do not f***ing throw away a kid like L'Heureux because you have a fever dream about someone else's prospect.

This. I would not underrate ZLH's upside. He should be getting more time with us than he has been getting, but he's still chipping in despite not getting the ideal utilization. I think he can be an absolute beast as that abrasive scoring pest player for a true contending team.

I frankly would not trade him straight up for Cozens, considering that contract Cozens has.

Sometimes you have players that you just see as Part Of The Solution, and if you're in trade negotiations you tell the other team that guy simply Is Not Available. ZLH would be in that category with me. I think it's basically only him and Molendyk. Maybe Surin. But come to me on any of our other prospects, maybe I could listen. But ZLH should be a no-go. We have enough pretty good prospects that you don't have to include him, not when you're taking a chance on a guy with warts like Cozens. Again, it'd be different if we were going after a bigger name. But that's not Cozens.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Oh I would absolutely throw ZLH into the pile for a player like that.

I just don't see much hope that Cozens is that level of player.

People were talking about Brady Tkachuk wanting out a while back. He's not a C. But I'd throw everything and the kitchen sink at getting a player like that if he was available.

L'Heureux for an young elite-ish type guy? Yes. For a player having the same issues as many of the Preds prospects? No thanks.

He's the only guy to truly push his way out of the AHL in years.

 

[glenngineer]

Interestingly, ROR had never scored 65 points until the year he win the Cup. And last year was his only year above that since.

And while that's a fair point, he is the exception to the rule. There are other instances in the last 20 or so years but for the most part, it starts with a 1C or guys like O'Reilly and Kopitar and Bergeron who are exceptional 2 way centers. MacDonald for the Ducks and Gomez for the Devils are the only other examples where teams didn't have that stud 1C and in those cases, they had stellar d corps and Anaheim had a couple of kids who hit their stride in Getzlaf and Perry.

On the flip side, you can have a 1C or even two of them and not make any noise. SJ had prime Thornton and Marleau, TML have Matthews and Tavares, the Oilers have McJesus and Drai so it's not always a guarantee either. Florida had Barkov and until they added Tkachuk, they didn't cross the finish line.

If I'm building a team I'm looking at these components - 1C, 2C, two effective top 6 wingers, 1D, 2D and 3D that can eat minutes come playoff time (think Keith, Seabrook, Hjarlmasson), 1G that makes all the stops he's supposed to, a third line that are playoff warriors and are hard to play against and score timely goals in big games. I know that's a lot to want but that recipe has worked pretty well over the years. Maybe not exactly but a lot of this hits.

Honestly, if we had brought back Fisher, Neal and Wilson the year after the run and make the trade for Turris, that top 9 would've been super hard to play against. Those three were physical and had solid puck possession numbers. And while our top 6 was great that next year, bringing those three back would've given us a deeper run and allowed us to get past the Jets.

 

[glenngineer]

Oh I would absolutely throw ZLH into the pile for a player like that.

I just don't see much hope that Cozens is that level of player.

People were talking about Brady Tkachuk wanting out a while back. He's not a C. But I'd throw everything and the kitchen sink at getting a player like that if he was available.

I would too. Both Tkachuk brothers are the other type of unicorn a team gives us major assets for. 1C, abrasive/physical winger and elite defensive forward that scores at a ppg average.

 

[adsfan]

Yeah, if I see the Preds basically "throwing in" ZLH in a deal like this, it just reads more to me again like Trotz liquidating players he didn't pick. L'Heureux has made a very nice ascension through the pro ranks so far. We seem to be very predisposed to having guys play out the string in the AHL, but he has forced himself onto the NHL roster after just 1 season. I think he has a lot more he's going to show over the next couple of seasons.

His player type is definitely somewhat rare. Some might say that's almost a "good thing", and maybe Trotz doesn't like the history or the possibility of ZLH being a "marked man" by the refs, and how that might play out? I don't know. It just seems to me like there is maybe not that much separating ZLH and Cozens as assets to begin with. Then you factor in Cozens' contract. Then we're piling in a bunch more on top of ZLH?

Are the refs being unfair to Zach in the NHL? The answer is NO. He has 12 PIMs in 26 games.
That is a non-issue. Stop living in the past.

Zach had 48 points in 66 games, despite having almost 200 PIMs in the AHL.
I blame Bruno and his IDIOTIC coaching methods for the big decrease in output down to 7 points.

