Are Sweden becoming worse?

[AB13]

LOL What swedish forward would make Team Russia again? Who does Sweden have in net? Yes, yes, the swedish D is top notch, but that's it.

The combined team overall would be Swedish dominated

Ovechkin - Pettersson - Kucherov
Panarin - Malkin - Nylander
Landeskog - Kuznetsov - Zibanejad
Svechnikov - Bäckström - Tarasenko
Kuznetsov


Hedman - Karlsson
Provorov - Dahlin
Ekman-Larsson - Klingberg
Lindholm

Vasilevsky
Markström

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Only Provorov would have a chance to make the team Sweden defense from Russia.

Sweden have much more depth at forward and on defence. Sweden have less high end first line talent, but are clearly better otherwise.

I'm agree with you. Sweden is the 3rd best nation in hockey but although Swedish hockey continues to increase, Russian hockey will be the 3rd nation in the long run.

Russia has already emerged as the best nation (GK) and has many very dominant players on offense, especially on the wing. Russia has a much less effective training, but it is a country of 150 million inhabitants. Like Czechoslovakia, Russia seems to have suffered from the collapse of the old communist system

In recent years, Russians have produced some interesting defenders (Mukhamadullin, Alexeyev, Romanov) who succeed Sergashev, Provorov and Zadorov. Russians are correcting an abnormality: that of not having produced a single good defender for more than 10 years (except Tyutin none between Markov 1978 and Orlov 1991).

The next drafts should see this progression increase with Chayka and Kirsanov for 2021. Mikhail Gulyayev (eligible in 2023) looks very strong.

 

[AB13]

I'm agree with you. Sweden is the 3rd best nation in hockey but although Swedish hockey continues to increase, Russian hockey will be the 3rd nation in the long run.

Russia has already emerged as the best nation as a goalkeeper and has many very dominant players on offense, especially on the wing.

Russia has a much less effective training, but it is a country of 150 million inhabitants.

Like Czechoslovakia, Russia seems to have suffered from the collapse of the old communist system

In recent years, the Russians have produced some interesting defenders (Mukhamadullin, Alexeyev, Romanov) who succeed Sergashev, Provorov and Zadorov. The Russians are correcting an abnormality: that of not having produced a single good defender for more than 10 years (between Markov 1978 and Orlov 1991).

The next drafts should see this progression increase with Chayka and Kirsanov for 2021. Mikhail Gulyayev (eligible in 2023) looks very strong.

Fair analysis. The Russians have great goalies and superb wing talent. Just need more center depth and for the young defensemen to pan out. Sweden have great youngsters too though, just as good.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

The level of nations evolves regularly.

Until the 1950s, Canada was alone in the world.

In the second half of the 20th century, competing nations emerged.

In 2000, Canada was the only dream team. USA and Russia were on the same level. Czechia was stronger than Sweden, Slovakia was stronger than Finland.

Today USA has become a second dream team. Slightly weaker than Canada. Sweden is ahead of Russia. Finland dumped Czechia. Slovakia has fallen to the level of Switzerland and Germany.

By 2030, the US will have caught up with Canada thanks to its demographic advantage, Russia will have caught up with Sweden for the same reason and the sum of Czech and Slovak talent should catch up with Finland because the training has become effective again.

As for the totality of the talents formed in the other nations, it will be superior to what it is today. A little more Belarusians, Germans, etc. Probably a Hungarian (Bence Horvath?), A Japanese will play in NHL.

Overall, almost all nations will have progressed.

We will probably talk about Canadian decline. But above all, it will be a relative decline. Because with Wright, Bedard, Savoie, Canada should have 3 exceptional players in 1 generation.

 

[Atas2000]

The combined team overall would be Swedish dominated

Ovechkin - Pettersson - Kucherov
Panarin - Malkin - Nylander
Landeskog - Kuznetsov - Zibanejad
Svechnikov - Bäckström - Tarasenko
Kuznetsov


Hedman - Karlsson
Provorov - Dahlin
Ekman-Larsson - Klingberg
Lindholm

Vasilevsky
Markström

Okay, biased fan, I get it. Now try again without bias.

