Speculation: Armchair GM 2024-25 Season, Craig Conroy's Can Do Calgary Flames

[Darth Vladar]

Ironically this is probably the most flooded the markets been in terms of available centres. Not doing the deepest of dives here, but players that could probably be had if you met the right price are:
Miller
Petterson
Barzal
Cozens
Granlund
Zegras
Turcotte
Mittlestadt
Mercer
Bolded are the right age range, italics shoot right. If you’re looking to add at C this is the perfect time.

Cozens should still be the guy for Conny to take a swing at imho. Young, big, has already been a 30-goal scorer in this league, nearly 50% at the dot this year, and under contract until 2030. He could be a decent contingency plan for when Backs inevitably rides off into the sunset. Zary, Kadri, Cozens, Kerins down the middle for the relative short-term doesn’t seem too bad.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Agree to disagree. How many 26 year old 2C options do you see on the market right now? 3Cs even? Every team in the league wants centre depth, 20 teams was being conservative.

And yes you answered your own question - only teams looking to contend would be in on Kadri. How many contending teams does he make sense for? How many would he waive to? You might not like it, and Kadri is the better player today, but Mittlstadt is a more valuable trade asset. More interest teams = more and better offers.

8 years is significant age gap. And Kadri being signed for longer isn't an advantage in this case. Mitts played great for about 40 games in an Avalanche uniform and has 5 points in the last 5 games. Who knows why his play took a dip (maybe an injury being nursed), but he's a very talented player. Kadri just adds a dimension to the Avs that they lack and is a known commodity in Colorado. Mitt' style is redundant and we can't bank on his consistency.

In short, I , nor the Avs, would trade Mitts for Kadri straight up. I doubt many people would across this board.

I think you are missing the point. Your entire argument for Mittelstadt is his age. Again I am sure a bunch of teams would be more than willing to take a flyer on him. He's in the same boat as a guy like Kotkaniemi, Frost, and Hayton. Hell, can probably throw Dach in there too. Teams chasing a cup aren't going to be spamming your phone for him but a team looking to retool would almost certainly kick tires.

The difference is Kadri is a win now guy. I'm sure teams like Winnipeg, Toronto, and Carolina would absolutely be asking about Kadri.

In short I wouldn't trade Kadri straight up for Mittelstadt. Kadri's been a good leader and mentor figure for the team, and with the rising cap his contract is hardly a burden. On the other hand Mittelstadt is very mediocre, he doesn't solve the Flames lack of 1C issue and instead just forces that job onto Zary.

There probably isn't a deal to be made here if you are going to try and sell us an inferior player and expect us to add

 

[DomBarr]

Agree to disagree. How many 26 year old 2C options do you see on the market right now? 3Cs even? Every team in the league wants centre depth, 20 teams was being conservative.

And yes you answered your own question - only teams looking to contend would be in on Kadri. How many contending teams does he make sense for? How many would he waive to? You might not like it, and Kadri is the better player today, but Mittlstadt is a more valuable trade asset. More interest teams = more and better offers.

8 years is significant age gap. And Kadri being signed for longer isn't an advantage in this case. Mitts played great for about 40 games in an Avalanche uniform and has 5 points in the last 5 games. Who knows why his play took a dip (maybe an injury being nursed), but he's a very talented player. Kadri just adds a dimension to the Avs that they lack and is a known commodity in Colorado. Mitt' style is redundant and we can't bank on his consistency.

In short, I , nor the Avs, would trade Mitts for Kadri straight up. I doubt many people would across this board.

34 YO 2C Kadri is just plain better at all facets of the game of hockey than 26YO middle 6 C Mittlestadt and most likely will remain so for the duration of Mittlestadt's contract. I would be more disappointed with Calgary for trading for Mittlestadt than I was when they signed Kadri to begin with and I really hated that signing.

 

[Figgy44]

Cozens should still be the guy for Conny to take a swing at imho. Young, big, has already been a 30-goal scorer in this league, nearly 50% at the dot this year, and under contract until 2030. He could be a decent contingency plan for when Backs inevitably rides off into the sunset. Zary, Kadri, Cozens, Kerins down the middle for the relative short-term doesn’t seem too bad.

