The Flames are in a new to them sort of cap jail. Players making more than $1.8 M actually can’t be traded without cap hits being included in the return or added to the roster prior to the trade
Speculation: Armchair GM 2024-25 Season, Craig Conroy's Can Do Calgary Flames
- Thread starter Bounces R Way
- Start date
-
HFBoards is well aware that today is election day in the US. We ask respectfully to focus on hockey and not politics.
- Oct 12, 2012
- 57,785
- 9,839
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
At the deadline players are already roughly 80% paid out for the season, that 80% counts against the cap, and if you retain 50% on the trade you are essentially trading paying 90% of their seasons salary and 90% of their cap hit. In the case of someone like Kuzmenko, Calgary could in theory move him at the deadline without any returning cap hits because they will pay somewhere between 4.4-4.95M of his 5.5M cap hit
- Oct 12, 2012
- 57,785
- 9,839
based on the context of the recent posts, this was in relation t the Vladar suggestion
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
Fair, in that case I'll answer that one. Boston has Bussi so they won't be goalie hunting unless there is an injury
- Oct 12, 2012
- 57,785
- 9,839
To be clear, in my proposal it was a swap for Korpisalo, who is paid more than Vladar - so we were actually taking on a bit more Cap. That was the sweetener.
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
There is no chance IMO that Boston is more comfortable with Vladar than the Korpedo.
- Oct 12, 2012
- 57,785
- 9,839
looks like you were editing your post to add that during the time i saw it and replied
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
- Dec 15, 2014
- 13,857
- 9,171
Well, no. We just can't ship out roster players for futures as easily. Cap jail is you're screwed if you don't make a move (ie: Over the cap and need moves to be cap compliant).
If anything, it might give options for us to pry out certain pieces that would be more difficult to access in other situations.
Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
- 21,712
- 11,415
Lomberg had an interesting interview with Pat for radio yesterday. One thing he said really resonated with me.
Something along the lines of '5 years ago when I signed in Florida, we weren't talking about Stanley Cups; this team is a lot closer than people give us credit for.' He then went on to talk about him being fine that Calgary's projected to be a bottom feeder because they'll catch more teams sleeping at the wheel.
Honestly, I started thinking a bit, and in reality, Calgary isn't that far from opening another window of competition. Clearly Lomberg has to be positive for this season, but I think unless you are the most deluded of deluded fans we know what this year will look like for us. That all said, you put in a legit 1C on this roster. Like you get a Hagens and put him on this roster, things start to change and change rather quickly.
With Honzek looking more like a legit 1st rounder.
With Brzustewicz looking like a legit blue chip prospect.
With Pospisil and Zary looking like they're going to be real players in this league.
With Coronato turning the corner on being a regular.
With Parehk still to ascend.
With Wolf looking like he'll be a legit NHL goalie, with some big time upside.
Then with all the other guys they've taken who look like they could be real players (Gridin, Misa, Basha, Morin, Stromgren) you don't have to squint to see how they could come out of this rebuild looking like a legit club in short order.
Like would anyone be surprised if Calgary starts the season hot, cools off by November; is a really stinky team by February, sells off assets and then starts to pick it up again as we start infusing more youth?
Something along the lines of '5 years ago when I signed in Florida, we weren't talking about Stanley Cups; this team is a lot closer than people give us credit for.' He then went on to talk about him being fine that Calgary's projected to be a bottom feeder because they'll catch more teams sleeping at the wheel.
Honestly, I started thinking a bit, and in reality, Calgary isn't that far from opening another window of competition. Clearly Lomberg has to be positive for this season, but I think unless you are the most deluded of deluded fans we know what this year will look like for us. That all said, you put in a legit 1C on this roster. Like you get a Hagens and put him on this roster, things start to change and change rather quickly.
With Honzek looking more like a legit 1st rounder.
With Brzustewicz looking like a legit blue chip prospect.
