If I remember correctly the rumored St. Louis package was built around Jordan Kyrou as well.
Speculation: Armchair GM 2024-25 Season, Craig Conroy's Can Do Calgary Flames
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Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
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I think part of being a general manager of a hockey club; or a senior manager at any organization, you need to be able to convey your message through to stakeholders in an appropriate way that supports the direction you want to go in. If you can't simply and effectively paint a picture of your current direction, then you're not fit to do the job.
Based on Brad Treliving's tenure in Toronto so far, I'd argue that he's doing exactly what he was doing here; under different ownership.
MakeCgyGreatAgain
Registered User
Nope. It was actually Neighbours. St. Louis offer was putrid in comparison to the others. If I remember correctly Kyrou had already signed or agreed to his extension with St Louis and that took him out of any trade conversations. Fans and media were putting Kyrou in the Tkachuk rumours
Some Other Flame
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- Dec 4, 2010
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There is no chance whatsoever that Treliving had the sole authority to give Huberdeau that specific bonus-laden contract. Virtual common sense guarantee that Edwards pushed for it given the circumstances at that juncture, i.e., two prominent stars wanting out of Calgary and the city/organization being seen as less than desirable. There was a very clear and palpable push from everyone involved to dispel that idea.
But I said it at the time, the Flames were sitting on some of the most valuable trade assets in the league that summer
40 goal "#1 centre" Elias Lindholm @ 4.75m x 2yrs
Emerging top pairing defenseman Rasmus Andersson @ 4.55M x 4yrs
Emerging top pairing defenseman Noah Hanifin @ 4.95M x 2yrs
Emerging top pairing defenseman MacKenzie Weegar @ 3Mx 1yrs
115 point "franchise" winger Jonathan Huberdeau @ 6M x yrs
Retaining 50% on any 3 of those contracts would have meant "retooling" on easy mode.
But I said it at the time, the Flames were sitting on some of the most valuable trade assets in the league that summer
40 goal "#1 centre" Elias Lindholm @ 4.75m x 2yrs
Emerging top pairing defenseman Rasmus Andersson @ 4.55M x 4yrs
Emerging top pairing defenseman Noah Hanifin @ 4.95M x 2yrs
Emerging top pairing defenseman MacKenzie Weegar @ 3Mx 1yrs
115 point "franchise" winger Jonathan Huberdeau @ 6M x yrs
Retaining 50% on any 3 of those contracts would have meant "retooling" on easy mode.
Mobiandi
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2015
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The Blues were offering us Scandella, Tarasenko and a protected 1st. It was awful. The Blues org and their fans acted like Tkachuk going to St Louis was a formality
JPeeper
Registered User
- Jan 4, 2015
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Flames also don't trade our 1st with Monahan, which means we also had Monahan as a trade chip who returned a 1st, so we could have had a surplus of 2 more 1st rounders.
We could have come out with about 4+ extra 1st rounders for the past and future drafts if we kept and then dealt Monahan the year after, and traded all the pieces we got back from Florida.
We'd have had no defence at all and we'd have been fighting San Jose for Macklin last year.
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
- Dec 15, 2014
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Kranix
Deranged Homer
- Jun 27, 2012
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GMs are pretty autonomous. That's why owners flip out and fire them when they check in once a year and notice they haven't made the playoffs in a while. You have the odd figurehead like Alvin or Hughes. If you think Murray Edwards has one f***ing clue about managing a hockey roster, and was meddling with Tre, you're just gobbling fan/media hysteria, in which the Flames narrative was steeped, at the end of the Tre/Sutter era.
That's why the Flyers, a franchise also notoriously, allegedly, against rebuilding, originally let Ron Hextall start out on his 7 year rebuild plan, let him do whatever he wanted, tore the whole thing down. He kept ownership in the dark, never explained anything, and after 4.5 years of mediocrity, they were like, "what are you actually doing here? We're a bit concerned, so reassure us" and he said, "No. You'll see in year 7 when it all comes to fruition." So they fired him. They gave him the autonomy, and he never communicated his plan.
Brad Treliving is hard-wired to never rebuild. He told ownership he'd win the cup. That's why he traded a first round pick for Travis Hamonic. It has nothing to do with Murray Edwards.
He's in Toronto now, a team that was fine with rebuilding. Shanahan was fine with rebuilding. They did a massive tear down. Treliving is not going to do that.
These billionaire owners don't know anything. Has anybody seen the behind the scenes video of Kevyn Adams signing Taylor Hall? Terry Pegula is absolutely clueless. Adams says he wants to sign Taylor Hall, and the price is going to be 8 mill. Pegula says, okay, "if we sign this guy, we're trying to win the stanley cup, right?" And Adams is like...."yeeeeaah, sure thing, Mr Pegula. That's what we're doing." Pegula would have gone along either way. Sure these GMs have to get permission for big moves, but all they have to do is sell it to a billionaire who doesn't really know anything.
