Speculation: Armchair GM - Offseason Thread (Summer Edition)

[5th Line Fanatic]

& if you decide to keep him you realize you are paying him millions more per year when your contending window is open

Since I doubt I'll be hired to replace Jarmo, it won't be me. But, it's not hard for me to imagine a new GM not wanting to invest major dollars and term in a second line winger that he didn't draft. If KJ proves to be a game breaker or a capable center, maybe the conversation changes. Given what he's proven on the ice so far, I think the Zegras deal looks far more appropriate.

 

[majormajor]

Since I doubt I'll be hired to replace Jarmo, it won't be me. But, it's not hard for me to imagine a new GM not wanting to invest major dollars and term in a second line winger that he didn't draft. If KJ proves to be a game breaker or a capable center, maybe the conversation changes. Given what he's proven on the ice so far, I think the Zegras deal looks far more appropriate.

GMs are paid to look ahead. They have to look at a player and have a good idea of what they'll become.

You think Zegras is a case of just paying for results but I think it's Verbeek looking at Zegras and not being optimistic that he's going to be an actually great player. If our GM sees KJ becoming an actually great player, he should try and get a long term deal settled before the price gets too high.

 

[BB88]

Since I doubt I'll be hired to replace Jarmo, it won't be me. But, it's not hard for me to imagine a new GM not wanting to invest major dollars and term in a second line winger that he didn't draft. If KJ proves to be a game breaker or a capable center, maybe the conversation changes. Given what he's proven on the ice so far, I think the Zegras deal looks far more appropriate.

The worst mistake they can do is to line themselves up for all those 2nd/3rd contracts at the same time at a time they should be contending.
Smart teams make smart bets early on.

Going bridge path can easily lead them retooling years earlier than needed to because they’ll have no money for depth

I don’t know why anyways have so little faith for KJ, I guess the sky is falling again

 

[stevo61]

The worst mistake they can do is to line themselves up for all those 2nd/3rd contracts at the same time at a time they should be contending.
Smart teams make smart bets early on.

Going bridge path can easily lead them retooling years earlier than needed to because they’ll have no money for depth

I don’t know why anyways have so little faith for KJ, I guess the sky is falling again

Cant be making bets on 178lb wingers, are you crazy? Now 240lb center Voronkov is a guy we gotta lock up quick

 

[koteka]

What a good team would do is figure out if we have centers in the room or not.

One of the reasons I wanted new leadership is I want nobody to have any biases because they drafted a guy.

If KJ is a center or if KJ and Laine together can do everything a center does, great. But if leadership thinks KJ isn’t a center, then we have another talented and soon to be expensive wing. You need to have have real balls and then make a trade to get a center. For example, what would the Sens add to Pinto to get KJ? You don’t give a guy like KJ away, but you need to find a way to get a guy who could become a 2nd line center.

(I am not advocating trading KJ. I am advocating for leadership that can successfully determine what are guys can do, and making sure we have centers being developed. I am also not advocating making an obviously stupid trade like the Jeff Carter trade.)

 

[stevo61]

What a good team would do is figure out if we have centers in the room or not.

One of the reasons I wanted new leadership is I want nobody to have any biases because they drafted a guy.

If KJ is a center or if KJ and Laine together can do everything a center does, great. But if leadership thinks KJ isn’t a center, then we have another talented and soon to be expensive wing. You need to have have real balls and then make a trade to get a center. For example, what would the Sens add to Pinto to get KJ? You don’t give a guy like KJ away, but you need to find a way to get a guy who could become a 2nd line center.

(I am not advocating trading KJ. I am advocating for leadership that can successfully determine what are guys can do, and making sure we have centers being developed. I am also not advocating making an obviously stupid trade like the Jeff Carter trade.)

Smart teams also dont rush things. We arent a contender looking for the final piece, there is no reason to trade Johnson regardless of position right now unless its an upgrade instead of a downgrade like your scenario. If its Johnson++ for Petersson then sign me up, if not let guys show us what they are instead of guessing. I dont think Winnipeg pictured Laine as a center option but here we are

 

[MoeBartoli]

It’s quite possible we have the center positions sorted out with Fantilli/Laine as the top 6 centers and Boone as 3C. if so, wings are a worthwhile focus.

As to KJ specifically, I’m with MM in seeing hm as a Datsyuk type player. Whether he reaches that level I don’t know. But the comparison means that some of us view him as a highly skilled, high level player.

