World Cup: Anyone else think the Pools are rigged?

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Given the top 2 teams from each pool advanced, I guess they decided to rig this tournament to make it as likely as possible that US and Canada advance - giving them the 2 weakest teams in the tournament. Group B is loaded in comparison

Group A
Canada
USA
Europe
Czech Republic

Group B
Russia
Sweden
Finland
North America

Just seems wrong to me that two of those teams in group B won't move on. Maybe I am missing something? Or was this intentionally set up this way to get the best ratings?

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[Shrimper]

I'm guessing it was done for ratings.

 

[ijuka]

Yep, USA is likely to be #2 of group A like this. If they replaced anyone on group B they'd be essentially guaranteed to be #4.

Leave it up to Kopitar to throw a wrench in those plans, though.



However, what they should have done is have team Canada swap places with team NA. That way they'd have Canada, USA and Team NA in the semis essentially guaranteed.

 

[Nordic*]

Yes. Czechs and Europe have the worst individual players in this tourny, along with Finland. But Finland has that amazing team play that no other team comes close to.

North America, Sweden and Russia are all much more stacked than those two though.

Fair groups would probably be..

USA
Russia
North America
Czech Rep

Canada
Sweden
Finland
Europe



My rank is

Canada
USA/Russia/Sweden
Finland/U-24
Europe
Czechs



Hard to know how good U-24 will be. Individual talent is even higher than Sweden's. Especially among forwards.

 

[BB88]

Given the top 2 teams from each pool advanced, I guess they decided to rig this tournament to make it as likely as possible that US and Canada advance - giving them the 2 weakest teams in the tournament. Group B is loaded in comparison

Group A
Canada
USA
Europe
Czech Republic

Group B
Russia
Sweden
Finland
North America

Just seems wrong to me that two of those teams in group B won't move on. Maybe I am missing something? Or was this intentionally set up this way to get the best ratings?

I hadn't checked that, damm then it's going to be tough for us Finns to get to medal games

 

[JackSlater]

Rigged isn't the word. I believe it was said at the time the groups were announced that the NHL didn't want Canada and USA in the same group as the Young Gunz,possibly because Hockey Canada and USA Hockey didn't want players playing against their own country. Can't remember exactly. I don't know if things were organized to give anyone an easier path though.

 

[ijuka]

Rigged isn't the word. I believe it was said at the time the groups were announced that the NHL didn't want Canada and USA in the same group as the Young Gunz,possibly because Hockey Canada and USA Hockey didn't want players playing against their own country. Can't remember exactly. I don't know if things were organized to give anyone an easier path though.

This is understandable and I don't mind this logic. However, what is the reason that they could not have switched one of Finland or Russia or Sweden with one of Europe or Czechia?


Well, not that I really mind, anyway. Finland has some juicy history with both Sweden and Russia. Czechia, Canada, USA and Europe would pale in comparison. All is good as long as Finland wins.

 

[Seanaconda]

This is understandable and I don't mind this logic. However, what is the reason that they could not have switched one of Finland or Russia or Sweden with one of Europe or Czechia?


Well, not that I really mind, anyway. Finland has some juicy history with both Sweden and Russia. Czechia, Canada, USA and Europe would pale in comparison. All is good as long as Finland wins.

Hmm they wouldn't switch Sweden or Russia because they complete the big 4 so there is a chance to have the best on paper teams in the final.

So you would have to switch Finland out and that probably would be worse for your team ( I think you have a better chance of beating Russia than team canada or usa )

 

[ijuka]

Hmm they wouldn't switch Sweden or Russia because they complete the big 4 so there is a chance to have the best on paper teams in the final.

So you would have to switch Finland out and that probably would be worse for your team ( I think you have a better chance of beating Russia than team canada or usa )

You think that USA is a part of "the big 4" in this tournament? I'd rate them as #6 personally but I see no way of them being above #5.

And I disagree, USA is an easier opponent for Finland than any team in Group B.

Oh, and you might want to take a look at the history of olympics and best-on-best tournaments. Let me assist:

2014 Finland Bronze

2010 Finland Bronze

2006 Finland Silver

2004 WC Finland Silver

Hence, I'm curious about why you think Finland isn't a part of the "big 4". I'd say that Finland has been the second-best hockey country in the world in best-on-best tournaments relatively recently. Either way, you can't really argue this for anyone but Sweden and even then Finland would be #3 pretty comfortably.

