Are the Red Wings...contenders?

[Marky9er]

The Red Wings rebuild like fingernails, the old one falls off revealing the replacement. Larkin will be a revelation.

This team isn't comparable to 08, but something to take from 08 is how perfect the pickups of Stuart and Drake were. I don't think that the Wings need to make any huge moves...but they could probably make similar moves this year. Could use a defender and perhaps a little more physical presence.

 

[Henkka]

Remove Kronwwall, Dats, and Z and the wings are probably down around NJ and Florida maybe lower.

Last year we saw that and we went to playoffs. That was our lowest bottom. Noteven near of Florida or New Jersey. There's more in this team.

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Kronwall's window is closing yes.

But at same time, new window is opening. Our depth drafting keeps us in the race all the time, and IF, ONEDAY, a bad season comes, we have a great possibility to draft high that needed 1st line center.

 

[Dr Quincy]

No. D isn't good enough.

 

[frivolousz21]

You can not soley base an argument on stastics, they may help reinforce a point, but can't purely make one (at least in sports). You haven't watched many games if you believe Franzen has been a productive player for the Wings.

That post talking about Franzen was citing last year.

When he posted 16G, 41Pts in 54 games and a +6 getting almost 18 mins a night with 17PPP.

That is extremely productive.

 

[jeangauthier]

Dear fellow red wings fans.

The people you're arguing with are the same people who've been saying the wings were going to become a bottom feeder for the last 1.5 decades.
They're just envious.

Stop feeding the trolls.

Great post...............best FO in the league......

 

[SoupNazi]

And as a fan of the Wings, it really pains me to say it. I'd rather be realistic about their future, then wear rose colored glasses and believe in something that just doesn't happen much at all. You can't build the team around wingers. Without a 1C or 1D it is very difficult to go far in this league.

I see. And you know for a fact that Larkin can't develop into a #1C?

 

[frivolousz21]

Last year we saw that and we went to playoffs. That was our lowest bottom. Noteven near of Florida or New Jersey. There's more in this team.

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Kronwall's window is closing yes.

But at same time, new window is opening. Our depth drafting keeps us in the race all the time, and IF, ONEDAY, a bad season comes, we have a great possibility to draft high that needed 1st line center.

No you didn't. Not even close to seeing what it would be like without the old core as well a hired gun.

Like 3/4th of the production came from the old players last year.

 

[topnotch]

Just as previous redwings threads have demonstrated, debating the future of the redwings is more interesting than debating their current status.

 

[dtones520]

Fun fact: tonight during the DRWs broadcast they compared Nyquist/Tatar to Datsyuk/Zetterberg at the same age. Interestingly enough Tatar and Nyquist are doing better in their young careers than Datsyuk and Zetterberg did.

Also, little early to be writing Dekeyser, Ouellet and Larkin off just yet, isn't it? Not to mention Mrazek, Sproul, Pulkenen... Lil Bert, Turgeon, Sheahan, Nastasiuk, Holmstrom...
Lots of talent there. And Wings are only going to draft more.

Fun fact: Datsyuk and Zetterberg are both centers and have both matured into elite two way centers. An elite two way center will always be more important to tem success than a winger, regardless of how good that winger is.

 

[dtones520]

No you didn't. Not even close to seeing what it would be like without the old core as well a hired gun.

Like 3/4th of the production came from the old players last year.

What you are ignoring is the fact that Nyquist was basically the reason we made the playoffs last year and he wasn't on the roster until January when he went on an insane tear when Datsyuk and Zetterberg were hurt. Without that explosion of goals and game winning goals, Detroit misses the playoffs. Without the injuries to their older players there is no spots in the lineup for Sheahan and Jurco, who were also a huge part of the success down the stretch last year. That, coupled with Tatar coming into his own, was the main reason we made the playoffs last season. Not saying that Franzen and Alfredsson's production didn't help, but if you watched the Wings all of last season you would know that those stat lines do not paint a picture of their season. Especially when you talk about Franzen's production, he has been incredibly streaky for years now, last season was no exception.

 

[Pavels Dog]

No you didn't. Not even close to seeing what it would be like without the old core as well a hired gun.

Like 3/4th of the production came from the old players last year.

http://i.imgur.com/rIVr5L1.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
I think the point proven last year was that when the top guys go down and the younger players get bigger roles (=more icetime) they can handle it and they can produce. The veterans are still great players and still get the most ice-time and drive the bus so to speak, but even this year it's obvious they are less depended on (for example not given any PK time) than they've been in the past. The next generation is picking up a lot of the load that Pavel, Z and even Franzen have been carrying for years.

[quote="topnotch, post: 96888515"]Just as previous redwings threads have demonstrated, debating the future of the redwings is more interesting than debating their current status.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, all Red Wings threads turn into debates about when they will start to suck. Make no mistake, in a few years we will see posts like "Nyquist and Tatar are almost 30, they will decline soon and how will the Wings replace them? They can't.".

 

[LarKing]

Every year we have several threads about the Wings involving the playoffs. There's one in the "Wings will finally miss this year" category. Then when the Wings are clearly in a playoff spot/probably not going to miss we have the "wings make playoffs for xx years now" threads. Those threads end up turning it a "well yeah, but your future sucks and we're going to be right about this next year!!!!!1!1!". The only difference in this year is that we're going to be in a playoff spot a lot sooner than years past. Go back every year this is literally always the case. If the Wings do miss the playoffs when Datsyuk/Zetterberg retire people are going to act like they're geniuses when this type of thing has been happening forever.