With Pospisil and Zary looking like they're going to be real players in this league.
With Coronato turning the corner on being a regular.
With Parehk still to ascend.
With Wolf looking like he'll be a legit NHL goalie, with some big time upside.
Then with all the other guys they've taken who look like they could be real players (Gridin, Misa, Basha, Morin, Stromgren) you don't have to squint to see how they could come out of this rebuild looking like a legit club in short order.
Like would anyone be surprised if Calgary starts the season hot, cools off by November; is a really stinky team by February, sells off assets and then starts to pick it up again as we start infusing more youth?
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
- Dec 15, 2014
- 13,857
- 9,171
- Oct 12, 2012
- 57,785
- 9,839
Regarding Honzek, I always want to throw in that if he does play for the Wranglers this season and is paired with Kirkland as he has so far.... they could ease him into a center ice position as they are both C/LW, early in the year give Kirkland the tougher matchups and slowly let Honzo face tougher competition.
Why's everyone so high on Pelletier? he's ok, but.. he needs to physically fill into his man body yet. Coronato is way better at the current time.
In fairness, he's a PPG player in the AHL, so worth of a spot for sure. I think the time period will be short though.
Might be one of those guy who's always a top producer in the AHL, but just for some reason, never could put up numbers beyond the 4th line/call up in the NHL and there's thousands of those guys over the years.
In fairness, he's a PPG player in the AHL, so worth of a spot for sure. I think the time period will be short though.
Might be one of those guy who's always a top producer in the AHL, but just for some reason, never could put up numbers beyond the 4th line/call up in the NHL and there's thousands of those guys over the years.
Zegras is still a perfect add for the flames, young dynamic centre. Still not on a big contract with time to think about commitment. No risk at all.
I don't know who the ducks would want...?
Got alot of good wing and D prospects.
I don't know who the ducks would want...?
Got alot of good wing and D prospects.
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
Unlike Coronato, Pelletier has to pass through waivers t be sent down. Pelts playstyle is also much more suited for a bottom 6 role as a 2-way guy, which is essentially the only available slot on the roster right now. If the option is to play 1 or the other on the 4th line I'm playing Pelletier there. Coronato can go down and light up the AHL with our much improved Wranglers team.
Also so far in camp Coronato has played 1 extra game (the one in Seattle). But when they both played Pelts looked better of the 2 in Vancouver, which was clearly a much more up to NHL pace game.
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
My thesis last summer was that while everyone thought the Flames' situation with all those quality pending UFAs was a complete nightmare, I thought it was actually almost ideal for a new GM. Not only did it give Conroy the ability to go out and stockpile assets without too much difficulty, it also meant that the Flames had an avenue to bottom out much more quickly than teams who have to just wait out their veterans (like the Sharks for a while or the Flames with their Iggy core).
The Flames already had a nice balance of present and futures when Treliving left, and that group is coming up, being supplemented by the surge of assets acquired last year and now we'll be adding a lot more quantity of young talent over the next two drafts, including hopefully a crown jewel or two.
There is a lot to be optimistic about.
They currently have zero first line forwards and zero prospects with first line potential. Hagens is a good not great prospect so even if you are lucky enough to get him you are likely looking at 2 years before you can expect him to reach a first line level and wouldn't have anyone to do the heavy lifting.
Defensively I guess if you squint maybe Andersson is a first pairing guy, but not close to the level that contenders have for their best defenseman and who knows if he is even staying. I love Parekh as a prospect but he is going to take time and might be better as the 2nd best offensive stud on a team rather than a top #1 d that can play in all situations like all SC winners have.
I think even being super delusional it takes a massive amount of squinting to see this team being good anytime soon, and likely the team in the NHL furthest away from being a contender.
Tkachuk Norris
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2012
- 15,988
- 7,381
There is a lot to be excited about.
I’ve been saying Hunter B was a stud going back to Penticton last year when I thought he was the best player in that tournament.
