Are the Panthers Issues over

[Yukon Joe]

I dunno...I have pics on my phone from a friend that was there (happy to share, but they usually show up HUGE on the site) and in the lower bowl I see a major see of red and white with a speckle of blue.

Overall...this thread is ridiculous.

If you wish I'd be happy to take a look - and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I've got no dog in this fight.

But I'm saying - the pics I saw - when you zoom in a lot of what looks red at first turns out to be orange...

 

[Last Rat Standing]

I'm interested to see how much the team made over the past two finals runs. Figure they had 6 Finals games and and 16 other.playoffs games since last year. They should have made plenty to keep them in the green for several years

 

[Clint]

So much Orange. Yes, an absolute sea of Oilers fans. Definitely forty to fifty per cent.

 

[Yukon Joe]

So much Orange. Yes, an absolute sea of Oilers fans. Definitely forty to fifty per cent.

So pic is blurry past a few rows out so hard to make out anything in the wider lower bowl.

From what I can make out the number of Oilers jerseys is not definitely not 40-50% (in this section - but there's still a lot of them...

 

[Voight]

I think the Panthers will be able to build on this. The team competing sky isn’t going away. The 2006 Hurricanes in retrospect were a one off story. They missed in 2004 before the lockout and then missed the two seasons after 2006. The Panthers have been an elite team the least three years and there isn’t a reason to think that will suddenly stop.

The attendance has been increasing each of the past few years. That is going to continue. I don’t think the team will be a sellout every night team because the geographical nature of the market of it being very spread out and the arena being on the outer edges. But they’ll probably fall into the Dallas zone.

Their core is pretty young too, its not like its an older group other than Bob.

 

[SImpelton]

I'm interested to see how much the team made over the past two finals runs. Figure they had 6 Finals games and and 16 other.playoffs games since last year. They should have made plenty to keep them in the green for several years

Well it's not just gate revenue (people overestimate the significance of gate revenue in the modern economy)

Success brings media and sponsorship revenue too. It brings eyeballs and eyeballs bring advertisers. People want to invest in a winning concern.

This win may bring them sponsors and minority ownership that can help them weather the next crash. That's ultimately what happened with the Canes, they survived the lean times (barely) thanks partially to the glitz from the 06 win and the fact that Cam Ward existed, and now they're back on the up and up.

Their core is pretty young too, its not like its an older group other than Bob.

Nothing wrong with an older tender. Just ask my Bruins. The only Cup we've won in living memory came when our tender was just about the oldest man on the team (give or take a Mark Recchi or so)

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

If you wish I'd be happy to take a look - and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I've got no dog in this fight.

But I'm saying - the pics I saw - when you zoom in a lot of what looks red at first turns out to be orange...

 

[joelef]

So are the panthers quebecs / Canada media next great satan since the coyotes are gone?

 

[BKIslandersFan]

We won't know the answer to this until the day comes where the Panthers suck again.

will attendance stay strong or will the building be empty again?

How many real fans are there?

How many "real" fans are in Boston?

 

[Last Rat Standing]

So are the panthers quebecs / Canada media next great satan since the coyotes are gone?

No team should be at this point. Winning the cup helped solidify a whole new generation of fans

 

[Bixby Snyder]

The NHL is at a point now that every team is profitable, its not a gate driven league anymore. The only reason the coyotes moved was not having a proper arena to play in not because they were losing money.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

I think the Jets fan should be more concerned about his teams attendance issues then that of the current cup champs.

 

[rkhum]

How many "real" fans are in Boston?

View attachment 887768

Few things:

1. The Garden had under 15K capacity BUT yes, once Bobby Orr left the Bruins could not sell out playoff games!
2. In 2003 The Bruins drew 13K for a playoff game vs NJ with 17.5 capacity.
3. By 2007 the Bruins had fewer season ticket holders than Atlanta, less than the bare minimum for an expansion team AND the area was half Rangers or Habs.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Few things:

1. The Garden had under 15K capacity BUT yes, once Bobby Orr left the Bruins could not sell out playoff games!
2. In 2003 The Bruins drew 13K for a playoff game vs NJ with 17.5 capacity.
3. By 2007 the Bruins had fewer season ticket holders than Atlanta, less than the bare minimum for an expansion team AND the area was half Rangers or Habs.

And no one was calling for the Bruins to be relocated to Quebec. Yet here we have people voicing concern about the Panthers because of a couple thousand Oiler fans in Sunrise.

 

[joelef]

No team should be at this point. Winning the cup helped solidify a whole new generation of fans

The Canadian media and q

And no one was calling for the Bruins to be relocated to Quebec. Yet here we have people voicing concern about the Panthers because of a couple thousand Oiler fans in Sunrise.

tital hypocrisy

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Few things:

1. The Garden had under 15K capacity BUT yes, once Bobby Orr left the Bruins could not sell out playoff games!
2. In 2003 The Bruins drew 13K for a playoff game vs NJ with 17.5 capacity.
3. By 2007 the Bruins had fewer season ticket holders than Atlanta, less than the bare minimum for an expansion team AND the area was half Rangers or Habs.

Exactly.

This myth that only southern teams draw flies when they put out bad product has to stop.