 

[frivolousz21]

Fun fact: Datsyuk and Zetterberg are both centers and have both matured into elite two way centers. An elite two way center will always be more important to tem success than a winger, regardless of how good that winger is.

For their age in this fast, hard, and young NHL it's amazing.

They are also elite faceoff guys in any situation. I didn't think they could keep up at this pace. Especially pavs being so old.

 

[ForumNamePending]

At the very least I wouldn't be surprised if they make it to the conference finals, but I think I would probably say that about any team that makes the playoffs in the East.

As far as comparing this team to '08 goes... I think this year's forwards are in the same ballpark as the '08 team but when comparing the defences the difference is significant.

 

[LarKing]

At the very least I wouldn't be surprised if they make it to the conference finals, but I think I would probably say that about any team that makes the playoffs in the East.

As far as comparing this team to '08 goes... I think this year's forwards are in the same ballpark as the '08 team but when comparing the defences the difference is significant.

This exactly. Our depth at forward is better but our stars are older now. The defense is where things are vastly different. Kronwall is a much better player now but he was our #3 on the 08 team, which is kind of ridiculous to think about.

 

[Mikeshane]

Not with that crappy defense.

 

[LarKing]

Our crappy defense has allowed the fewest goals 5 on 5 in the league, and our PK was 1st in the league before our starter went down, but still 7th even after a terrible stretch with a new goalie. While I'm not going to argue it's the best in the league, it deserves a bit more credit than it's getting.

 

[hindude24]

I distinctly remember a thread back in 2004 right after the Wings were knocked out of the playoffs by the Flames, a thread titled something along the lines of "Is Detroit's dynasty finished?". Of course a huge debate as to whether the Wings were a dynasty or not started (which I don't want to start now, I really don't care about that), but the essence of the thread was that now that the Wings lost to the Flames after another "early" round exit (I believe the year before they were knocked out of the first round by the Oilers), does this spell the end of the Wings? I remember this so vividily because I stumbled upon it around 2009 or 2010 and had a good chuck of how 90% of the posters stated the Wings would be "lucky to make the playoffs 3 years from now" because Yzerman, Shanahan, Lidstrom, Chelios etc. would all be leaving soon, they don't have that "blue chip young guy" to wouldn't able to take over the leadership role, and the new cap implemented would be the end of them buying players. I just kind of look back and chuckle at that thread now. I'm not saying they will be a cup contender for years to come or that they are now, if you were to ask me if I trust Ken Holland/ the Wings organization re-tooling and moving the Wings back up to a powerhouse or some random fans on an internet who've predicted the Wings demise for the past 10+ years, I'd take my chances with Ken.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Making the playoffs doesn't make the Red Wings a team in the midst of a "dynasty".

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

They play in East so ,, Yeah I would say they have as good a chance as any other East team that makes playoffs

 

[CH25]

And as a fan of the Wings, it really pains me to say it. I'd rather be realistic about their future, then wear rose colored glasses and believe in something that just doesn't happen much at all. You can't build the team around wingers. Without a 1C or 1D it is very difficult to go far in this league.

What about goalies ? Are they good in that department ?

 

[CH25]

Our crappy defense has allowed the fewest goals 5 on 5 in the league, and our PK was 1st in the league before our starter went down, but still 7th even after a terrible stretch with a new goalie. While I'm not going to argue it's the best in the league, it deserves a bit more credit than it's getting.

Babcock working his magic ?

 

[RedHot]

I don't think their defence is good enough, but maybe with a deadline add (Petry) they could do some damage in the east.

 

[Dotter]

They played like 55% of the season at PPG paces. Kronwall played the entire season and put up 50 pts.

Alfie put up 50 pts in 68 games.

Franzen put up 16G, 41Pts in 54 games.


Alfie
Kronwall
Z
Franzen
Dats

made up 1,2,3, 5, and 7 on the wings scoring last year.

That was still the bulk of the production.

So basically what you are saying is if Detroit Red Wings were to remove 5 players on their roster worth around about $26 million combined and play under the salary cap floor, Wings might not make the playoffs and be in Panther territory in points?

Makes sense.

 

[Nicklin3011*]

No. Here is why. As someone stated before they would be a fringe playoff team in the west and probably not even in. Though, it's hard to judge that by stats and standings even...just given the competition I don't believe and I'm sure many others do as well that they could hold up playing the west every night. They might be where Winnipeg is now fighting for a spot. Do people honestly think an aging Zetterberg and Dats can compete with the likes of Chicago, St.Louis, and Nashville all teams having 4 complete lines especially Chicago, Stl. Don't get me wrong they are great players still, but not good enough to get by the Central teams let alone the rest of the west. They don't play the west, so they could very well win a round or two, but can't beat TB, Pit etc in a long series. They also have very thin defense and would probably be their achilles heel. They are in what NBA fans like to call, "NBA HELL". They will make the playoffs and kind of be a mirage in the east, but I feel like they should be focusing on rebuilding rather then continually being this team that can win it all if every single thing goes their way. Anyways just my two cents and just the way they've been viewed around lately. Even with them being this hot and between 1-3 I just don't see them being feared