Are the Leafs a better TEAM without Matthews?

[Evilhomer]

I mean he was posting that New Jersey was taking all perimeter shots in the first period, when posters were showing that the shots were indeed high danger shots, and still could not admit he was wrong lol

I was saying that Jersey's shots were really not all that dangerous regardless of the number or where they were from, and then others pointed out today that on re-watching the game they noticed that the Leafs did a good job of collapsing down low and not really allowing prime chances in close. That is part of Berube's system. Of course Stolartz also did his job, but both things can be true at the same time. Jersey did very little in the dirty areas of the ice, which is to be expected because that is not the type of team they have.

 

[LeafEgo]

In carreer outside of habs series so in 47 of his 54 playoff game, Nylander had 1 5v5 goal against any opposite top 6 line and it was a bad angle shot who never should goes in.... and like 3 to 5 assist.

If that's true, the parameters keep changing, I don't think it matters much if it was the second or third line on the ice when he got the game winner in the third period against Boston or what should have been the game winner in the third period in game 7 a few months ago.

He was just the guy we could put over the boards to win us the game.

 

[Apex Predator]

positive regression is coming soon. he's not going to keep shooting around 10-11 % all season. he will bounce back. patience is key and it seems many on these broads dont have it.

To be fair I think a lot of people have been more than patient with the leafs. After 8 years of playoff failure patience runs a bit thin.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I was saying that Jersey's shots were really not all that dangerous regardless of the number or where they were from, and then others pointed out today that on re-watching the game they noticed that the Leafs did a good job of collapsing down low and not really allowing prime chances in close. That is part of Berube's system. Of course Stolartz also did his job, but both things can be true at the same time. Jersey did very little in the dirty areas of the ice, which is to be expected because that is not the type of team they have.

But their shots were dangerous. They did get prime chances in close. They did quite a bit in the dirty areas of the ice. They were not perimeter. You said that you didn't even watch most of it, and you seem to be basing your position on your flawed perception of what New Jersey (the team with the most high danger shots in the league, by far) is, instead of what actually happened.

 

[Racer88]

To be fair I think a lot of people have been more than patient with the leafs. After 8 years of playoff failure patience runs a bit thin.

I wish I could like this post 10 times

 

[thusk]

If that's true, the parameters keep changing, I don't think it matters much if it was the second or third line on the ice when he got the game winner in the third period against Boston or what should have been the game winner in the third period in game 7 a few months ago.

He was just the guy we could put over the boards to win us the game.

1- Top 6 including first and second line

2-Yes i'm agree he scored important goal a but actually 4 of his last 5 goal was more luck than something he really created ( so his last 2 series). But yeah he scored those goal.

3-If you get a 11,5M who can't playing against a top 6 line, that's put a lot of pressure of everyone else on the roster and you're better to have a pretty solid 3 and 4th line. Also mean he can't play in a line with matthews because those player will plsy a lot vs opp top 6 and so making you pretty linited with your option

4-Like i said everybody need to be better

 

[notbias]

They're not, but it's no question there's a fck ton of bad habits surrounding this team when Matthews plays.

Part of me wonders if it's because Matthews is more limited than most superstars. He reminds of of Anthony Davis in that regard.

He's got a great shot, but he's not like Drai or Ovi, who have a signature spot.

He's more limited because he is more versatile in how he scores?

Can you expand on this?

I'd say Matthews is one of the most complete stars in the game, he does everything well.

 

[arso40]

1- Top 6 including first and second line

2-Yes i'm agree he scored important goal a but actually 4 of his last 5 goal was more luck than something he really created ( so his last 2 series)

3-If you get a 11,5M who can't playing against a top 6 line, that's put a lot of pressure of everyone else on the roster and you're better to have a pretty solid 3 and 4th line

4-Like i said everybody need to be better

I guess he’s had a clover in the playoffs and I don’t see how he can’t play against top 6 players he’s been doing that since a rookie and yes everyone needs to be better especially him

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Depends on what you get back in a trade for him.

If you think removing Matthews from the team is addition by subtraction you're wrong. This isn't Jacob Trouba we're talking about. Despite their winning record with him out of the lineup the Leafs are definitely a much better team with Matthews than without.