My rule of thumb is that if you score X points in the AHL, you should score half of that in the NHL for two seasons. That number should trend towards X in season 3 or 4. L'Heureux has gone from 0.727 PPG in the AHL to 0.269 PPG in the NHL. He should be around 0.364 PPG. So he is 1 point per 10 games low. Why do anything related to L'Heureux this season?


If I was starting a hockey team, Zach L'Heureux would be a player that I would get. He can skate, pass, shoot, score and fight. He will kill penalties.

If Nashville is willing to give up on a 21 year old player, they will look like the New Coyotes.

My daughter said that Haslam was going to ruin the Preds. After less than 1.5 years, she is already looking to be correct. She has a bad habit of doing that.

 

[Kat Predator]

ZLH is the closest thing we have had to a Tkachuk in a long time.

I guess that means blow the canopy and pull the ejection lever on him.

 

[Soundgarden]

We did have Jeannot when he was on his game, hopefully he ends up better than that.

 

[Kat Predator]

We did have Jeannot when he was on his game, hopefully he ends up better than that.

Jeannot could fight, hit, tip a puck, hit, stand in front of the net, and fight.

ZLH has quite a bit more in his toolbox IMHO.

 

[ShagDaddy]

My daughter said that Haslam was going to ruin the Preds. After less than 1.5 years, she is already looking to be correct. She has a bad habit of doing that.

Haslam doesn’t take over as majority owner until July of 2025.

 

[ShagDaddy]

Didn't read the last page but getting rid of L'Heureux right now is a mistake. He reminded Smith and McCarron that they are grinders and supposed play that way. Other teams already hate him and he isn't doing anything egregious out there.

If you want to use Parssinen, Novak and picks to get a center, fine. Do not f***ing throw away a kid like L'Heureux because you have a fever dream about someone else's prospect.

L’Heureux’s name is one that the Sabres brought up. That’s all that was mentioned, just an inquiry. From what I’ve read and seen Trotz isn’t considering including L’Heureux as part of the deal.

 

[hido]

Man, all of this really sucks.

 

[Scoresberg]

Yeah, like I’ve said I’d really like Cozens on this team.

But probably not at the expense of ZLH. He’s a fantastic player that we don’t have anyone to replace with. I’d much rather trade Svechkov than ZLH.

 

[Byrddog]

Not sure about this situation. On one hand the team sorely needs talented centers. One the other Cozens has shown just one season of nice numbers. Remember Jeanott he had one good season as well. It happens Cozens good year was over shadowed by Thompson. Last year Thompson had a down year and Cozens did not step up. I see nothing that would indicate him as a future 1C. Then there is ZHL a raw prospect still but could be special.

While it is true this organization has to look for players developed outside this system is this the trade needed? Add to it this years draft projects to be one of the weakest in some time moving picks is not issue.

There are going to be moved before the TDL that will change this roster. It does not appear Trotz is willing to give up on the coaching staff. The entire thing falls on Trotz shoulders, his coach his roster. He has created this it's his to fix.

 

[herzausstein]

I would trade ZLH if it were for the right player and thatd be it. I would need a EP, AM type center. Known high end player. Then the dump truck gets backed up and they can pick what they want. I wouldnt trade him for a question mark like Cozens though.

 

[Scoresberg]

ZLH is exactly the type of player you win with. A Marchand, a Gourde, a Tkachuk. Just cannot move those guys. I’d go as far as saying that maybe aside from Molendyk, he’s the most valuable asset we have in the org.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

I know no one wants to give up talent, but you do have to give to get anything of value.

At this point, Cozens is more of a known quantity than ZLH is. In this scenario, Buffalo is actually taking on more "risk" at a bust than we are.

ZLH COULD be a Marchand, Kessler lite... but he could also be Nick Cousins or Vern Fiddler. Moving him for a known quantity NHLer under 24 is a no brainier depending on what you are adding to the package. This isn't an Erat/Forsberg situation.

However.... You also have to look at the team's situation. If you are making this deal to be better now, bad deal. If you are making this deal to be better in the next 2+ years, go for it.

This is going to be painful to say but we don't have a Cozens in our prospect pool right now. Svechkov, Surin, Edstrom, Stiga all project to be middle six centers. And that's the key: PROJECT. They could easily not even make it to the show or become Colin Wilson. You just don't really know and I have absolutely 0 faith in Scott Nichol leading their development. I know we say "fire Bruno" but how about we fire Nichol? What prospect has this guy developed into a quality NHLer in 7 years?