I thought Zayne played really well the last few games for an 18 year old d. He just needs to get stronger and another year in jr is absolutely the right call.
Honzek has totally surprised me and looks like his ceiling is immense.
Coronato should be a solid 2nd line scorer. 25 g 30 apples type player.
We have a very good future goalie in Wolf.
Zary and Pospisil are going to have solid NHL careers.
Gridin and Basha really showed solid potential.
Kuznetsov and Solovyov are highly underrated dmen who could give us some physicality.
Battaglia, Misa, Lipinski, Morin, Grushnikov, Suniev, Stromgren, Mews, all look like they could be contributors down the line.
This team still needs an elite C prospect. McQueen, Misa, Ryabkin, Hagens, Frondell would really give this team a chance to be a solid contender in a few years. I also think they need a LH defensive d who can shut down the cycle, skate and move pucks like a Hanifin type to play alongside Parekh in the future. Those are the two missing pieces as far as I am concerned. Schaefer or Martone (if Honzek could play C) could fill one of those needs. Basically we need a top 7 pick this year.
It’s definitely been a positive camp but I’ve been positive about this team more than most for a while. But I also still think they have a few big holes to fill.
Honzek-x-Coronato
Basha-Zary-Gridin
Huberdeau-Pospisil-Battaglia
L. Misa-Lipinski-Stromgren
Suniev/Pelletier
X-Parekh
Solovyov-Brewski
Kuznetsov-Mews
Morin/Grushnikov
Wolf
Already a pretty interesting team down the road.
I’ve been saying Hunter B was a stud going back to Penticton last year when I thought he was the best player in that tournament.
I thought Zayne played really well the last few games for an 18 year old d. He just needs to get stronger and another year in jr is absolutely the right call.
Honzek has totally surprised me and looks like his ceiling is immense.
Coronato should be a solid 2nd line scorer. 25 g 30 apples type player.
We have a very good future goalie in Wolf.
Zary and Pospisil are going to have solid NHL careers.
Gridin and Basha really showed solid potential.
Kuznetsov and Solovyov are highly underrated dmen who could give us some physicality.
Battaglia, Misa, Lipinski, Morin, Grushnikov, Suniev, Stromgren, Mews, all look like they could be contributors down the line.
This team still needs an elite C prospect. McQueen, Misa, Ryabkin, Hagens, Frondell would really give this team a chance to be a solid contender in a few years. I also think they need a LH defensive d who can shut down the cycle, skate and move pucks like a Hanifin type to play alongside Parekh in the future. Those are the two missing pieces as far as I am concerned. Schaefer or Martone (if Honzek could play C) could fill one of those needs. Basically we need a top 7 pick this year.
It’s definitely been a positive camp but I’ve been positive about this team more than most for a while. But I also still think they have a few big holes to fill.
Honzek-x-Coronato
Basha-Zary-Gridin
Huberdeau-Pospisil-Battaglia
L. Misa-Lipinski-Stromgren
Suniev/Pelletier
X-Parekh
Solovyov-Brewski
Kuznetsov-Mews
Morin/Grushnikov
Wolf
Already a pretty interesting team down the road.
Bounces R Way
Registered User
I agree with you guys that this rebuild is starting off on the right foot. Maybe the one solace we can take in the Flames perpetual mediocrity is that there are some decent pieces already in the system. I'm just happy they appear to finally be believing fully in their amateur scouting. It's one of the few strengths of the franchise since Feaster was canned. I feel like Calgary has performed well in the draft and giving the scouting staff 10 picks to work with in 2024 was a step in the right direction. Hopefully they do that again in 2025 with a top 5 pick to get that elite 2 way big 1C they need and frankly after all this time, we deserve.