A stud franchise centre is an absolute must, must, must have to win the cup.

They might not win with Matthews but they definitely won't win without him. There is no overstating just how important Auston Matthews is to this organization as a result. He is the Captain of the team and face of the franchise.

He is literally re-writing the history books in front of our eyes.

If, for some ungodly reason, the Leafs decide to trade Matthews they may as well just start the rebuild. Because even if another #1C were to come back he would be a lesser player than Matthews. Teams aren't gonna let the Leafs rip them off so the throw-ins wouldn't be enough to improve Toronto over status quo.

It's pretty hard to imagine any scenario where this team would be better off long term without Matthews than with him.

 

[Leafsfan74]

In a word, obviously "No".

If he is healthy, he is one of the most dominant players in the game and can go a month with the world saying "he's the best forward in the game".

If he is injured and a liability (meaning can only play at 80% or less capacity) then yes, the team would be better without him in the lineup.

Only he knows if he is injured or not at any given moment. I suspect he is and it may even require drastic changes to how he live his life outside of the game if it is the case.

 

[thusk]

I guess he’s had a clover in the playoffs and I don’t see how he can’t play against top 6 players he’s been doing that since a rookie and yes everyone needs to be better especially him

Outside of MTL series where it was by far the worst top 6 leafs ever play in playoff... 1 goal and like 5 pts in 47 games against any top 6 linr. It's like 1 pts every 10 game played. Its kind of stats i will expect from a guy like Jarnkrok of rhose kind of depth player, not a key player.

Knies in 2 years had like 3 goal and basically as much pts...

Doing it in regular season and playoff are 2 different thing

 

[sunstersun]

He's more limited because he is more versatile in how he scores?

Can you expand on this?

I'd say Matthews is one of the most complete stars in the game, he does everything well.

He's versatile, but he doesn't have a signature move that's overwhelming. As a result there's more issues in creating his own offence.

Ovi can score in different ways like Matthews, but he doesn't need to. He can just stay at his spot. It's why Stamkos is gonna age a lot better than Tavares. Ovi at this age, similar to Stamkos is a PP merchant. But lot of value in that.

 

[arso40]

Outside of MTL series where it was by far the worst top 6 leafs ever play in playoff... 1 goal and like 5 pts in 47 games against any top 6 linr. It's like 1 pts every 10 game played. Its kind of r stats i will expect from a guy like Jarnkrok of rhose kind of depth player, not a key player.
Ear
Knies in 2 years had like 3 goal and basically as much pts...

Doing it in regular season and playoff are 2 different thing

Knies has been on his line for the most part but talk about the playoffs being different we can see that marner lets us know when it’s that time of year he was our best player last year best player in mtl best forward in Florida’s series(that one’s more debatable ) I’m glad you know how to misdirect the issues the team has it’s not really him it’s other two guys who play together and don’t do enough for the 25% of the cap they get paid

 

[notbias]

He's versatile, but he doesn't have a signature move that's overwhelming. As a result there's more issues in creating his own offence.

So Ovi who stands on the dot and Draisaitl who relies on the PP/McDavid create more on their own?

I'm not buying it.

Ovi can score in different ways like Matthews, but he doesn't need to. He can just stay at his spot. It's why Stamkos is gonna age a lot better than Tavares. Ovi at this age, similar to Stamkos is a PP merchant. But lot of value in that.

Stamkos who has 14 points in 29 games?

I guess this is your opinion.

 

[Craig Button]

Matthews has been really bad this season and holds his line back.

We have to move him to the 3rd line

 

[sunstersun]

So Ovi who stands on the dot and Draisaitl who relies on the PP/McDavid create more on their own?

I'm not buying it.



Stamkos who has 14 points in 29 games?

I guess this is your opinion.

Yes, because anyone with a monkey's brain can pass it to Ovi or Drai's signature spot.

RIght now Matthews is struggling to goal score with a great playmaker.

 

[Antropovsky]

Yes, because anyone with a monkey's brain can pass it to Ovi or Drai's signature spot.

RIght now Matthews is struggling to goal score with a great playmaker.