The only forward prospects in our system that may give me pause is Wood and Kemmell. Both have top 6 potential. But both are also quickly approaching 21, which also means if they haven't made it yet they simply may not be as good as their ceiling projects. Harsh to say, but NHL forwards make the transition from the draft to the roster much easier than defensemen.

So would I do the deal? It depends what the sweeteners are and what additional contract Buffalo sends us assuming we are giving them two.

If it is as simple as Novak and ZLH for Cozen's I think you do that deal without looking back. If it's those two plus a first, I have much more pause. It also greatly depends on how much Buffalo retains.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

On the bright side, I feel like we've talked about this enough that it almost certainly won't happen now. We don't usually get this much time to fret about things.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Yeah, I love ZLH, or at least I thought I did, but I had no idea the opinions of him were so high around here. Mentioning him in the same sentence as Marchand or Tkachuk seems wild to me at this point. I agree with Yoshi that it's very possible ZLH is a Nick Cousins type player that tops out as a 15/15 or 15/20 agitator. Those are certainly valuable things to have on your team, but nothing in his history suggests he is going to be the same level that Tkachuk was at. You could argue his AHL production was similar to Marchand, but there are a LOT of guys that score at that rate who aren't Brad Marchand. Tkachuk is on a completely different level if you look back at his breakout age and where he was at scoring at 20 and 21.

I'm not trying to shit on ZLH and I like him a lot as a player, but it does feel that we sometimes project what our players are going to be without accepting the huge range and the MOST likely level that player finishes at. Gourde might be the type of player that ZLH hits, and that would be great, but you're still talking about a guy that has 1 outlier year at 64 points and is more a mid 40s type player than a game changer for his career.

Cozens is only 21 months older than ZLH and in those 2 years of difference he has almost a 70-point season and a season right at 50 points. He's not been good this year, but if you think he's a long term 2C that is a mid 50s to mid 60s type production player he's absolutely worth the gamble.

On the bright side, I feel like we've talked about this enough that it almost certainly won't happen now. We don't usually get this much time to fret about things.

haha, you are dead on with that.

 

[glenngineer]

I’m not trading ZLH or Svechkov for a kid who’s regressing on a bad contract. Novak and Parssinen, sure. Svechkov has a high IQ. ZLH rose his game in the AHL playoffs last year and those types don’t grow on trees. I’d like to see how he does in the NHL playoffs before moving on for a guy who doesn’t have the IQ or ability to drive play.

As I said in a different post, if this were for an established elite forward, no hesitation on making that move. Cozens is not that type of player.

 

[Scoresberg]

I’m not trading ZLH or Svechkov for a kid who’s regressing on a bad contract. Novak and Parssinen, sure. Svechkov has a high IQ. ZLH rose his game in the AHL playoffs last year and those types don’t grow on trees. I’d like to see how he does in the NHL playoffs before moving on for a guy who doesn’t have the IQ or ability to drive play.

As I said in a different post, if this were for an established elite forward, no hesitation on making that move. Cozens is not that type of player.

Svechkov is the guy we're filling in Cozens for. The 2C for the foreseeable future. We also have Edström coming through the pipeline and Surin could be a center option as well, although this year he has played mostly wing. Oh, and Pärssinen, too in case we keep him.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

With Cozens, (this is obvious) I think it's all about the ask. Happy to give the guy a chance with some new scenery, but we're a full season and a half removed from his one good season and, stats-wise, is regressing. Sabres fans seem to be overrating him a bit in the ask. I'd give one of our late 1st (Probably Vegas) and a meh player/prospect, but not much more.

 

[weeze]

So, you're good with Novak, ZLH, and a 1st for Cozens?

Having seen this movie several times already, I'm pretty confident with the expectation that he's not going to be our magical #1C unicorn if he comes here. Also, not going to say we don't need to upgrade down the middle anyway.

"Magical Unicorn" no but what we have now is bad. Sometimes players need to leave where they are for whatever reason. It worked for Eichel. This kid is young. My biggest fear is that the current Org Leadership hasn't shown they know how to use the players we already have. Marchy has complained he doesn't know from shift to shift who is linemates are. That is NOT a good way to develop chemistry. IJDK.