 

[barkovcanfinnish]

I've never felt more secure in my belief in the long-lasting existence of this team in South Florida than I do now.

 

[Cowumbus]

If you wish I'd be happy to take a look - and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I've got no dog in this fight.

But I'm saying - the pics I saw - when you zoom in a lot of what looks red at first turns out to be orange...

You probably saw warmup pictures
Vs in game

 

[razor ray]

 

[Yukon Joe]

You probably saw warmup pictures
Vs in game

That might be it. The Wyshynski tweet was definitely the one I saw on Monday - and yes the second photo (albeit at a much tighter angle) shows mostly Panthers jerseys. So maybe it was just Oilers fans coming down from the upper bowl to check out pre-game warm-up.

 

[the big nobody]

The NHL is at a point now that every team is profitable, its not a gate driven league anymore. The only reason the coyotes moved was not having a proper arena to play in not because they were losing money.

Absolute nonsense. The Coyotes were not profitable, and they never were.

 

[SImpelton]

I think the Jets fan should be more concerned about his teams attendance issues then that of the current cup champs.

With the Panthers future secured for at least the next 3-4 seasons, the Winnipeg Jets are probably the most "bubble" team in the league. It's them and Columbus at this point.

So much has to go right for such a tiny market to remain viable, and even if they do, there's voices in the league that are going to state the obvious: however much money you make in tiny Winnipeg or Columbus,, there's more money to be made for the league in one if the big US cities.

I've actually wondered if the Jackets might move to Atlanta at some point. The hilarious irony of a team named after Union troops marching to Atlanta aside, it would be a solid move from a revenue sharing standpoint.

If the Jets went to San Diego they wouldn't even have to change their name, it's a center of naval aviation and IIRC multiple aircraft carriers call the naval base there, home.

 

[joelef]

With the Panthers future secured for at least the next 3-4 seasons, the Winnipeg Jets are probably the most "bubble" team in the league. It's them and Columbus at this point.

So much has to go right for such a tiny market to remain viable, and even if they do, there's voices in the league that are going to state the obvious: however much money you make in tiny Winnipeg or Columbus,, there's more money to be made for the league in one if the big US cities.

I've actually wondered if the Jackets might move to Atlanta at some point. The hilarious irony of a team named after Union troops marching to Atlanta aside, it would be a solid move from a revenue sharing standpoint.

If the Jets went to San Diego they wouldn't even have to change their name, it's a center of naval aviation and IIRC multiple aircraft carriers call the naval base there, home.

Why would Columbus leave?

 

[BMN]

I honestly don't see any "bubble" teams right now. Anyone claiming there is a "bubble" team is doing it on almost complete conjecture.

The Winnipeg thread on this board is pretty thorough. It is pretty much defacto the "bubble" team if there has to be one it because its ownership decided to rattle some chains about its recent attendance (which is still nowhere near putting the franchise in jeopardy given how the league's finances are structured). But I legit think there would have to be 3-5 non-competitive years on the ice combined with another attendance decrease for there to be anything remotely worth worrying about.

What people keep missing, and just dropping Columbus into the conversation is proof of this, is that ownership itself has to want to move/sell before anything even gets put on the table. And while there's no doubt Blue Jackets' ownership grumbled about the operations of the team (AKA how it was going on the ice) this year, I've never heard any serious interest from them to sell/move. And why would they? The city gov't loves them.

 

[Yukon Joe]

With the Panthers future secured for at least the next 3-4 seasons, the Winnipeg Jets are probably the most "bubble" team in the league. It's them and Columbus at this point.

So much has to go right for such a tiny market to remain viable, and even if they do, there's voices in the league that are going to state the obvious: however much money you make in tiny Winnipeg or Columbus,, there's more money to be made for the league in one if the big US cities.

The thing is - you have no idea which are the most or least profitable franchise (and to be clear - neither do I).

Determining profitability depends not only on revenue coming in, but expenses coming out (forgive me if this is too simple, but I feel like we need to go there). Teams not only receive HRR (hockey related revenue) but other revenue as well. Just as one example, the Winnpeg Jets receive about $5 mil per year from VLTs located nearby the arena. That money helps to pay down the mortgage on the CLC Centre - and is not part of HRR.

Expenses can be an even greater mystery. The biggest one is often debt servicing - and the amount of debt any one franchise has is not at all public.

It takes extreme circumstances for the league to force a sale - which is why Arizona stayed for so very, very long. No owner wants to set the precedent that the league can easily force a sale. So that's why, even if theoretically moving the Jets to Houston might be more profitable (and I'm not sure it would) the league would never force a move. Because once you set that precedent then any franchise can be forced to sell.


Generally speaking, now that Arizona has FINALLY been moved - it's hard to say what might be the most "on the bubble" franchise. If you want to go by attendance the bottom three are San Jose, Buffalo, and Winnipeg. I don't think any of them are moving though. If you want to go by revenue (according to Forbes) the lowest are Ottawa, Columbus and Florida. I don't think any of them are moving either. (this excludes Arizona for obvious reasons - they were at the bottom of both lists).

Those of us at BOH were somewhat spoiled by the Arizona story - it was so obvious, and so public, for so very, very long. The next relocation though is more likely to be like Atlanta - nobody saw it coming until a few months before it happened, because it was all behind the scene machinations.