IMO I'd like the idea of acquiring Cozens as a winger and if he figures out C, bonus.

I wouldn't aim at him to be a surefire primary guy in the middle 6 with no contingency plan if he continues to have issues figuring it out.

 

[RasmusAndersson]

Cozens should still be the guy for Conny to take a swing at imho. Young, big, has already been a 30-goal scorer in this league, nearly 50% at the dot this year, and under contract until 2030. He could be a decent contingency plan for when Backs inevitably rides off into the sunset. Zary, Kadri, Cozens, Kerins down the middle for the relative short-term doesn’t seem too bad.

I also would like Cozens and think he makes the most sense but don’t know if we have what it would take to get him. The only real asset we have (other than picks and prospects that we need to keep) is Rasmus, and I think I prefer to trade Rasmus for futures to try and get us into the top-10 of the draft this year or next (maybe for a 1st+ to a team like Detroit or Philly or Utah).

If we can get Cozens without giving up Rasmus though I’d definitely be interested

 

[Freaky Styley]

34 YO 2C Kadri is just plain better at all facets of the game of hockey than 26YO middle 6 C Mittlestadt and most likely will remain so for the duration of Mittlestadt's contract. I would be more disappointed with Calgary for trading for Mittlestadt than I was when they signed Kadri to begin with and I really hated that signing.

I think you are missing the point. Your entire argument for Mittelstadt is his age. Again I am sure a bunch of teams would be more than willing to take a flyer on him. He's in the same boat as a guy like Kotkaniemi, Frost, and Hayton. Hell, can probably throw Dach in there too. Teams chasing a cup aren't going to be spamming your phone for him but a team looking to retool would almost certainly kick tires.

The difference is Kadri is a win now guy. I'm sure teams like Winnipeg, Toronto, and Carolina would absolutely be asking about Kadri.

In short I wouldn't trade Kadri straight up for Mittelstadt. Kadri's been a good leader and mentor figure for the team, and with the rising cap his contract is hardly a burden. On the other hand Mittelstadt is very mediocre, he doesn't solve the Flames lack of 1C issue and instead just forces that job onto Zary.

There probably isn't a deal to be made here if you are going to try and sell us an inferior player and expect us to add

No I think you're both missing the point. The argument is that Mittlestadt has more trade value league-wide. I'm not why you don't think that's valid - he just returned Byram. Do you think Kadri would return a Byram-level player?

Of course contenders would have more interest in Kadri. But that's only a handful of teams. The big thing you're missing is Kadri's NTC - what if that includes 1 or 2 of those contenders? You're left negotiating with 3 teams.

If you think Kadri would return a Byram-level player I think you'd be disappointed - so sure, keep him, and management probably will. Very few teams want to pay Kadri for his contract duration and you're likely only going to return picks/prospects/cap dump. People on HF are obsessed with prospects so maybe you think a mid-late 1st is more valuable than a guy like Mittlestadt, but that's not the case.

A Kadri trade would signal a focus on next season. The proposed deal also includes Ritchie who should be able to make the jump next year, so you'd get a 2C and potential 3C in the deal who are 8 years younger. This gives Calgary management the opportunity to pursue another top C in the offseason as well (Cozens?) and makes them worse this year to give them a better pick and potentially select a guy in the draft.

If fans/management would rather keep Kadri for insulation, I get it. But him being a better player at 34 doesn't make him worth more as a trade asset league-wide. May I remind you 7-8 years ago Kadri's career high in points was 60. Mittlestadt has hit 59 and 57 the last 2 seasons respectively. I get scoring is up but he did it at a younger age than Naz. Let's not act like he doesn't have similar potential to breakout - he's just hit a 20 game slump this season for whatever reason.

 

[Darth Vladar]

I also would like Cozens and think he makes the most sense but don’t know if we have what it would take to get him. The only real asset we have (other than picks and prospects that we need to keep) is Rasmus, and I think I prefer to trade Rasmus for futures to try and get us into the top-10 of the draft this year or next (maybe for a 1st+ to a team like Detroit or Philly or Utah).