 

[xxxx]

This is understandable and I don't mind this logic. However, what is the reason that they could not have switched one of Finland or Russia or Sweden with one of Europe or Czechia?


Well, not that I really mind, anyway. Finland has some juicy history with both Sweden and Russia. Czechia, Canada, USA and Europe would pale in comparison. All is good as long as Finland wins.

When you look at the strenght of the teams, you have the big four national teams of Canada, US, Sweden, and Russia. You have 2/2 in each group. Then you have the two things 1) you want the NAU24 team to face only european teams, that simply makes a lot of sense, 2) you want Team Europe to take on both US and Canada, from the same reasons. Another thing is that Europe is certainly not a weak team. Given the background of USA vs Canada, and Sweden vs Finland vs Russia rivalries, I think the groups are set almost perfectly.

edit: people are underrating the US so much.... I'm pretty sure they will be surprised how good they're going to play. I bet that they will beat Finland in the last pre-tournament game.

 

[ijuka]

When you look at the strenght of the teams, you have the big four national teams of Canada, US, Sweden, and Russia. You have 2/2 in each group. Then you have the two things 1) you want the NAU24 team to face only european teams, that simply makes a lot of sense, 2) you want Team Europe to take on both US and Canada, from the same reasons. Another thing is that Europe is certainly not a weak team. Given the background of USA vs Canada, and Sweden vs Finland vs Russia rivalries, I think the groups are set almost perfectly.

edit: people are underrating the US so much.... I'm pretty sure you will be surprised how good they're going to play. I bet that they will beat Finland in the last pre-tournament game.

So Finland has a medal(Aka top 3) and average 2.5th place in the past 4 international best-on-best tournaments through the last 12 years but they are outside of the top 4? Interesting logic on display here.

 

[Seanaconda]

You think that USA is a part of "the big 4" in this tournament? I'd rate them as #6 personally but I see no way of them being above #5.

And I disagree, USA is an easier opponent for Finland than any team in Group B.

Oh, and you might want to take a look at the history of olympics and best-on-best tournaments. Let me assist:

2014 Finland Bronze

2010 Finland Bronze

2006 Finland Silver

2004 WC Finland Silver

Hence, I'm curious about why you think Finland isn't a part of the "big 4". I'd say that Finland has been the second-best hockey country in the world in best-on-best tournaments relatively recently.

USA didn't take the best team they could of but yes I consider canada usa Sweden and Russia as the big 4 in terms of talent they can put on the ice.

Finland does always work super well as a team tho and I consider them the 5th best team when nations talent are concerned.

Team north America throws a wrench in things tho because they could end up being the best to worst team.

 

[ijuka]

USA didn't take the best team they could of but yes I consider canada usa Sweden and Russia as the big 4 in terms of talent they can put on the ice.

Finland does always work super well as a team tho and I consider them the 5th best team when nations talent are concerned.

Team north America throws a wrench in things tho because they could end up being the best to worst team.

So let's get this straight,

Finland's placements in last 4 best-on-best tournaments:

3. 3. 2. 2.

USA's placements in the last 4 best-on-best tournaments:

4. 2. 8. 4.

Russia's placements in the last 4 best-on-best tournaments:

5. 6. 4. 6.


And you are saying Finland doesn't belong ahead of these countries?

Here's Sweden:

2. 5. 1. 5.

I'd argue that Finland would belong ahead of even Sweden but I do recognize the value of a gold medal.

How often do you think that Finland had the highest "NHL salary" or whatever metric you want to use in these best-on-best tournaments? Is that more important than results now?

 

[Seanaconda]

So Finland has a medal(Aka top 3) and average 2.5th place in the past 4 international best-on-best tournaments through the last 12 years but they are outside of the top 4? Interesting logic on display here.

It would either be you switching with the Czech or Russia with them not wanting team north America to not play usa or Canada before the finals. Russia vs canada and Russia vs usa Is super marketable if they reach the finals.