Is Marner a great playmaker, or is Nylander, Matthews and Tavares elite goal scorers?

Each have proven to not need Marner to score. In fact expected goals for as a line was better for Matthews without Marner on 2024. Same with Tavares this years and not by a little.

2024 Matthews:

2025 Tavares:

 

[Puckstuff]

Is Marner a great playmaker, or is Nylander, Matthews and Tavares elite goal scorers?

Each have proven to not need Marner to score. In fact expected goals for as a line was better for Matthews without Marner on 2024. Same with Tavares this years and not by a little.

2024 Matthews:

View attachment 944564

2025 Tavares:
View attachment 944563

Would love to see these lines...

Knies-Matthews-Domi
Patches-Tavares-Nylander
McMann-Minten-Marner

 

[LeafsNet]

It’s an illusion. When Matthews is OUT of the lineup, the team elevates it’s play temporarily knowing he’ll be back in some capacity in the near future.

If Matthews was out for the rest of the season or traded away, the Leafs overall would downgrade significantly.

 

[ACC1224]

Would love to see these lines...

Knies-Matthews-Domi
Patches-Tavares-Nylander
McMann-Minten-Marner

Problem with that is the top line becomes much worse offensively and defensively.

 

[Antropovsky]

Problem with that is the top line becomes much worse offensively and defensively.

Wheres your proof of that? Last year with Domi instead of Marner, Matthews xgf was much higher and his xga was much lower.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Wheres your proof of that? Last year with Domi instead of Marner, Matthews xgf was much higher and his xga was much lower.

View attachment 944665

Not that I'm a Marner fan, but you are being extremely disingenuous here in your use of these stats, and I think you know it.

Using actual Gf/60 to show Domi and Nylander are better offensively with Matthews. But then you use xGa/60 to show they are better defensively. When in reality the actual Ga/60 is much worse for Domi (3.77) and Nylander (3.34) than they are for Marner (2.33).

The only player to have more goals scored against them per minute than Domi when they were on the ice together with Matthews was Reaves.

 

[Antropovsky]

Not that I'm a Marner fan, but you are being extremely disingenuous here in your use of these stats, and I think you know it.

Using actual Gf/60 to show Domi and Nylander are better offensively with Matthews. But then you use xGa/60 to show they are better defensively. When in reality the actual Ga/60 is much worse for Domi (3.77) and Nylander (3.34) than they are for Marner (2.33).

The only player to have more goals scored against them per minute than Domi when they were on the ice together with Matthews was Reaves.

Why did you just respond to my post for being "extremely disingenuous" but you didnt respond to the poster I quoted for being disingenuous?

Which statement is not true based on stats? Mine or theirs?

Statement 1:
Problem with that is the top line becomes much worse offensively and defensively.

Statement 2:
Wheres your proof of that? Last year with Domi instead of Marner, Matthews xgf was much higher and his xga was much lower.

let me explain.. last year with Domi, Matthews had significantly more g/60 than with Marner. So statement one makes no sense. In fact, Matthews points per/60 was actually higher without Marner both of the last two seasons. Making statement 1 even more ridiculous. Which is likely why that poster never uses stats to support his statements. Because he cant.

You're barking up the wrong tree if it is in fact disinguous statements you are worried about.

---

 

[sunstersun]

Not related, but Rielly is really worrying me. I wanted to trade him all offseason and this season is confirming my worst fears.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Why did you just respond to my post for being "extremely disingenuous" but you didnt respond to the poster I quoted for being disingenuous?

Which statement is not true based on stats? Mine or theirs?

Statement 1:
Problem with that is the top line becomes much worse offensively and defensively.

Statement 2:
Wheres your proof of that? Last year with Domi instead of Marner, Matthews xgf was much higher and his xga was much lower.

let me explain.. last year with Domi, Matthews had significantly more g/60 than with Marner. So statement one makes no sense. In fact, Matthews points per/60 was actually higher without Marner both of the last two seasons. Making statement 1 even more ridiculous. Which is likely why that poster never uses stats to support his statements. Because he cant.

You're barking up the wrong tree if it is in fact disinguous statements you are worried about.

---

You know what? You're right... carry on.