Markstrom won't be Russia's 4th goalie. He is vastly overrated for some reason on here.

Landeskog is definitely not making Team Russia. I just spilled my water over Nylander. Again, I get the national bias. I get the bias from Toronto fans, but in reality nor him, nor Zibanejad is coming near Russia's RW. It is the best RW in the world and those two are great players and all, but a tier or two below making Team Russia in that position. As mentioned, I get the D(while at Klingberg and OEL we get into discussion territory), there might be an argument about centers(while Pttersson over Malkin is funny as f.... In five years maybe. Just as Backstrom over Kuznetsov), but wings, especially RW is where Sweden is lightyears behind Russia. Your post is the quintessence of bias.

Forwards and goaltending were always Sweden's Achiless' heel. With Lundkvist gone and maybe only Pettersson just emerging as a top tier talent and Backstrom starting to fade, that's just not enough.

 

[Lambo]

The combined team overall would be Swedish dominated

Ovechkin - Pettersson - Kucherov
Panarin - Malkin - Nylander
Landeskog - Kuznetsov - Zibanejad
Svechnikov - Bäckström - Tarasenko
Kuznetsov


Hedman - Karlsson
Provorov - Dahlin
Ekman-Larsson - Klingberg
Lindholm

Vasilevsky
Markström

Only Petterson is an option for russian offensive. The rest of swedes(offensive) are easy replaceable

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

As he said, Russians are very weak at the center position. Behind Malkin (35) and Kuznetsov, there is no one who has the level of the 5 best Swedish centers.

If a Swedish attacking genius is missing, the Swedish group of players is much more homogeneous and solid behind. As for the guard post, the Swedes, if they do not compete with the Russians, have never been so well armed. Lundqvist has long concealed Swedish poverty in this position. But today there is Lehner in 1, Markstrom in 2 and several Swedish NHL goalkeepers who follow. And of course, the talented Wallstedt in the years to come.

Today I am not even sure that the Russian Olympic team would be more talented than the Finnish Olympic team. But as already said, I think that it will evolve in favor of Russia because Russia has a huge margin of progress.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Okay, biased fan, I get it. Now try again without bias.

Markstrom won't be Russia's 4th goalie. He is vastly overrated for some reason on here.

Landeskog is definitely not making Team Russia. I just spilled my water over Nylander. Again, I get the national bias. I get the bias from Toronto fans, but in reality nor him, nor Zibanejad is coming near Russia's RW. It is the best RW in the world and those two are great players and all, but a tier or two below making Team Russia in that position. As mentioned, I get the D(while at Klingberg and OEL we get into discussion territory), there might be an argument about centers(while Pttersson over Malkin is funny as f.... In five years maybe. Just as Backstrom over Kuznetsov), but wings, especially RW is where Sweden is lightyears behind Russia. Your post is the quintessence of bias.

Forwards and goaltending were always Sweden's Achiless' heel. With Lundkvist gone and maybe only Pettersson just emerging as a top tier talent and Backstrom starting to fade, that's just not enough.

Only Petterson is an option for russian offensive. The rest of swedes(offensive) are easy replaceable

assuming this is russias lineup

Panarin - Malkin - Svechnikov
Ovechkin - Kuznetsov - Tarasenko
Gusev - Shipachyov - Kucherov
Kaprizov - Barbashev - Gurianov

please tell me how gusev, shipa, kaprizov, barbashev and gurianov is better than filip forsberg, elias pettersson, mika zibanejad, arvidsson and william nylander. i agree thought that russia have stronger forwards than sweden overall.

 

[Eye of Ra]

As he said, Russians are very weak at the center position. Behind Malkin (35) and Kuznetsov, there is no one who has the level of the 5 best Swedish centers.

