tmurfin
That’s the joke
- May 8, 2010
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To be fair there was hope he would find his game again before training camp started. 2/3 seasons ago before his injury woes he looked like a guarenteed top 4 NHL dman with room to be more.
Claimed off Waivers: [ARI] Coyotes claim D Juuso Valimaki off waivers from the Flames
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
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It really is too bad the injuries have derailed him so much. But it does kinda feel like the damage may be insurmountable for him. He was never really fleet of foot to begin with...losing even more mobility seems to have been a bridge too far for him, as an NHL player. But he'll certainly get an opportunity in Arizona to play his way back into form. Maybe he'll find a way to still be effective.
- Jan 9, 2009
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I thought it was ... but then I'm old enough to remember watching reruns of this movie on tv.
It's a good spot for him. He has a degree of potential to be a top 4 guy. But to get there he needs to play 200 games and will lose his team quote a few of them along the way. Flames couldn't afford to let him make those mistakes.
Jihadi Flames Fan
1989
- Sep 13, 2009
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Johnnybegood13
Registered User
- Jul 11, 2003
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This is wrong, Valimaki in his draft year was know as an excellent skater, edge work, agility, speed and acceleration were top notch... nothing near below-average. The torn knee at a young age took it's toll in his development but there's no need to make things up.
I hope he has a long very good career in the NHL.
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
- Dec 15, 2014
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Pre draft:
Giordano and Ekholm were comparisons, although the expectation IIRC was that he'd be a second pairing guy. There was disappointment we didn't go for Liljegren, although with Kylington in the system, we quickly got excited for a guy with a seemingly higher floor but lower ceiling. The expectation was that he'd be a 3/4 and would top out as a 2/3 dman.
Post draft:
In the 2018-2019 season (just turned 20), Valimaki surprised early and was the 3rd best dman on our NHL roster behind Gio and Brodie and ahead of Hanifin, Kylington, Stone and Hamonic by a noticeable margin. He literally was our #3 dman and did not look out of place at all. IIRC, it was also realized that he was carrying the line vs being carried by the veteran. This quickly caused many Flames fans to revise that 2/3 dman ceiling to a potential 1D and Hanifin quickly falling out of favor and sudden worries about how to protect players in the oncoming expansion draft.
Injuries/Post injuries/development derailment:
His 2018-2019 season concluded with a high ankle sprain that ended his season.
In the 2019-2020 offseason, he tore his ACL just prior to the start of training camp. He missed all of the 2019-2020 NHL season as a result, with a timeline of return after the TDL. So as a strategic move to maintain his exempt status, he strategically sat out after his recovery to allow Calgary to protect him in the expansion draft.
In 2020-2021, Covid screwed everything up and many leagues were shut down. Development for Valimaki was further limited and at this point, Valimaki basically had not been exposed to high level of competition since the end of the 2018-2019 season. Valimaki played RD in Liiga to expand his chances of making the Flames as the LD or RD on the bottom pairing. Coincidentally, he played with Coyotes prospect Hayton there. He was doing damn well there and wore the golden helmet for his team as the highest scorer.
Again, coincidentally, there were some slight comparisons with Chychrun a few years ago when we were discussing how to approach expectations of the calibre of prospect of Valimaki after his ACL injury. This started off mainly with the ACL recovery facet only, but then it was realized there were a surprising amount of similarities, albeit the two played distinctively different. It was not expected that Valimaki would hit the same level as Chychrun, but as a lite version post injury, we still felt was possible. In a nutshell, there are similar tools with Chychrun and Valimaki post injury and glimpses while in Liiga. However, it was felt that Chychrun made more aggressive pinches and was more offense oriented and Valimaki played it safer, preferring to hang back.
One thing that I noticed. The style he played in Liiga is similar to his 2018-2019 season. However, he doesn't play that style in the AHL or NHL post injury, which is bizarre. Not playing that style is why he hasn't gotten back IMO. I think he's healthy enough to still be a 2nd pairing guy, but I think there's a major mental aspect of some sort that keeps him playing the way he needs to to get to the NHL.
He was a smooth skating dman from the beginning. I don't get why some are saying his skating is bad. It was awful after the injuries, but it wasn't horrific based on glimpses we saw in the Liiga highlights and the TOI he played there was solid.
Agreed. But I also think that a strange mental block seeped in as well. I don't know what it is, but he plays different, hesitant and poorly in the AHL/NHL post injury. But what's bizarre is that we have evidence that he can play his original game in the Liiga clips post injury. There he skated decently and in a nimble manner. Here... I have no clue why he looks like he has cement shoes.
I agree with others that I really do hope Valimaki can rediscover his game, even if it's with the Yotes.
I also know it's tossed around too much as a crazy concept, but I'd consider converting him to forward. He did well attempting to learn RD. I think he has the IQ and offensive tools to learn to play a decent defensively responsible wing.
HarrySPlinkett
Not a film critic
He might have been good for a 17 year old - at the NHL level, Valimaki has always appeared off balance and clunky. He doesn’t look fluid.
