Player Discussion: Anthony Cirelli

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I think it's more that his speed is coming back. Gradually. He lost a footrace he would normally have won last night, but it was close, whereas two weeks ago he wouldn't have even been in the camera shot.

Agree, still that line is garbage. Maybe a fresh Joseph would provide a spark. Wont happen, but still.

 

[Byrddog]

Agree, still that line is garbage. Maybe a fresh Joseph would provide a spark. Wont happen, but still.

Joseph is nothing but an AHL guy and to this point Stephens and Verhaghe are little more than 4th liners who can play up two the 3rd at times. None of the three have shown any ability to finish in the NHL. You can be the fastest player on the team and still not be a hockey player. I do not even want joseph to get another minute here he is that bad, along the boards he ends up on his ass more times than not his passing ability is horrid even though he does try to pass like a seasoned veteran, he skates with his head down the vast majority of time which will in this league get you concussed. There are no positives he has shown since his initial stint in the line-up, remember there is a reason he was sent back down.

 

[BowDownToVasilevskiy]

Cirelli finishes 4th in Selke voting

 

[HoseEmDown]

Joseph is nothing but an AHL guy and to this point Stephens and Verhaghe are little more than 4th liners who can play up two the 3rd at times. None of the three have shown any ability to finish in the NHL. You can be the fastest player on the team and still not be a hockey player. I do not even want joseph to get another minute here he is that bad, along the boards he ends up on his ass more times than not his passing ability is horrid even though he does try to pass like a seasoned veteran, he skates with his head down the vast majority of time which will in this league get you concussed. There are no positives he has shown since his initial stint in the line-up, remember there is a reason he was sent back down.

Joseph had more goals than Palat and the same as JT Miller last season. He wasn't as good this year but he has shown he can finish in this league just as well as established players.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

Cirelli finishes 4th in Selke voting

3rd year in a row Point is in top 10. Cirelli was 11th in 2019. I wonder if they’ll take votes away from one another next season and beyond.

 

[bov]

More 1st place votes than O'Reilly, people are starting to take notice. Happy for Cirelli, he deserves the recognition. To be so young in his NHL career and get that kind of responsibility and respect, pretty awesome I'd say.

 

[DFC]

Cirelli actually wound up with 3rd most 1st place votes, if I'm reading that correctly.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

How does Panarin get one 1st place vote? Lmao.

Maybe they need to re think how these awards are determined.

 

[ViD]

Markus Nutivaara (young LHD on a cheap contract)+ Liam Foudy(1st round pick with NHL experience) + Columbus 2020 1st round pick for Cirelli

What do you say?

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Markus Nutivaara (young LHD on a cheap contract)+ Liam Foudy(1st round pick with NHL experience) + Columbus 2020 1st round pick for Cirelli

What do you say?

Pretty good offer. I would prefer to keep him but if we have to trade him, would definitely prefer a return like this over offer sheet compensation.

 

[Sky04]

Pretty good offer. I would prefer to keep him but if we have to trade him, would definitely prefer a return like this over offer sheet compensation.

Same, if we lose 1 RFA it's not the end of the world, our core is locked up anyways. Re-coup some picks for a potential deadline move.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Markus Nutivaara (young LHD on a cheap contract)+ Liam Foudy(1st round pick with NHL experience) + Columbus 2020 1st round pick for Cirelli

What do you say?

Value wise it's a good offer but it doesn't make any sense to us. Nutivarra is a LD and isn't better than Hedman, McDonagh or Sergachev so wouldn't be a starter and I don't even know if he can play the right. Foudy is a good prospect a likely 2C but Cirelli is already a proven 2C. The 1st is a 1st. We take in 3.6M in cap and more if Foudy hits some bonuses. Might as well just give that money to Cirelli.

 

[Byrddog]

Value wise it's a good offer but it doesn't make any sense to us. Nutivarra is a LD and isn't better than Hedman, McDonagh or Sergachev so wouldn't be a starter and I don't even know if he can play the right. Foudy is a good prospect a likely 2C but Cirelli is already a proven 2C. The 1st is a 1st. We take in 3.6M in cap and more if Foudy hits some bonuses. Might as well just give that money to Cirelli.

AT this point I am not in favor of paying Cirelli. He has not shown NOTHING in the last 18 games that indicate he can cut it at 2C and was a complete failure with juck and Palat. If Pointe is out now Coop needs to put the triples back together and how the majic lights there again. Cirelli is a offensive blackhole right now. 5 points in 18 games and -4. We can not even defend him as the best defensive forward now he is getting smoked by Coleman and Goodrow and is no better than Killer now.

 

[HoseEmDown]

AT this point I am not in favor of paying Cirelli. He has not shown NOTHING in the last 18 games that indicate he can cut it at 2C and was a complete failure with juck and Palat. If Pointe is out now Coop needs to put the triples back together and how the majic lights there again. Cirelli is a offensive blackhole right now. 5 points in 18 games and -4. We can not even defend him as the best defensive forward now he is getting smoked by Coleman and Goodrow and is no better than Killer now.

In 10-11 Stamkos played his first playoffs. He had 13 points in 18 games, much better than Cirelli's 5 points. But if you look at ES scoring Stamkos has just 3g 4a 7p, Cirelli is at 2g 3a 5p right now. So ES wise it's not that different. Stamkos was also coming off a 45g 91p regular season. He was a far superior offensive player but wasn't lighting it up on the scoreboard especially at ES. Cirelli isn't having the best postseason but he's shown enough in the regular season that he can be a 2C. He definitely needs to find a different gear for the playoffs though.

