Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
- Dec 15, 2014
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Disagree with caveat.
Important not to buy rentals.
Guys with term for a good price and fit our short and longer term objectives, go for it.
Speculation: Armchair GM 2024-25 Season, Craig Conroy's Can Do Calgary Flames
- Thread starter Bounces R Way
- Start date
Disagree with caveat.
Important not to buy rentals.
Guys with term for a good price and fit our short and longer term objectives, go for it.
Mobiandi
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2015
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Calgary will never struggle for vets. There will always be free agents looking for retirement contracts out in Alberta.
Disagree if you want but from everything being said Conroy is NOT looking to acquire the type of player this team needs a young elite level play driving center who will actually push the current forwards down the depth chart slotting them correctly.
Adding a Cozens type player does not actually do anything
Clearly you missed my point... or are just straight up ignoring it.
You claimed neither Kadri nor Coleman were core players on this team. That is straight up wrong. Naz is literally tied for the team lead in scoring. Coleman is 5th and sees more PK time than anyone other than Backlund. Coleman might not be a core player on a cup contender, but on this team he absolutely is and Kadri would be a core guy on almost any team.
Trading them would be a slap in the face to Wolf, Coronato, Zary, Bahl... etc because they have been instrumental in getting us to this point and trading guys with term away would just be a giant f*** you to them.
Ruining the goodwill of your young players is absolutely one of the worst things a team could do.
Some Other Flame
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- Dec 4, 2010
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Conroy had better not trade that NJ 1st rounder
Trading Coleman and Kadri in season won’t happen and shouldn’t happen. The team deserves to ride it out, but seriously if the Flames “core” is instrumental to getting the team to where they are then this offseason they all gotta go because this is a total mediocre team with a core not good enough to make them a real playoff contender but good enough to have really good trade value
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
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But let's say a player meeting that criteria pops up. Is Conroy supposed to say, "Nope. I'm not trading till the off season." No, he should be looking into those RFA at a great price that works well long term. If he can find more Frost + Farabee type trades, IMO he should do it.
If he can swap vets for younger guys with potential (downgrade now, upgrade later). He should consider it.
If someone calls about Coleman, but wants to move a project prospect with term and upside or a long term player option currently on IR, he has to consider it IMO. Doesn't mean he will decide to go forward with it, I'm saying he should consider it.
I'm saying don't trade for the sake of trading, but keep your ear to the ground for good value.
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
What you aren't getting is that none of the guys you are suggesting they move are rentals. Sure Bjorkstrand wasn't a rental either but Gourde absolutely is. Calgary isn't going to retain 50% on any of their multi year vets because that is a lot of actual money to pay someone not to play for you. On top of that it is equally as impossible to convince a 3rd team to retain for the exact same reason.
The types of moves you want to do are offseason moves when teams have a full idea of their cap structure for next season. You could probably argue a hockey trade type deal around Kadri for someone like Kotkaniemi or Mittelstadt but that's about it. Teams simply do not have the cap space to take on full multi year deals without significant cap coming back. Florida got Jones at a bargain cap hit, had to move out Knight and place Tkachuk on LTIR to make it work now, and will still probably lose Ekblad in the summer due to constraints.
What do you think we would need to add to Rasmus to get Brandt Clarke? I think this could be the basis of a deal that makes sense for both teams and is good for us in the long term without sacrificing too much in the short term.
For LA, kopitar and Doughty are aging and adding Rasmus at a great cap hit will give them a big boost these next two years. We could also retain or add a pick and/or prospect to help balance their ages.
And for us, Clarke could be the perfect replacement for Rasmus long-term and has potential to be a top-pairing dman for 10+ years. I’ve been high on him since his draft year and think he would fit really well with Bahl’s style of play. It may hurt our team this year, but if Rasmus might not re-sign here I think this is the way to maximize his value.
Clarke is obviously not as good as Rasmus yet, but with Rasmus having a down year I think the downgrade in the short term won’t be as bad in the short term as people think. I think Clarke could step in as a #3/4 immediately, he’s that good when paired with a defensively responsible partner.