 

[BB88]

Cant be making bets on 178lb wingers, are you crazy? Now 240lb center Voronkov is a guy we gotta lock up quick

Welcome back to the rock age.

For me KJ would be an easy bet moving forward, as long as he keep playing to his standards/expectations this season

 

[stevo61]

Welcome back to the rock age.

For me KJ would be an easy bet moving forward, as long as he keep playing to his standards/expectations this season

Sarcasm my friend. Sarcasm

 

[BB88]

Sarcasm my friend. Sarcasm

I realized that by your side, not by the one my original post was for

 

[Farmboy Patty]

Smart teams also dont rush things. We arent a contender looking for the final piece, there is no reason to trade Johnson regardless of position right now unless its an upgrade instead of a downgrade like your scenario. If its Johnson++ for Petersson then sign me up, if not let guys show us what they are instead of guessing. I dont think Winnipeg pictured Laine as a center option but here we are

Also IF the need would arise to trade for a high end C (which are rarely available) the trade pieces would have to have value. KJ as a trade piece on a short deal < KJ on a long deal. If he’s good, lock the kid down for market value asap if he keeps progressing this season (which he certainly will).

 

[majormajor]

What a good team would do is figure out if we have centers in the room or not.

One of the reasons I wanted new leadership is I want nobody to have any biases because they drafted a guy.

If KJ is a center or if KJ and Laine together can do everything a center does, great. But if leadership thinks KJ isn’t a center, then we have another talented and soon to be expensive wing. You need to have have real balls and then make a trade to get a center. For example, what would the Sens add to Pinto to get KJ? You don’t give a guy like KJ away, but you need to find a way to get a guy who could become a 2nd line center.

(I am not advocating trading KJ. I am advocating for leadership that can successfully determine what are guys can do, and making sure we have centers being developed. I am also not advocating making an obviously stupid trade like the Jeff Carter trade.)

This is greatly overemphasizing the differences between winger and center. If you have an elite playdriver who runs transition play then it doesn't matter whether you line up at center or wing. Sticking an elite play driving wing next to a garden variety center like Boone (or maybe someday Sillinger) will drive better results than a solid 2C next to a 2W.

I'm not saying KJ is Panarin but we stuck prime Panarin next to rookie Dubois, who was at that point no better than a 2C, and got one of the best lines in hockey.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

This is greatly overemphasizing the differences between winger and center. If you have an elite playdriver who runs transition play then it doesn't matter whether you line up at center or wing. Sticking an elite play driving wing next to a garden variety center like Boone (or maybe someday Sillinger) will drive better results than a solid 2C next to a 2W.

I'm not saying KJ is Panarin but we stuck prime Panarin next to rookie Dubois, who was at that point no better than a 2C, and got one of the best lines in hockey.

Exactly - a play driving F is a play driving forward, no matter the position on paper. The game flows and this isn’t table hockey

 

[koteka]

This is greatly overemphasizing the differences between winger and center. If you have an elite playdriver who runs transition play then it doesn't matter whether you line up at center or wing. Sticking an elite play driving wing next to a garden variety center like Boone (or maybe someday Sillinger) will drive better results than a solid 2C next to a 2W.

I'm not saying KJ is Panarin but we stuck prime Panarin next to rookie Dubois, who was at that point no better than a 2C, and got one of the best lines in hockey.

I don’t disagree. Which is why I said if he and Laine together get the job done it is great.

I do have an issue with people pencilling him in as a center and a 70 point scorer and saying he should get an 8 year extension. This team is going to be bad again. I am just hoping we have guys emerge that look like they can play center (or do the tasks that centers do). Last year at this time everyone was talking about how awesome Sillinger was going to be and how many points we were going to score.

 

[squashmaple]

I’ve got to say I did not have “negging KJ and talking ourselves out of signing him longterm because actually he is nothing more than a common winger” on my bingo card. What is wrong with you people?

 

[Farmboy Patty]

I’ve got to say I did not have “negging KJ and talking ourselves out of signing him longterm because actually he is nothing more than a common winger” on my bingo card. What is wrong with you people?

It’s a mindset, some kind of fear of success after years of mediocrity and disappointment. It’s not rational, but luckily it usually goes away after a period of success.