I don't think you could have canada usa and Sweden in the preliminary rounds

 

[Seanaconda]

So let's get this straight,

Finland's placements in last 4 best-on-best tournaments:

3. 3. 2. 2.

USA's placements in the last 4 best-on-best tournaments:

4. 2. 8. 4.

Russia's placements in the last 4 best-on-best tournaments:

5. 6. 4. 6.


And you are saying Finland doesn't belong ahead of these countries?

Here's Sweden:

2. 5. 1. 5.

I'd argue that Finland would belong ahead of even Sweden but I do recognize the value of a gold medal.

How often do you think that Finland had the highest "NHL salary" or whatever metric you want to use in these best-on-best tournaments? Is that more important than results now?

If Finland is better than Sweden and Russia why are you upset you're paired with them usa placed better than Russia so you should be happy?

 

[ijuka]

If Finland is better than Sweden and Russia why are you upset you're paired with them

I'm upset about you saying Finland isn't a part of the big 4. I already said I don't mind Finland being paired with them. Finland has silver in the last world cup, medals in the 3 past olympics and is #3 on the world ranking, yet they apparently aren't top 4.

 

[xxxx]

So Finland has a medal(Aka top 3) and average 2.5th place in the past 4 international best-on-best tournaments through the last 12 years but they are outside of the top 4? Interesting logic on display here.

I'm talking roster strenght right now, otherwise we could place North America 7th or 8th because we don't know what they are all about, but clearly everyone knows they are better than 7th or 8th, even though they have never played before together as a team.

 

[snipes]

USA didn't take the best team they could of but yes I consider canada usa Sweden and Russia as the big 4 in terms of talent they can put on the ice.

Finland does always work super well as a team tho and I consider them the 5th best team when nations talent are concerned.

Team north America throws a wrench in things tho because they could end up being the best to worst team.

Any conversation of "Big ____" deserves Finland being mention. Finland is a major hockey power.

 

[Seanaconda]

I'm upset about you saying Finland isn't a part of the big 4. I already said I don't mind Finland being paired with them. Finland has silver in the last world cup, medals in the 3 past olympics and is #3 on the world ranking, yet they apparently aren't top 4.

Hmm I think Finland plays better as a team than any other country but have played above the talent level of their players . But how would you rank the top 4 ? I would maybe switch Russia out for Finland.

But Russia always has such good forward talent even tho they normally suck at big events probably because they have weak defense . Canada is top I'd say. Sweden has such a good blue line and usa has enough good players if they picked the team right they have a chance to win every year.

But Finland's coaching and ability to play as a team makes them always a threat to beat those 4 teams Got alot of young talent getting older to

 

[NickLidstrom]

So Finland has a medal(Aka top 3) and average 2.5th place in the past 4 international best-on-best tournaments through the last 12 years but they are outside of the top 4? Interesting logic on display here.

Most players on the Olympic teams are not in the current roster.

 

[BB88]

I'm talking roster strenght right now, otherwise we could place North America 7th or 8th because we don't know what they are all about, but clearly everyone knows they are better than 7th or 8th, even though they have never played before together as a team.

Finland has said great success in the past but on paper today we have the 3rd worst team.

 

[authentic]

That's not too bad, I wouldn't go as far as to say it was rigged.

 

[Past Considerations]

Rigged for ratings. USA and CAN are in the same group so they play against each other at least once, and same for Sweden-Finland-Russia I guess.

The groups aren't based on any previous results or rankings (like it is the case for example with IIHF WCs and Olympics) or even just draw/lottery. Just pulled out of a hat.

This is my other main gripe with this tournament (along with the obvious lack of qualification and the two you know what teams).

 

[Past Considerations]

Rigged isn't the word. I believe it was said at the time the groups were announced that the NHL didn't want Canada and USA in the same group as the Young Gunz,possibly because Hockey Canada and USA Hockey didn't want players playing against their own country. Can't remember exactly. I don't know if things were organized to give anyone an easier path though.

Ironic. Perhaps they should have made their opinion known before NHL decided to include these two joke(r) teams.

 

[Zine]

Im guessing this was done for ratings. What else can the NHL do in the name of entertainment?? Moving nets?...a disco ball over center ice?