If a Swedish attacking genius is missing, the Swedish group of players is much more homogeneous and solid behind. As for the guard post, the Swedes, if they do not compete with the Russians, have never been so well armed. Lundqvist has long concealed Swedish poverty in this position. But today there is Lehner in 1, Markstrom in 2 and several Swedish NHL goalkeepers who follow. And of course, the talented Wallstedt in the years to come.

Today I am not even sure that the Russian Olympic team would be more talented than the Finnish Olympic team. But as already said, I think that it will evolve in favor of Russia because Russia has a huge margin of progress.

russia has so many more active players than sweden...its a way bigger country so its not a suprise they have better offensive than us.

Thought i would say our former generations we had stronger forwards than russia:

Markus Näslund - Forsberg - Alfredsson
Sedin - Sedin - Zetterberg
Huselius - Sundin - Modin
Jönsson - M.Nylander - Holmström

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

You forgot Dadonov, Radulov and Buchnevich.

Russia Forwards 2006'
Ovechkin-Datsyuk-Afinogenov
Kovalchuk-Malkin-Kovalev
Vya.Kozlov-Yashin-Molgininy
Frolov-Fedorov-Zherdev

 

[Eye of Ra]

You forgot Dadonov, Radulov and Buchnevich.

ok. but there is no way i would choose any of them over filip forsberg, elias pettersson, mika zibanejad, arvidsson and william nylander.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

89 M.Zibanejad
87 E.Pettersson
87 W.Nylander
86 F.Forsberg
86 E.Dadonov
86 A.Radulov
85 V.Arvidsson
84 P.Buchnevich

These are the ratings I gave them on NHL 21.

 

[Lambo]

assuming this is russias lineup

Panarin - Malkin - Svechnikov
Ovechkin - Kuznetsov - Tarasenko
Gusev - Shipachyov - Kucherov
Kaprizov - Barbashev - Gurianov

please tell me how gusev, shipa, kaprizov, barbashev and gurianov is better than filip forsberg, elias pettersson, mika zibanejad, arvidsson and william nylander. i agree thought that russia have stronger forwards than sweden overall.

Not better but replaceable.

 

[Lambo]

89 M.Zibanejad
87 E.Pettersson
87 W.Nylander
86 F.Forsberg
86 E.Dadonov
86 A.Radulov
85 V.Arvidsson
84 P.Buchnevich

These are the ratings I gave them on NHL 21.

Very balanced!

 

[NoMessi]

@Lambo : Israel and Kazakhstan are in Asia and yet play European competitions. Australia is in Oceania and yet plays the Asian competitions. Turkey is by no means a European country. Neither geographically, nor geopolitically, nor culturally.

However, I live in France and Spain and I tell you sincerely about the situation in these countries by telling you that Handball and Basketball are at the same level of popularity very far behind Football but also behind Rugby ( for France), Tennis and Cycling. These two sports come next with Athletics and Swimming. I don't know where you live (North America, Northern Europe or Eastern Europe) but I find you very difficult to want to impose your point of view on a Franco-Spanish when he knows the situation in his country indefinitely more than you.

@Casanova : Sweden's good football performances are very old. I will waste my time debating a comparison between the level of Sweden and that of the countries you mention. Seen from France and Spain, Sweden is really not strong in Football. Absolutely nothing to do with Handball and Hockey.

That said, this is a hockey site, more specifically a topic that talks about Junior Sweden. I'm here to talk about Simon Edvinsson, Noah Ostlund, Alexander Suzmalev or Karl Sterner. If you want to talk about basketball or football, you have to go to more appropriate sites. In any case, it doesn't interest me, so the subject is closed. You don't even take my testimony into account anyway. Thank you.

A recap of the last World Cup:
First kicking out the Netherlands in the qualifiers. Only finishing behind the eventual winners France in the group.
Then kicking out Italy who then missed its first World Cup in forever.
Then winning the Group Stage giving Germany an early ticket home.
Then beating Switzerland and going to the Quarter finals.
All this without one of the best soccer players last 20 years Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Remeber also that we won the "group of death" in 2002, over England, Argentina and Nigeria.