If we can get Cozens without giving up Rasmus though I’d definitely be interested

You and I are pretty much on the same page. It seems logical that Raz would be going back the other way in any deal for Cozens, but I’d prefer to cop the highest 1st rounder possible if they have to move him at all. It looks like Buffalo will be drafting in the top-5 this year, and I can’t see them coughing that up in any deal for Raz, but perhaps they could be convinced to part with their 2026 1st. There is a young RHD in the Sabres system that I’ve had my eye on, a 4th rounder from last year named Simon-Pier Brunet, 6’2”, 196 lbs. I think I’d be open to moving Raz for he and the Sabres ‘26 1st straight up. Not sure what else it would take from the Flames end to have them include Cozens as part of the deal, but I still don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility.

 

[crackdown44]

Rutherford and Alvin definitely need to keep telling the media how much Pettersson and Miller hate each other and how the relationship can’t be fixed. That is definitely how you maximize value

 

[Lunatik]

Rutherford and Alvin definitely need to keep telling the media how much Pettersson and Miller hate each other and how the relationship can’t be fixed. That is definitely how you maximize value

loose lips sink ships and the Canucks ship is going down like the Titanic

 

[DomBarr]

No I think you're both missing the point. The argument is that Mittlestadt has more trade value league-wide. I'm not why you don't think that's valid - he just returned Byram. Do you think Kadri would return a Byram-level player?

Of course contenders would have more interest in Kadri. But that's only a handful of teams. The big thing you're missing is Kadri's NTC - what if that includes 1 or 2 of those contenders? You're left negotiating with 3 teams.

If you think Kadri would return a Byram-level player I think you'd be disappointed - so sure, keep him, and management probably will. Very few teams want to pay Kadri for his contract duration and you're likely only going to return picks/prospects/cap dump. People on HF are obsessed with prospects so maybe you think a mid-late 1st is more valuable than a guy like Mittlestadt, but that's not the case.

A Kadri trade would signal a focus on next season. The proposed deal also includes Ritchie who should be able to make the jump next year, so you'd get a 2C and potential 3C in the deal who are 8 years younger. This gives Calgary management the opportunity to pursue another top C in the offseason as well (Cozens?) and makes them worse this year to give them a better pick and potentially select a guy in the draft.

If fans/management would rather keep Kadri for insulation, I get it. But him being a better player at 34 doesn't make him worth more as a trade asset league-wide. May I remind you 7-8 years ago Kadri's career high in points was 60. Mittlestadt has hit 59 and 57 the last 2 seasons respectively. I get scoring is up but he did it at a younger age than Naz. Let's not act like he doesn't have similar potential to breakout - he's just hit a 20 game slump this season for whatever reason.

you are missing what is being said...The Flames would NOT trade Kadri for Mittlestadt straight up I don't really GAF about what the other teams would offer in return for Mittlestadt. He is not a right shot center, he is not under 25 and it is more likely he has hit his ceiling than it is he breaks out to be a PPG top line center. so he does not fit. Those facts make your proposal of Andersson AND Kadri for Mittlestadt, Ritchie and a 2nd laughable.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

No I think you're both missing the point. The argument is that Mittlestadt has more trade value league-wide. I'm not why you don't think that's valid - he just returned Byram. Do you think Kadri would return a Byram-level player?

Of course contenders would have more interest in Kadri. But that's only a handful of teams. The big thing you're missing is Kadri's NTC - what if that includes 1 or 2 of those contenders? You're left negotiating with 3 teams.

If you think Kadri would return a Byram-level player I think you'd be disappointed - so sure, keep him, and management probably will. Very few teams want to pay Kadri for his contract duration and you're likely only going to return picks/prospects/cap dump. People on HF are obsessed with prospects so maybe you think a mid-late 1st is more valuable than a guy like Mittlestadt, but that's not the case.

A Kadri trade would signal a focus on next season. The proposed deal also includes Ritchie who should be able to make the jump next year, so you'd get a 2C and potential 3C in the deal who are 8 years younger. This gives Calgary management the opportunity to pursue another top C in the offseason as well (Cozens?) and makes them worse this year to give them a better pick and potentially select a guy in the draft.