That’s just my personal eye test. I really hope he figures it out.
- May 3, 2021
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Valimaki missed his entire sophomore season due to a torn ACL (2019-20). He returned back to form in the Liiga and later showed a little bit of progress under Geoff Ward (2020-21). The struggles really didn't start until the last part of 2020-21 when Sutter was hired.
Sutter doesn't like Valimaki for whatever reason. He was given zero leeway and was quickly demoted in 2021-22. While in the AHL, he played for Mitch Love, who is an "old school" type of coach that favors veterans who play a heavy game, which didn't fare well for Valimaki either. The moment Valimaki missed a couple games due to injury last season, Love re-assigned his spot on the top pairing and he never got back into Love's good graces.
The skill is still there. It feels like Valimaki just needs to get his confidence back, a coach that he jives with, and a sports psychologist.
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Thanks. So then why didn't they trade him all this time to get some value back?
And hopefully he does not neeed to fight his coach's son.
Juuso Valimaki Is In Some Hot Water
The Flames prospect is looking at a three game suspension for contacting a referee Saturday night.
www.google.com
I can only assume that Treliving thought he would pass through waivers due to his $1.5M cap hit and was willing to the take that chance in order to be cap compliant.
There may have been no trade opportunities. All the other GMs presumably knew that the Flames would need to waive two of their nine defensemen on one-way contracts (excluding Stone, who was on PTO) and were just waiting to see who would get waived so that they could pounce
mouser
Business of Hockey
Some Other Flame
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2010
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I'm still surprised he was claimed at all, especially by Arizona of all teams. His contract is really bad for what he brings.
Ledge And Dairy
Registered User
Considering some of the other players placed and claimed off waivers I'm surprised we couldn't get a player swap. I would have been fine trading him for Leason in Washington
I mean why wasn't he traded in the off season or last trade deadline or before that.
Figgy44
A toast of purple gato for the memories
- Dec 15, 2014
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I guess there was always the hope that he could pan our in our org and be that solid 2nd or 3rd pairing dman and some of the reasoning for him faltering were always sorta one offs so you hoped his turnaround was just around the corner. Plus the pipeline for our prospect dmen was very shallow for the last few years. Mackey (UFA), Kylington (graduated), Valimaki (languished) and then veteran trades were used to fill in the gaps. This is further perhaps why we obtained Weegar via trade and guys like Z and Gubranson in the past.
He sat out for expansion draft which made him valuable.
He sat out for Covid, but then who didn't.
That second pairing or third pairing LD spot was his for the taking last year, until Kylington came out of nowhere and took it. I assume this is when evaluating a trade began, but it didn't transpire.
He again had another opportunity to grab a spot, but Mackey leapfrogged him.
I agree a fresh start and perhaps a sports psychologist would help. He's not playing the style that gave him success in the NHL. I haven't seen a Flames prospect overthinking defense to the detriment to his overall game since Sven Baertschi. Valimaki in his current state should be able to play like Giordano of 1-2 years ago IMO. Decent enough as a 4/5 dman and can be a 3/4 in a pinch. Enough movement in all directions, enough snarl, enough offense and IQ to balance out the weaknesses in his game due to body breaking down. Instead he's playing with little backwards skating, no snarl, no offense/stay at home and the lack of backwards skating means he's occasionally panic passing or dumping the puck rather than attacking.
These are his 2020-2021 Liiga highlights.
Here's his 2021 NHL highlights
I haven't seen major issues of him skating forward, but when I tried to find recent examples of him skating backwards in pre-season and regular season etc. I somehow couldn't find many decent examples of it. There seemed to be quite a few examples of him skating forwards or gliding sorta sideways back in the dzone though. I noticed this in some of the Liiga highlights too. I wonder if that's the part that's making Sutter dislike him because that movement is costing him a full second or two of decision making time when he repositions and on some, he panics without time to make a good decision and gives it away (ie: Brady Tkachuk goal highlight). As some of you mentioned, your skating coach might be able to help with skating. That backwards skating and pivot into the dzone could "fix" his game. 1-2 seconds of time to make a good defensive move would be huge for him.
Again, the other option I think is converting him to wing. He can be a defensively responsible winger to address his backward skating mobility issues, utilize his offensive IQ and maintain some of his defensive mindset might work out for the Yotes, if the dman aspect is abandoned. The 2020-2021 Liiga highlights and the 2021 NHL highlights show examples of him playing very effective offense when he's past the face off circles.
GeeoffBrown
Registered User
- Jul 6, 2007
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I think one important part of the story is Oliver Kylington. At first, Sutter was playing Valimaki over Kylington but Kylington overtook Valimaki over time.
MMC
Global Moderator
Seems like a great move for the Coyotes
GeeoffBrown
Registered User
- Jul 6, 2007
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BringTheReign
Registered User
On an unrelated note, I love your avatar. I have a bunch of those old MVP cards. That was like '03-'04 or '05-'06, right?
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