As much as i dislike soccer, we are a strong soccer nation. While we are weaker than normal atm, we still have Kulusevski in Juventus, Lindelöf in Man Utd and Forsberg in Leipzig.

 

[Garl]

Okay, biased fan, I get it. Now try again without bias.

Markstrom won't be Russia's 4th goalie. He is vastly overrated for some reason on here.

Landeskog is definitely not making Team Russia. I just spilled my water over Nylander. Again, I get the national bias. I get the bias from Toronto fans, but in reality nor him, nor Zibanejad is coming near Russia's RW. It is the best RW in the world and those two are great players and all, but a tier or two below making Team Russia in that position. As mentioned, I get the D(while at Klingberg and OEL we get into discussion territory), there might be an argument about centers(while Pttersson over Malkin is funny as f.... In five years maybe. Just as Backstrom over Kuznetsov), but wings, especially RW is where Sweden is lightyears behind Russia. Your post is the quintessence of bias.

Forwards and goaltending were always Sweden's Achiless' heel. With Lundkvist gone and maybe only Pettersson just emerging as a top tier talent and Backstrom starting to fade, that's just not enough.

Funny you are talking about natoinal bias, being the homer that you are.

Markstrom and Lehner are TOP 10 goalies in the NHL at the moment

About Landeskog and Nylander, who on team Russia are ahead of them? Ovechkin, Panarin, Kucherov, Tarasenko(even though he is injured lately), thats it. Radulov and Svechnikov are not in another league compared to Landeskog and Nylander or Zibanejad.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

A recap of the last World Cup:
First kicking out the Netherlands in the qualifiers. Only finishing behind the eventual winners France in the group.
Then kicking out Italy who then missed its first World Cup in forever.
Then winning the Group Stage giving Germany an early ticket home.
Then beating Switzerland and going to the Quarter finals.
All this without one of the best soccer players last 20 years Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Remeber also that we won the "group of death" in 2002, over England, Argentina and Nigeria.

As much as i dislike soccer, we are a strong soccer nation. While we are weaker than normal atm, we still have Kulusevski in Juventus, Lindelöf in Man Utd and Forsberg in Leipzig.

A great football nation is Germany, Italy, France, Spain, England.

To compare with countries that have roughly equivalent demographics, Belgium, Netherlands, Croatia and Portugal are very much stronger.

Sweden has only been to the semi final of the Euro once, only twice in the quarter. Ok Sweden went to the quarterfinals of the last World Cup but where was Sweden in 98, 02, 06, 10 and 14? If we take stock since 1960, it is very poor. Many European nations have done better.

Denmark and Norway are currently stronger than Sweden.

 

[ijuka]

Sweden is quite lacking in super star level talent. Back in the day they used to have many high-end stars, now they have like, Hedman who isn't even on the level of prime Karlsson or Lidström, and in terms of offense they have nothing like the Sedins, Forsberg or even Sundin. For goalies they have no one like Lundqvist. It's safe to say that lately Sweden's downgraded itself in just about every category.

 

[perolofbrasar]

Sweden is quite lacking in super star level talent. Back in the day they used to have many high-end stars, now they have like, Hedman who isn't even on the level of prime Karlsson or Lidström, and in terms of offense they have nothing like the Sedins, Forsberg or even Sundin. For goalies they have no one like Lundqvist. It's safe to say that lately Sweden's downgraded itself in just about every category.

I will give you a somewhat philosophical (and maybe controversial) bird's eye view of recent years:

The improvement of development of technical individual skills has been great, as in most hockey nations.

The improvement, and understanding, of how to create an athlete fit for hockey has also vastly improved. However, the understanding that you may not need to be a 100% finished product in that regard at 16-17, or even 18-19 has been somewhat lost in translation.

This takes some talent but mostly a lot of practice hours.