If fans/management would rather keep Kadri for insulation, I get it. But him being a better player at 34 doesn't make him worth more as a trade asset league-wide. May I remind you 7-8 years ago Kadri's career high in points was 60. Mittlestadt has hit 59 and 57 the last 2 seasons respectively. I get scoring is up but he did it at a younger age than Naz. Let's not act like he doesn't have similar potential to breakout - he's just hit a 20 game slump this season for whatever reason.

No I think you're both missing the point. The argument is that Mittlestadt has more trade value league-wide. I'm not why you don't think that's valid - he just returned Byram. Do you think Kadri would return a Byram-level player?

Of course contenders would have more interest in Kadri. But that's only a handful of teams. The big thing you're missing is Kadri's NTC - what if that includes 1 or 2 of those contenders? You're left negotiating with 3 teams.

If you think Kadri would return a Byram-level player I think you'd be disappointed - so sure, keep him, and management probably will. Very few teams want to pay Kadri for his contract duration and you're likely only going to return picks/prospects/cap dump. People on HF are obsessed with prospects so maybe you think a mid-late 1st is more valuable than a guy like Mittlestadt, but that's not the case.

A Kadri trade would signal a focus on next season. The proposed deal also includes Ritchie who should be able to make the jump next year, so you'd get a 2C and potential 3C in the deal who are 8 years younger. This gives Calgary management the opportunity to pursue another top C in the offseason as well (Cozens?) and makes them worse this year to give them a better pick and potentially select a guy in the draft.

If fans/management would rather keep Kadri for insulation, I get it. But him being a better player at 34 doesn't make him worth more as a trade asset league-wide. May I remind you 7-8 years ago Kadri's career high in points was 60. Mittlestadt has hit 59 and 57 the last 2 seasons respectively. I get scoring is up but he did it at a younger age than Naz. Let's not act like he doesn't have similar potential to breakout - he's just hit a 20 game slump this season for whatever reason.

He was traded for Byram about a year ago but ask yourself this, does it not raise a red flag that he's already being shopped again? Do you genuinely believe that Buffalo would undo that trade right now?

So simply put, as of right now I do not believe Mittelstadt would return a Byram level player in a trade. I don't believe anybody is going to just give you a full refund.

Lets say Chicago decides to make an offer for Mittelstadt. I don't think they would offer you much more than Toronto's 2025 1st.

Lets use another example completely then. What do you think is the value difference between Kadri and Kotkaniemi? Do you think in a player swap Calgary would have to add or Carolina? And how much?

 

[crackdown44]

Man you guys are being mean we rarely get visitors and it was a decent proposal. Now he’s never gonna come back

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Man you guys are being mean we rarely get visitors and it was a decent proposal. Now he’s never gonna come back

I don't think any of what I've said has been rude or mean at all

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Strange takes in this thread.

It’s a great proposal because Ritchie is one of the top prospects in hockey and is a C. He legitimately could turn into a number one C IMO. Personally I would have Ritchie in a tier with Parekh, Buuim, etc. those are the kinds of players you can build around, and are exactly the types of players the Flames should be trying to find for vets.

Mittlestadt could also return to form and is a good buy low option.

 

[Mobiandi]

Rutherford and Alvin definitely need to keep telling the media how much Pettersson and Miller hate each other and how the relationship can’t be fixed. That is definitely how you maximize value

I don’t understand how Aquilini can see this going on and keep either of them or the coach employed. Their whole job is to manage player relationships and at worst try to keep things cordial even if they are strained

 

[Lunatik]

Strange takes in this thread.

It’s a great proposal because Ritchie is one of the top prospects in hockey and is a C. He legitimately could turn into a number one C IMO. Personally I would have Ritchie in a tier with Parekh, Buuim, etc. those are the kinds of players you can build around, and are exactly the types of players the Flames should be trying to find for vets.

Mittlestadt could also return to form and is a good buy low option.

I think it's a good proposal, but not great; especially when you break it down.

