Anyone else feel you cant just analyze secondary assists at face value?

[Bjornar Moxnes]

The argument many people make is secondary assists are a lot less meaningful and showcase less skill than primary points. But imho, I think you have to specifically watch every goal to determine whether or not the secondary assist was the weaker point.

If a player briefly touched the puck while the primary point producers did everything else, then yeah the secondary assist was irrelevant. However, if the secondary assist happened due to one player keeping the puck in the zone along with excellent shielding and drawing players toward him, then dishing off an excellent pass, which results into a shot, and finally a rebound tip/deflection for a goal, then the secondary assist producer clearly did the bulk work and was the most important player in that sequence.

I do think for wingers secondary assists are more likely to not be as impactful. But for centres and especially defenseman, secondary assists can be just as important if not more than primary once you watch and analyze how the goal was created.

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[thrillhous]

Yes I think we all agree on that but I think we also also agree that it’s fun to rag on secondary assists because you gotta rag on something.

 

[Ratsreign]

The argument many people make is secondary assists are a lot less meaningful and showcase less skill than primary points. But imho, I think you have to specifically watch every goal to determine whether or not the secondary assist was the weaker point.

If a player briefly touched the puck while the primary point producers did everything else, then yeah the secondary assist was irrelevant. However, if the secondary assist happened due to one player keeping the puck in the zone along with excellent shielding and drawing players toward him, then dishing off an excellent pass, which results into a shot, and finally a rebound tip/deflection for a goal, then the secondary assist producer clearly did the bulk work and was the most important player in that sequence.

I do think for wingers secondary assists are more likely to not be as impactful. But for centres and especially defenseman, secondary assists can be just as important if not more than primary once you watch and analyze how the goal was created.

That’s exactly why the second assist exists, it’s often the catalyst for the entire play.

 

[PlayersLtd]

The people who downplay secondary assists must have brain aneurysms over the fact that goals and assists are weighted equally as one single point.

 

[Bard Marchand]

Of course some secondaries are more important than others.

This is why teams either have their own analytics departments or pay for private analytics so stuff like this can be tracked.

 

[daver]

Often secondary assists occur from sloppy play.

 

[ijuka]

You cannot analyze secondary assists, nor primary assists, nor goals, at face value.

The argument many people make is secondary assists are a lot less meaningful and showcase less skill than primary points. But imho, I think you have to specifically watch every goal to determine whether or not the secondary assist was the weaker point.

But we're dealing with averages here. Secondary assists are less predictive of success than primary assists or goals. This is verifiable by just looking at data.

 

[Mulletman]

The biggest problem with secondary assists are that they are given out even when the goal scorer has the actual secondary assist and the guy getting the secondary assist is in fact the 3rd assist. If they would drop the secondary assist in cases like that we would get a much more accurate picture.

 

[Signupnow]

To me secondary assists should hold no value. Even i can get a secondary assist in NHL and i havent been on ice since i was 7. Say i am the goalie and i gently pass the puck to Bobby orr who bring it up to wayne who shots it in the goal. What did i do here that could be as meaningful as the goal?

It doesnt have to be orr or wayne it can be Cale and Mcdavid too. it should be 0,25 0,5 for secondary/primary/1 for goal if anything.

 

[hatterson]

To me secondary assists should hold no value. Even i can get a secondary assist in NHL and i havent been on ice since i was 7. Say i am the goalie and i gently pass the puck to Bobby orr who bring it up to wayne who shots it in the goal. What did i do here that could be as meaningful as the goal?

It doesnt have to be orr or wayne it can be Cale and Mcdavid too. it should be 0,25 0,5 for secondary/primary/1 for goal if anything.

Or let’s say you deke out the entire team and have the goalie spinning in circles, then thread an insane pass across to a guy who misses the puck but has it bounce off his knee and to another of your teammates who slides it 6 inches into an open net. You did basically everything for that goal.

The analysis on secondary assists doesn’t say they’re *worthless*, it says they have much less predictive power than primary assists or goals (and thus presumably are less a measure of skill).