The understanding and importance of the grey stuff between the player's ears in order to see, create and beat THE GAME has been increasingly overlooked and put in the backseat. Which is very sad, as it is a great Swedish tradition and also clearly illustrated with the player names in the quote above.

This is basically only talent.

 

[Eye of Ra]

A great football nation is Germany, Italy, France, Spain, England.

To compare with countries that have roughly equivalent demographics, Belgium, Netherlands, Croatia and Portugal are very much stronger.

Sweden has only been to the semi final of the Euro once, only twice in the quarter. Ok Sweden went to the quarterfinals of the last World Cup but where was Sweden in 98, 02, 06, 10 and 14? If we take stock since 1960, it is very poor. Many European nations have done better.

Denmark and Norway are currently stronger than Sweden.

how is denmark and norway currently stronger than sweden. norway could not even beat us in 2 games and did not even qualify to WC. Sweden is playing in higest level in Nations League, Denmark and Norway are not.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

False. Sweden finished last in their group and move down to League B to join Norway. Denmark finished 2nd in their group in League A.

I don't see a Swedish player coming close to Haaland's ankle. And the whole team is about the same level as the Swedish team.

 

[Eye of Ra]

False. Sweden finished last in their group and move down to League B to join Norway. Denmark finished 2nd in their group in League A.

I don't see a Swedish player coming close to Haaland's ankle. Not one get to Odegaard's hip. And the whole team is about the same level as the Swedish team.

Sweden where just playing in Leauge A, thought.

Zlatan is for sure on the same level as Haaland, rumours is that he is getting back with the national team. I would say Kulusevski is just as good as Odeegard.

 

[karhukissa]

Markus Näslund - Forsberg - Alfredsson
Sedin - Sedin - Zetterberg
Huselius - Sundin - Modin

Obviously Sweden is worse currently if you're looking at this lineup, that top-6 would challenge current Canada's top-6 quite easily. For countries like Sweden and Finland it's simply not possible to have this kinda batch of players every year. Finland got lucky with players born in 95-99 and our golden generation is yet to come.

Sweden is now living this post Sedins/Zetterbergs time, and obviously it takes some time and years to have that star power back. Sweden has more depth than ever which is great, but for us smaller countries it's not very likely to have many consecutive draft classes with potential superstars. It doesn't tell about player developing, it's just luck that these diamonds were born within 1-7 years so all could play together at their prime.

 

[NoMessi]

A great football nation is Germany, Italy, France, Spain, England.

To compare with countries that have roughly equivalent demographics, Belgium, Netherlands, Croatia and Portugal are very much stronger.

Sweden has only been to the semi final of the Euro once, only twice in the quarter. Ok Sweden went to the quarterfinals of the last World Cup but where was Sweden in 98, 02, 06, 10 and 14? If we take stock since 1960, it is very poor. Many European nations have done better.

Denmark and Norway are currently stronger than Sweden.

Still have the same amount of medals at the World Cup as those bolded. Just because we have some down years doesnt mean we are a bad football country. In down years we stil achieved things I told you before.

And how is Norway stronger when we just kicked them out of the Euro Qualifiers?

You have no knowledge about history or even present.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Your statistic is very restrictive and is based on very old facts. I said it before: seen from France, Sweden sucks. We had practically all the best Swedes in our championship, we saw that Ibrahimovic was weak against the strong with Paris, Kenneth Andersson, Kim Kallstrom, Peter Hansson were average players. A player like Isaac Kiese Thelin is really bad for Ligue 1.

If you find that you have a good football team, you have a big evaluation problem. And it's much worse than not knowing Sweden's palmares by heart.

I've seen them play several lately; Sweden plays poor football. At the limit I found Sweden more interesting 20 years ago with young Ibrahimovic, Larsson, Ljungberg, Mellberg, P.Andersson.

I much prefer Norway which will be able to count on an elite world player for the coming decade. Someone compared to Ibrahimovic and Haaland. I think they will make the same career. Except that Ibrahimovic is the past, Haaland is the future. About Denmark, there is absolutely no debate.