Not all these prospects are going to work out, and many of those that do are going to require a lot of patience. What they need is to be setup for success and I think the franchise is already positioned well to do that. There are some solid vets on the roster to bring the kids along. I'm very glad Mikael Backlund decided to stay. Weegar, Kadri, Coleman, Andersson, Lomberg, even Huberdeau and Sharangovich to an extent are going to play a big part in bringing the youngsters along and in how quickly they can get acclimated. Huska I have some reservations about but it does seem he does well with young players.
Anecdotal but to me the rebuilds who try to establish an entire core of <25 players with little veteran support are the ones that seem to never get anywhere and are constantly hindered by low organizational standards. Buffalo, Ottawa, Arizona, Columbus, even mid 2010s Edmonton and Vancouver both although they seem to have pivoted. The more successful teams surround their prized young core with vets who can establish a good culture. LA, Chicago, Pittsburgh, St Louis, Tampa, Boston did that and have cups to show for it.
Not all these prospects are going to work out, and many of those that do are going to require a lot of patience. What they need is to be setup for success and I think the franchise is already positioned well to do that. There are some solid vets on the roster to bring the kids along. I'm very glad Mikael Backlund decided to stay. Weegar, Kadri, Coleman, Andersson, Lomberg, even Huberdeau and Sharangovich to an extent are going to play a big part in bringing the youngsters along and in how quickly they can get acclimated. Huska I have some reservations about but it does seem he does well with young players.
Anecdotal but to me the rebuilds who try to establish an entire core of <25 players with little veteran support are the ones that seem to never get anywhere and are constantly hindered by low organizational standards. Buffalo, Ottawa, Arizona, Columbus, even mid 2010s Edmonton and Vancouver both although they seem to have pivoted. The more successful teams surround their prized young core with vets who can establish a good culture. LA, Chicago, Pittsburgh, St Louis, Tampa, Boston did that and have cups to show for it.
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
I think you are selling these guy's quite a bit short here.
Hagens is going to be a stud, probably not Bedard level but could absolutely be a 50 points player at the NHL in his D+1 year. IMO he's very similar to Jack Hughes, but since he's going to the NCAA he will be more prepared for the NHL.
Andersson is unquestionably a 1st pairing caliber defenseman and a low end #1. He's 21st in production from the blue line over the last 3 years. Sure, most contenders have a better #1 (ie Makar, Pietrangelo, Hedman as recent winners) but not all. Florida won without one, and Edmonton was in the finals with a similar caliber guy. You are right though that he probably isn't part of the long term plan and likely gets moved.
Zayne Parekh's floor is Sergachev, his edge work and puck skills are far too good to not at least reach that level. I would say he is almost guaranteed to be a clear #1 at the NHL level. There is a reason his most common comparables are Quinn Hughes and Erik Karlsson.
Our rebuild is very similar to LA's, 2-3 more years max before were back in the picture.
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
I really hope Nashville has a good enough season to be big spenders this deadline. I think Andersson would be an excellent fit there and would love to get Molendyk and a 1st as a base return. High chance both make team Canada for World Juniors and may also end up as linemates.
I don't think I disagree with much you said and I am not down on the rebuild we are finally taking. I just think it is going to take longer than shorter and longer than suggested in the quote I posted.
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
The way I view it is we will probably only be drafting top 10 for the next 2 years. After that we are looking at Zary likely being a bonafide top 6 player (either winger or center), Wolf as a legitimate starter, and Coronato as a 2nd line 25+ goal scorer. Yes we desperately need 1st line caliber talent and probably a top LD prospect (maybe Poirier can still be that but I would like to add someone that more resembles Hanifin).
The problem with a rebuild lasting any longer than that is the Kadri fall off, it will happen eventually and it will hinder us in our attempts to compete. If we try and wait out his and the Huberdeau deal we will end up not doing anything until guys like Zary are in their late 20's. Ideally we could find a way to ship Kadri out to a contender in the next 2 years but I'm doubtful that it could happen (a team like Carolina would make a lot of sense for him imo).