That said, I don't think Colorado would move Ritchie. I think there is a far better chance of Winnipeg giving up Lucius or Yager.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that the Avs would be willing to take Kadri back IF Landeskog is confirmed as not back permanently. Then it's an easy in/out math wise.

I don't think they move Ritchie for much, if anything. Every time the Avs come up in a rumor it's "teams asked about Ritchie and were told firmly no". Even Andersson at 50%.

We just so rarely see actual top prospects moved. Not to say impossible, I just think it isn't as easy as we'd want it/hope it to be.

 

[Freaky Styley]

you are missing what is being said...The Flames would NOT trade Kadri for Mittlestadt straight up I don't really GAF about what the other teams would offer in return for Mittlestadt. He is not a right shot center, he is not under 25 and it is more likely he has hit his ceiling than it is he breaks out to be a PPG top line center. so he does not fit. Those facts make your proposal of Andersson AND Kadri for Mittlestadt, Ritchie and a 2nd laughable.

He's 26, hardly old or not in CGY's timeline. And as I showed Mitts outperformed Kadri vs. where he was in his career so far. There's no doubt he could still breakout and be a PPG player. I also said I would add a little more value after realizing Andersson wasn't a UFA. Miles Wood would also likely need to be involved if there's no retention, so it would be a bigger deal. But that's the base.

He was traded for Byram about a year ago but ask yourself this, does it not raise a red flag that he's already being shopped again? Do you genuinely believe that Buffalo would undo that trade right now?

So simply put, as of right now I do not believe Mittelstadt would return a Byram level player in a trade. I don't believe anybody is going to just give you a full refund.

Lets say Chicago decides to make an offer for Mittelstadt. I don't think they would offer you much more than Toronto's 2025 1st.

Lets use another example completely then. What do you think is the value difference between Kadri and Kotkaniemi? Do you think in a player swap Calgary would have to add or Carolina? And how much?

Not sure what Kotkaniemi has to do with anything. He is an inferior player (career high 43 points and on pace for a similar total) and has a larger contract. And if the Flames did target Kotkaniemi in a Kadri trade it means they like him. There wouldn't be much going the other way because of the 10 year difference. But Kotkaniemi is more of a 3C on a contender and that's why Carolina will be aggressive to upgrade. Not to mention Kotka only has 22pts in 69 playoff game vs Casey's 9 in 11. Much different age ranges and sample sizes but still a good edge to Casey

And neither team would undo the trade, Byram would still be on Colorado's 3rd pair. It's not even clear that he is being shopped, Avs fans just understand the team's window is small and we need more of a sure thing behind MacKinnon to compete this season. There' a good chance Mitts can regain his form from his first 40 games in an Avs sweater and the Avs are happy and stand pat. It's just a big unknown from a fan perspective of why he's struggling, but maybe with the recent moves he picks up his play. He's got 5pts in the last 5 games after all.

More than skill it's a move to bring back in another big personality that created a void with the Mikko trade. Kadri has swagger, is physical,shoots first, and is a known commodity in Colorado. Casey is talented but Avs have enough playmakers at the moment.

For reference:

Mitts first 20 games: 18 points
Mitts second 20 games: 7 points
Mitts last 9 games: 5 points (all in last 5

He's been streaky and had a scoring drought. He's not suddenly a bad player. Byram was also garbage in his time with the Sabres last year, so yes Mittlestadt's value hasn't changed much at all.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

He's 26, hardly old or not in CGY's timeline. And as I showed Mitts outperformed Kadri vs. where he was in his career so far. There's no doubt he could still breakout and be a PPG player. I also said I would add a little more value after realizing Andersson wasn't a UFA. Miles Wood would also likely need to be involved if there's no retention, so it would be a bigger deal. But that's the base.