It would just come down to cost. Rasmus+2nd? Morin? One of our winger prospects? Is that not enough?
For LA, kopitar and Doughty are aging and adding Rasmus at a great cap hit will give them a big boost these next two years. We could also retain or add a pick and/or prospect to help balance their ages.
And for us, Clarke could be the perfect replacement for Rasmus long-term and has potential to be a top-pairing dman for 10+ years. I’ve been high on him since his draft year and think he would fit really well with Bahl’s style of play. It may hurt our team this year, but if Rasmus might not re-sign here I think this is the way to maximize his value.
Clarke is obviously not as good as Rasmus yet, but with Rasmus having a down year I think the downgrade in the short term won’t be as bad in the short term as people think. I think Clarke could step in as a #3/4 immediately, he’s that good when paired with a defensively responsible partner.
It would just come down to cost. Rasmus+2nd? Morin? One of our winger prospects? Is that not enough?
Bounces R Way
Registered User
This is Rob Blake Connie will be sweet talking too. I wouldn't be adding shit.
I don't mind Clarke at all but I would prefer a high end fwd prospect(preferably a natural C) that hasn't hit NHL ice in a potential Rasmus trade. I would also wait until the draft to deal #4 if that's going to be the decision. He's having a pretty terrible year honestly. There's going to be renewed pressure on some of these rebuilding teams to improve substantially and Andersson would make a good target for a young team needing some more veteran stability.
I just don’t know if Rasmus as a rental has enough value to land Clarke. I could be wrong, but I feel like getting Rasmus now for 1.5 years and 2 playoff runs is significantly more valuable than him as a rental. If a prospect of Clarke’s calibre is available for Rasmus (who will probably be looking for a huge contract next year), I think you need to take it now
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
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My concern is that the kings don't need RD right now. They've been benching Clarke. There's also a risk a move like this hurts both teams vs improves both.
I feel like dobson might be more likely than Clarke for RD if Lou is thinking he doesn't want to pay dobson's next contract. But Lou won't undervalue dobson like Blake may for Clarke.
Nobody's trading a Clarke caliber prospect, much less a young NHLer for Ras. With the extra year, his value is something 1st, decent prospect, with legitimate depth potential and a cap dump. The prospect will vary depending on the dump.
Zirakzigil
The Global Hangman wishes he could be
Lord love a duck... People need to get over this idea that Conroy is trading vets in the next 36hrs. There is value in gunning for the playoffs for Coronato, Zary and Wolf. Conroy has stated multiple times hes not moving people who want to be here and Weegs, Coleman, Kadri and Ras specifically. Maybe, MAYBE in the summer Ras gets moved. Time to move on from that mountain, youve died on it and got run over.
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
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it's not about asset management though, they aren't screaming to trade this guys because their values are depreciating. They want the team to lose ad trading them would result in more losses.
Bounces R Way
Registered User
Ras has over 200pts, is still in his prime, and makes less then 5 million dollars per. Even with how shit he's been this year he's worth a tidy sum now, will also be in June, and will be again next spring. That is unless the Flames do something Flamesy and give him some 7-8 year abomination contract.
Clarke may be worth that much, especially on HF, but I think in the real world these unproven RFAs don't hold the kind of value fans think they should. I'd be fine if he's the main piece in a Andersson deal but I wouldn't be attaching anything else significant to land him.
What's kinda nuts is even though they're 12th OA right now and 10 teams would need to pass them for them to fall that low.... they are still only 8 points up on Boston who currently sits 11th last.
And us, we're 16th OA and just as close to 7th OA as 6th last.
The parity this year is really incredible.
Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
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This is spot on.
I also think people need to take a step back and look at this fully. How often do players with multiple years of term get dealt at the deadline? Rarely? You get your random Hertl type deals every so often, but more than likely these are summer trades.