Owners are fine with rebuilds. They're not fine with rebuilds that don't work.
When John Bean said he's not allowed to use the word rebuild, it was because of the media hysteria around that term, the meaning of which had been totally warped. If a gm could sell ownership on a plan to get younger, because that's a path to remain competitive, an owner would go along with it.
That's why the Flyers, a franchise also notoriously, allegedly, against rebuilding, originally let Ron Hextall start out on his 7 year rebuild plan, let him do whatever he wanted, tore the whole thing down. He kept ownership in the dark, never explained anything, and after 4.5 years of mediocrity, they were like, "what are you actually doing here? We're a bit concerned, so reassure us" and he said, "No. You'll see in year 7 when it all comes to fruition." So they fired him. They gave him the autonomy, and he never communicated his plan.
Brad Treliving is hard-wired to never rebuild. He told ownership he'd win the cup. That's why he traded a first round pick for Travis Hamonic. It has nothing to do with Murray Edwards.
He's in Toronto now, a team that was fine with rebuilding. Shanahan was fine with rebuilding. They did a massive tear down. Treliving is not going to do that.
These billionaire owners don't know anything. Has anybody seen the behind the scenes video of Kevyn Adams signing Taylor Hall? Terry Pegula is absolutely clueless. Adams says he wants to sign Taylor Hall, and the price is going to be 8 mill. Pegula says, okay, "if we sign this guy, we're trying to win the stanley cup, right?" And Adams is like...."yeeeeaah, sure thing, Mr Pegula. That's what we're doing." Pegula would have gone along either way. Sure these GMs have to get permission for big moves, but all they have to do is sell it to a billionaire who doesn't really know anything.
Owners are fine with rebuilds. They're not fine with rebuilds that don't work.
When John Bean said he's not allowed to use the word rebuild, it was because of the media hysteria around that term, the meaning of which had been totally warped. If a gm could sell ownership on a plan to get younger, because that's a path to remain competitive, an owner would go along with it.
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Our free agent signings haven't had the best seasons.
Mantha - Out for season, torn ACL
Costco - Out for season, torn ACL
Bean - Healthy scratched 13/26 games
the only UFA we signed that's with the big club that's having a good year is Lombo
And add Kuz to that with his bad play. Not a FA signing, but UFA that Flames probably hoped to get a pick at the deadline. Flames most likely would have liked to get some picks for Mantha and Kuz, Kirkland and Bean were most likely staying with the team anyway.
It wasn't really much of a knock against Bean, just thought he'd be playing closer to every day, rather than half the time. Hopefully Barrie can get us a late pick back, I don't think anyone else will unless we trade someone with term.
Flames Fanatic
Mediocre
GM's are autonomous on certain rosters. That is not a universal truth in the NHL. See Calgary, Anaheim, Carolina, Detroit, Chicago, Ottawa under Melnyk, etc.
You are stating a ton of opinions like fact, and I guarantee half true/false statements have a lot of grey in between.
Every team is run differently. Pretending otherwise is like assuming working at every retail store is identical. Ownership, management (of which there can be above the GM in some organizations depending on how their President of Hockey Ops role is defined) all change things.
Tre f***ed up. I'm not defending that fact. I'm just saying that it's not outside of the realm of possibility that ownership mandates affected his plans. Bosses tell employees what they want. Employees can tell that why that isn't a good idea, but that's not always listened to. And there's been plenty of media credible sources to say that Flames ownership meddle.
I have it straight from a former players mouth that ownership didn't like how he used his NTC to say no to certain teams, and then forced the GM to move him to a team not on his list for a shit return. It's a rather infamous one trade in the last 15 years.
But you don't have to believe me. But I'm just trying to get across that people are petty, and billionaires who feel slighted certainly can fall into that category. See the rumors about what Flames ownership did to Johnny.
Kranix
Deranged Homer
- Jun 27, 2012
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It's spin. I'm saying Tre didn't present Edwards all of the offers for Tkachuk, and then waited while Edwards consulted some shadowy cabinet of hockey advisors and picked Huberdeau. That's f***ing whack. That's insane. Edward is so invested in the day to day of the Flames and the NHL, he knows Huberdeau is the more playoff ready deal? And Tre didn't tell Edwards he was leaning toward one and Edwards vetoed that and told him it has to be Huberdeau because that's closer to the cup than Necas. That's also whack. Tre had his offers, which he had to report to Edwards, as an employee making a big executive decision, and sold Edwards on the offer he was hot for. The Huberdeau one.
If Edwards was meddling, he wouldn't have let Tre f*** up the pursuit of Eichel either. He would have had his goons drive Valimaki and Andersson and Tre to the airport.
Sure. Melnyk is one glaring example of a totally lame duck GM and meddling owner.
Players and their NTCs and their salaries are a whole other matter. Owners are signing the checks, and they're petty for sure. I wasn't even debating that totally unrelated item.