Not sure what Kotkaniemi has to do with anything. He is an inferior player (career high 43 points and on pace for a similar total) and has a larger contract. And if the Flames did target Kotkaniemi in a Kadri trade it means they like him. There wouldn't be much going the other way because of the 10 year difference. But Kotkaniemi is more of a 3C on a contender and that's why Carolina will be aggressive to upgrade. Not to mention Kotka only has 22pts in 69 playoff game vs Casey's 9 in 11. Much different age ranges and sample sizes but still a good edge to Casey

And neither team would undo the trade, Byram would still be on Colorado's 3rd pair. It's not even clear that he is being shopped, Avs fans just understand the team's window is small and we need more of a sure thing behind MacKinnon to compete this season. There' a good chance Mitts can regain his form from his first 40 games in an Avs sweater and the Avs are happy and stand pat. It's just a big unknown from a fan perspective of why he's struggling, but maybe with the recent moves he picks up his play. He's got 5pts in the last 5 games after all.

More than skill it's a move to bring back in another big personality that created a void with the Mikko trade. Kadri has swagger, is physical,shoots first, and is a known commodity in Colorado. Casey is talented but Avs have enough playmakers at the moment.

For reference:

Mitts first 20 games: 18 points
Mitts second 20 games: 7 points
Mitts last 9 games: 5 points (all in last 5

He's been streaky and had a scoring drought. He's not suddenly a bad player. Byram was also garbage in his time with the Sabres last year, so yes Mittlestadt's value hasn't changed much at all.

I don't think we are going to agree on anything here. Better off asking the Nucks board what you would need to add to Mitts to get Miller

 

[Ace Rimmer]

It doesn't help that "cheap" was never said to be part of the equation. It was "age appropriate, right handed center".

Even ignoring "cheap" the list of those guys, combined with teams that would actually part with them, seems to be very, very small.

 

[Lunatik]

Even ignoring "cheap" the list of those guys, combined with teams that would actually part with them, seems to be very, very small.

Yes, absolutely. It gets far more attention than it should tbh. Yeah, Conroy is probably calling and working the phones and doing his due diligence, But I also don't think he's expecting to find a future #1C and many posters have their expectations too high, they also focus too much on the center being a RHS.

I suspect he's calling about names like Pettersen, Cozens, Mittlestadt, Kotkaniemi, Wright, Frost, McTavish, Norris, Sillinger, Chytil, Kasper, Pinto... etc.

 

[crackdown44]

Having a stacked RD pipeline is a great problem to have but man there’s a lot of rumours swirling about some really good young RD potentially wanting out. First Jiricek, then Nemec and now Clarke in LA

I refuse to believe the Kings are that dumb but it would be very on brand for them to move on from Clarke. Unfortunate that we don’t really have the pieces for any of these guys and even if we did they’re too similar to what we already have in the pipeline (albeit probably better than everything we have except Parekh)

 

[Figgy44]

Kotkaniemi seems like a very good player to target. With what Carolina is probably trying to do, I could see them trying to unload him to make room for other stuff.

Canes still probably adding to him to get rid of him? IIRC he also still has the 1/3 buyout?

Having a stacked RD pipeline is a great problem to have but man there’s a lot of rumours swirling about some really good young RD potentially wanting out. First Jiricek, then Nemec and now Clarke in LA

I refuse to believe the Kings are that dumb but it would be very on brand for them to move on from Clarke. Unfortunate that we don’t really have the pieces for any of these guys and even if we did they’re too similar to what we already have in the pipeline (albeit probably better than everything we have except Parekh)

LA is weird. If Clarke wants out, then Faber and Roy are the other RD who also left recently.

 

[Lunatik]

Kotkaniemi seems like a very good player to target. With what Carolina is probably trying to do, I could see them trying to unload him to make room for other stuff.

Canes still probably adding to him to get rid of him? IIRC he also still has the 1/3 buyout?

I don't think he was ever a buyout candidate, nor do I think he was ever going to be a cap dump. It was fans overreacting to a down season, teams don't tend to drop 23/24 year old centermen that had been a half a point per game player.

Unsurprisingly, he has bounced back to his 2022-23 pace.

 

[crackdown44]

Boqvist on waivers from Florida. Basically Barrie but probably better at this stage in his career. League minimum and RFA this summer

Might be worth a claim, could slide Weegar back to the left and play them together. He is kind of similar to what we have coming on the right side though, good offensive metrics but brutal defensively

I’d consider him as a stop gap, wouldn’t mind seeing what Huska can do with him either