The only way Nazem Kadri gets dealt from Calgary, is if this summer he comes to management and asks for it or in his exit meeting makes it apparent that he'd like a few more shots at a cup before he calls it career. Huberdeau is untradeable essentially, unless Calgary wants to hold a bunch of cash for several years (they won't).
Folks just need to enjoy this ride. This is completely goalie fueled, and we're not trading Wolf anytime soon. This team statistically should be one of the bottom clubs in the entire NHL, but the netminding is keeping it afloat. It reminds me of 2015 in a lot of ways, simply the opposite of what that ended up being (then we were scoring goals we shouldn't have been scoring, and today we're getting saves we shouldn't be getting). Well, what happened in 2016 when reality hit? The 6th overall pick.
This isn't a bad year to try to make some noise anyway, the draft is shallow, there might not be any players here that end up top 10-15 players in the league anyway. Like seriously guys, there are two guys projected to go in the top of the draft who've played less than 20 games this year. That seems very red-flaggy to me; it honestly seems closest to the 2020 draft where the value in the draft was found all over. The top two picks in the draft are clearly not the best players from this draft; in fact Connor Zary (picked at 24) is producing at the same clip as picks 1 and 2.
Rasmus is a summer deal unless someone within the next 36 hours gives Conroy exactly what he's looking for. He'll be traded the second Calgary finds out he's going to be looking for 8.5+M on a 8 year deal to stay here.
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
- Dec 15, 2014
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High teens or low 20s to Montreal while drafting with NJD at around 11-12 ish (protection cut off) in a vacuum should be a win.
But it's a specific scenario that should be dripping with extra bonus things to laugh about.
It is, but the losses are the silver lining to some of them, but they fail to remember if our pick is high, Montreal gets it anyways. Going on a run and gifting Montreal a shit pick is actually funnier and more satisfying than gifting them a top pick.
The asset management concerns is that Kadri or Coleman could suddenly become valueless again. Which I kinda get, but it seems our situation is balanced for asset value. Get assets for those guys, gift higher value assets to Montreal. Don't get assets for those guys, gift lower value assets to Montreal.
NJD's pick is pure gravy right now. We might be getting a dream scenario (drafting damn high and giving Montreal damn low AND playoffs) and there's still complaints. This is the perfect year to be unsustainable and next year is a perfect year for regression. All this while keeping culture strong so that we don't end up in a Buffalo style death spiral.
You're making me feel better about this season and I'm already thinking it's been well past expectations so far (minus me being ridiculously sick so ridiculously often and not being able to watch as much as I'd like).
Not just big picture, but patience as well. Zary was called a disappointment for a while. And now, as you said, he's performing at the same clip as picks 1 and 2. I haven't dug too deep, but this draft feels like a mixture of 2018 and 2020 to me. A combination of value across the board (2020), and a seemingly sudden decline at a certain point (pick 12 for 2018). IMO we likely get a good swing with our top pick, the second pick would be a good candidate for a split/trade/move to 2026 draft.
This is a very strange year, but on paper, IMO it's turning out better than imagined possible.
Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
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Sorry to hear you've been ill. That sucks. Hope all is better or on the path.
We seem to narrow our focus way too much as fans, I see it even worse on X versus here (and we can get bad here). There's no right or wrong answer, but the 20,000 foot view of this team is that clearly unless goaltending just stops, they won't be in a position to recoup that top 10 pick from Montreal anyway. If they win in Dallas tonight, that Murder's row will end up 3-2-1, which would tell us Calgary can grind out some wins even against decent clubs.
Again, nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing this team can do in the next 36 hours will change the trajectory of this season. Unless they want to unload Wolf (and then be on the decades search for their elite #1 since Kipper) there's nothing this club can do that'll have us go 5-15-1 in the next 21 games; and there's nothing this club can do that'll have us go 15-5-1 either. This team will go somewhere in the 13-9-4 range and be in the WC2 slot.
Flames Fanatic
Mediocre
Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
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Correct.
If Conroy wants to break Wolf's legs like a bookie from a 1970's movie, then you stand correct.