 

[koteka]

I’ve got to say I did not have “negging KJ and talking ourselves out of signing him longterm because actually he is nothing more than a common winger” on my bingo card. What is wrong with you people?

Whose negging him? I want to see growth this season that shows he has center skills. I also want to see a front office that is ahead of the curve on analyzing his abilities because they get to be around him all the time. What I don’t want is an outcome where in 3 years he is obviously a wing and overpaid and we still don’t have the center problem solved. If that is the case, it isn’t a knock on KJ. It is a failure by CBJ management.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Just so nobody is caught off guard or surprised, this thread will be closing on Sunday when the roster becomes official. We’ll then open up the roster discussion/like combos thread.

Anyway, continue.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

In case anyone missed is, Ottawa put Egor Sokolov on waivers today. I'm sure there is not room for him but Ottawa did swoop in and draft him after he looked good in CBJ development camp invites.

 

[CBJx614]

Whose negging him? I want to see growth this season that shows he has center skills. I also want to see a front office that is ahead of the curve on analyzing his abilities because they get to be around him all the time. What I don’t want is an outcome where in 3 years he is obviously a wing and overpaid and we still don’t have the center problem solved. If that is the case, it isn’t a knock on KJ. It is a failure by CBJ management.

If Fantilli is as he's hyped up to be it might not matter whether KJ is winger or center. Also by the 25-26 season the cap is estimated to rise almost 10-12M up to 92M, 8M will be the new 5-6M. Getting him, Jiricek and some of the other young guns locked up to a sweetheart deal BEFORE that happens could be absolutely game changing for our cap situation moving forward.

How and why the NHL salary cap could still see a larger increase this offseason

The cap is expected to go up by $10 to $12 million over the next three years but only $1 million for 2023-24. Can the increase be smoothed?

theathletic.com

 

[koteka]

If Fantilli is as he's hyped up to be it might not matter whether KJ is winger or center. Also by the 25-26 season the cap is estimated to rise almost 10-12M up to 92M, 8M will be the new 5-6M. Getting him, Jiricek and some of the other young guns locked up to a sweetheart deal BEFORE that happens could be absolutely game changing for our cap situation moving forward.

I say let the season play out a little before we think of signing contract extensions. This time last year everyone had Sillinger penciled in as a 2c for the next 10 seasons, and now he is a complete afterthought. Heck, there is a decent chance the GM is gone in a year. Let’s have the new guy come in and make his choices and not have his hands tied by Jarmo. Or if the team has a good season and Jarmo gets a contract extension, let’s let Jarmo-with-added-job-security make some decisions instead of trying-to-save-his-job-Jarmo.

I am still skeptical about the cap given all the uncertainty with local tv deals.

 

[majormajor]

This time last year everyone had Sillinger penciled in as a 2c for the next 10 seasons, and now he is a complete afterthought.

Since you keep mentioning it, let's be clear that this isn't true.

 

[koteka]

Since you keep mentioning it, let's be clear that this isn't true.

Ok, 90% of Jackets fans.

Remember this from the first game last year:

Amazing Goal from Jackets’ Sillinger Wiped Out by Challenge

Blue Jackets forward Cole Sillinger scored an incredible goal against the Carolina Hurricanes that was disallowed after a Coach’s Challenge for offside.

scoutingtherefs.com

 

[BB88]

Whose negging him? I want to see growth this season that shows he has center skills. I also want to see a front office that is ahead of the curve on analyzing his abilities because they get to be around him all the time. What I don’t want is an outcome where in 3 years he is obviously a wing and overpaid and we still don’t have the center problem solved. If that is the case, it isn’t a knock on KJ. It is a failure by CBJ management.

What would you call an overpayment?

Let’s say he has a strong year and gets 8x8 and stays as a winger.

8M is not that special anymore for a winger and in 3 years time it’s regular money wity superstars in the 14-15M range.

For me if they could get him at 8M when you see him as a 1st line winger would be awesome value, if he turns into full time C then that would be one of the best steal contracts in the league

 

[koteka]

What would you call an overpayment?

Let’s say he has a strong year and gets 8x8 and stays as a winger.

8M is not that special anymore for a winger and in 3 years time it’s regular money wity superstars in the 14-15M range.

In a vacuum an $8 million wing is fine. But when you have a $9.8 million wing and an $8.8 million wing (if the Laine center experiment doesn’t work), then you have a huge percentage of your cap tied up in wings. That is where you get yourself in trouble.