Mobiandi
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2015
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I never bought that Treliving was on Murray’s strings. He put a rebuilding team into cap jail very quickly after joining, traded picks like they were burning a hole in his pocket, and was allowed a very generous amount of buyouts and coaching changes.
The rumours about Edwards meddling came from the fact we didn’t retain money on trades which has been debunked with the Rittich trade and Conroy’s early moves.
I think that the only time Treliving was put on a leash was with Sutter’s hiring. My speculation is that Darryl tried to get him out in a power struggle that might have worked if Gaudreau hadn’t walked in free agency.
But Treliving, with less than a year in his contract left, was still allowed to operate as a GM despite losing a franchise talent for nothing. And he was allowed to trade our other star winger, sign the two most expensive contracts in team history before either player had stepped foot in the Saddledome, and trade Monahan and a 1st for future considerations instead of LTIR’ing him. Most other ownership groups would have fired a guy before letting him do all that.
Treliving was just a shitty GM
The rumours about Edwards meddling came from the fact we didn’t retain money on trades which has been debunked with the Rittich trade and Conroy’s early moves.
I think that the only time Treliving was put on a leash was with Sutter’s hiring. My speculation is that Darryl tried to get him out in a power struggle that might have worked if Gaudreau hadn’t walked in free agency.
But Treliving, with less than a year in his contract left, was still allowed to operate as a GM despite losing a franchise talent for nothing. And he was allowed to trade our other star winger, sign the two most expensive contracts in team history before either player had stepped foot in the Saddledome, and trade Monahan and a 1st for future considerations instead of LTIR’ing him. Most other ownership groups would have fired a guy before letting him do all that.
Treliving was just a shitty GM
Some Other Flame
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- Dec 4, 2010
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“There is a reason,” said one NHL owner, “that I’m a control freak.”
Of course everyone's already forgotten the whole Bishop non-trade incident where Treliving thought he had a deal but needed King/Edwards permission but couldn't get a hold of them in time. Or how one of Treliving's caveats for re-signing here back in 2017 was that he'd have greater autonomy.
But people are confusing two different things. Yes, Treliving was a pretty bad and impatient GM. But Murray Edwards seems to like those kind of GM's quite bit.
But it's frankly naive to think every or even most billionaires are buying professional sports and then just sitting back twiddling their thumbs as if they suddenly stopped being massive control freaks.
Just a hands off owner totally not involved in hockey operations whatsoever
"It was a team effort to always be as shortsighted as possible"
Oh wow what a shocker, Edwards was desperate not to retool. How utterly unbelievable. It's just so surprising. Totally out of character. He seemed so normal and so on and so forth
Of course everyone's already forgotten the whole Bishop non-trade incident where Treliving thought he had a deal but needed King/Edwards permission but couldn't get a hold of them in time. Or how one of Treliving's caveats for re-signing here back in 2017 was that he'd have greater autonomy.
But people are confusing two different things. Yes, Treliving was a pretty bad and impatient GM. But Murray Edwards seems to like those kind of GM's quite bit.
But it's frankly naive to think every or even most billionaires are buying professional sports and then just sitting back twiddling their thumbs as if they suddenly stopped being massive control freaks.
Just a hands off owner totally not involved in hockey operations whatsoever
"It was a team effort to always be as shortsighted as possible"
Oh wow what a shocker, Edwards was desperate not to retool. How utterly unbelievable. It's just so surprising. Totally out of character. He seemed so normal and so on and so forth
Ace Rimmer
Stoke me a clipper.
Some Other Flame
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- Dec 4, 2010
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I'd rather re-sign Ras and make him the next captain than trade him for lottery tickets.
Also, if we do trade him, the better option would be to find a team that's a bubble team wanting to add someone for 2 years w/ hopes of re-signing him. This would net us a better 1st round pick this year, and usually if they get protected, the following year is unprotected *like our Vegas pick)
I think the Sergachev trade could work as a template, and ironically I think Utah would be a good trade partner. Maybe something like (this is also why I wouldn't want to trade him):
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]
TO
[/TH][TH]
TO
[/TH][/TR]
[TR]
[TD]D - Rasmus Andersson[/TD]
[TD]1st in 2025 (top 8 protected, or else unprotected 2026)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD].[/TD]
[TD]LW - Egpr Sokolov[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD].[/TD]
[TD]D - Michael Kesselring[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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crackdown44
Cold milk cools down hot food
- Dec 1, 2017
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Absolutely fine with keeping Ras if the right deal isn’t out there. That being said if you’re going to trade him you do it this deadline, not as a rental next season. You’re going to get a fair bit more value out of him that way
We’re going to be floating around a wild card though so they’ll keep him and then next year we’ll suck and they’ll trade him for the 27th overall pick and some dude who will never play a game in the NHL
We’re going to be floating around a wild card though so they’ll keep him and then next year we’ll suck and they’ll trade him for the 27th overall pick and some dude who will never play a game in the NHL
This is what I think will happens, with Montreal having the pick, we just had to, just had to be in wild card spot.