Players who help drive play and consistent positively contribute to their team offensively will generally end up with more secondary assists than players who suck, but there’s still a ton of variance.

 

[Ratsreign]

To me secondary assists should hold no value. Even i can get a secondary assist in NHL and i havent been on ice since i was 7. Say i am the goalie and i gently pass the puck to Bobby orr who bring it up to wayne who shots it in the goal. What did i do here that could be as meaningful as the goal?

It doesnt have to be orr or wayne it can be Cale and Mcdavid too. it should be 0,25 0,5 for secondary/primary/1 for goal if anything.

That’s a very narrow minded, inaccurate way to look at it, though. There are many plays on the flip side of this, plays where the second assist was the real playmaker.

 

[JPT]

Never heard this idea before tbh

 

[Randyne]

I do think for wingers secondary assists are more likely to not be as impactful.

Why? They are very impactful, but they aren't counted. That's the problem. Or give A2 for wingers too or get rid of it.

 

[Ignatius]

***SIDNEY CROSBY HAS ENTERED THE CHAT

 

[Signupnow]

That’s a very narrow minded, inaccurate way to look at it, though. There are many plays on the flip side of this, plays where the second assist was the real playmaker.

Yes but it is 90% of the time harder to score a goal than getting a secondary assist. There may be some outliner secondary assist where this person beat a whole team and do a spinorama to someone who pass to someone who score. But 90% of the cases it isnt that.

 

[dgibb10]

This is where things like analytics come into play to look deeper into what players are actually doing onto the ice.

Unfortunately NHL fans live in the stone age and are convinced "which team generates more shot attempts" is an advanced stat, or with any stat that isolates EV or 5v5 play, or any stat that is /60

Baseball, Football, Basketball are so many lightyears ahead of Hockey when it comes to understanding of stats it's hilarious.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Often secondary assists occur from sloppy play.

So do goals. Should those not count either if a puck bounces off a player, or a defender bobbles it into his own net?

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I like secondary assists. They help to emphasize that hockey is a team sport. A subtle way to show the spirit of hockey compared to other sports

Of course, when it comes to comparing two players, people online are going to use whatever statistics make their guy look better lol

 

[sinDer]

The argument many people make is secondary assists are a lot less meaningful and showcase less skill than primary points.

I don't know many people think this way, not if they know hockey.

 

[Signupnow]

I don't know many people think this way, not if they know hockey.

So you dont think passing to the guy who make the final play to score the goal is easier than scoring the goal? Ask yourself, Would you be able to be on an NHL team and fumble your way up the ice and score a goal against defenders and an NHL goalie or would it be more likely for you to get a point by passing it to Mackinnon a few times and hope that he get it up the ice and score?

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Eng shouldn’t count as goals. The scorer should just be happy his team won. They can count as honorary goals.

 

[daver]

So do goals. Should those not count either if a puck bounces off a player, or a defender bobbles it into his own net?

Perhaps, I am just not a fan of sloppy secondaries.

 

[Ratsreign]

So you dont think passing to the guy who make the final play to score the goal is easier than scoring the goal? Ask yourself, Would you be able to be on an NHL team and fumble your way up the ice and score a goal against defenders and an NHL goalie or would it be more likely for you to get a point by passing it to Mackinnon a few times and hope that he get it up the ice and score?

Again, a narrow minded way to look at it. There are many instances of the second assist being the most difficult or even beautiful part of the play.

Perhaps, I am just not a fan of sloppy secondaries.

Are you a fan of the ones where it was a great play to set it all up?

 

[dukeofjive]

To be honest the only times I have read up or heard about secondary assists it’s from fans or bloggers who try to paint someone as not as good because they got a lot of secondary assist.

 

[kerrabria]

It’s difficult to compared assists face value. This is why we have a trophy for most goals and in a tie, Art Ross goes to the greater goal scorer.

This is another reason why I’m so skeptical of offensive d-men who suck in their own zone but also aren’t goal scorers in their own right.