 

[DeeVeeUss]

AT this point I am not in favor of paying Cirelli. He has not shown NOTHING in the last 18 games that indicate he can cut it at 2C and was a complete failure with juck and Palat. If Pointe is out now Coop needs to put the triples back together and how the majic lights there again. Cirelli is a offensive blackhole right now. 5 points in 18 games and -4. We can not even defend him as the best defensive forward now he is getting smoked by Coleman and Goodrow and is no better than Killer now.

Johnsons a passenger now, even with Kuch & Palat I don't feel confident in him suddenly finding his game 19 games into the playoffs

 

[DFC]

Johnsons a passenger now, even with Kuch & Palat I don't feel confident in him suddenly finding his game 19 games into the playoffs

He's been better than Cirelli though. Gourde is our best center when Point is out of the line up, but breaking up that 3rd line is a big gamble.

Last night was the first time Cirelli looked legitimately fast, so I still think he's gradually improving. So hopefully he breaks through soon. But so far in these playoffs he's been pretty bad. I don't think it will affect his negotiations because I think he's pretty obviously playing hurt.

 

[Sky04]

He's been better than Cirelli though. Gourde is our best center when Point is out of the line up, but breaking up that 3rd line is a big gamble.

Last night was the first time Cirelli looked legitimately fast, so I still think he's gradually improving. So hopefully he breaks through soon. But so far in these playoffs he's been pretty bad. I don't think it will affect his negotiations because I think he's pretty obviously playing hurt.

I don't think it's that big a gamble, that line is all about forechecking and Cirelli can do that in spades, they also play a less creative game which might actually help him produce.

 

[Byrddog]

He's been better than Cirelli though. Gourde is our best center when Point is out of the line up, but breaking up that 3rd line is a big gamble.

Last night was the first time Cirelli looked legitimately fast, so I still think he's gradually improving. So hopefully he breaks through soon. But so far in these playoffs he's been pretty bad. I don't think it will affect his negotiations because I think he's pretty obviously playing hurt.

How can it not effect his negation's? With he Sergi, Cernak all needing qualifying offers and eventual new contracts on a team strapped for cash and facing moving performing guys in order to sign RFA's. There is a number each of these guys has on there head and if they hold out for more then they are expendable. Even bridges are going to be costly because in two years when they are up guess who is up again as well yep Pointer. At that point there is no way you allow Cernak, Sergi, or Pointe move. The question is do you face the bear during this and move Cirelli while he has some value left because even at his best he is not close to Pointe, not by a long shot. Now that said I was against bridging Pointe because his next contract is going to be above 9 mil he should have been signed at 8mil for as many as the GM could have got. But here we are and you are correct Yanni has been the second best center on the team for much of this season especially after adding at the deadline and while he is one of my favorites hes not a 2C. Then there is Killer a guy who does anything asked of him on any line and on special teams he is a 18 goal guy getting you 40 points per and he and Yanni have been the best along the boards we have for a while. The best thing for this entire situation would be to convince Stamkos to either waive to trade or to got to LTIR but at 30 it does not seem plausable for either.

The most sensable thing to do at this point is to move Cirelli sign Verhaeghe to a cost controlled bridge slide him into the 2C, Sign Sergi at something like 4.5 increasing to 5.5 for 6 years give Cernak 2.5 to 3.5 according to length of contract going to have to backfill the D then Bogo and Shatt are gone Sign Goodrow and Coleman. But to do this wither Johnson or Palat have to go.

 

[Byrddog]

In 10-11 Stamkos played his first playoffs. He had 13 points in 18 games, much better than Cirelli's 5 points. But if you look at ES scoring Stamkos has just 3g 4a 7p, Cirelli is at 2g 3a 5p right now. So ES wise it's not that different. Stamkos was also coming off a 45g 91p regular season. He was a far superior offensive player but wasn't lighting it up on the scoreboard especially at ES. Cirelli isn't having the best postseason but he's shown enough in the regular season that he can be a 2C. He definitely needs to find a different gear for the playoffs though.

To compare Cirelli to Stamkos is absurd. Stammer is a sniper that can finish, most of Cirelli's goals have come from the dirty area in front of the net even strength or on the PP. If he has a guy like Stammer, Kuch on his wing yes he is more productive but tell me who would not be?????? Thing is Pointe went down and he has had better part of three games with Kuch and Palat and has looked poor in the playoffs granted there is an injury or something but to think that if Point were to have a broken leg or something Stamko's wise for a extended period few would agree that Cirelli could step up and be good enough on the 1st line to carry us thru. While the option is always there to move Stammer back to the center this loses productivity from Stammer. I mean it is a good problem to have Stammer on a wing with center depth but Cirelli is a good two way center not great good. He has no ability to play wing and can be expendable with this roster. Spending a good chunk on him is unadvisable due to the new contract that will be needed for Point before we know it and the Cap is not going up for quite some time.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

It's time for him to stand up and be counted.

 

[Sky04]

How can it not effect his negation's? With he Sergi, Cernak all needing qualifying offers and eventual new contracts on a team strapped for cash and facing moving performing guys in order to sign RFA's. There is a number each of these guys has on there head and if they hold out for more then they are expendable. Even bridges are going to be costly because in two years when they are up guess who is up again as well yep Pointer. At that point there is no way you allow Cernak, Sergi, or Pointe move. The question is do you face the bear during this and move Cirelli while he has some value left because even at his best he is not close to Pointe, not by a long shot. Now that said I was against bridging Pointe because his next contract is going to be above 9 mil he should have been signed at 8mil for as many as the GM could have got. But here we are and you are correct Yanni has been the second best center on the team for much of this season especially after adding at the deadline and while he is one of my favorites hes not a 2C. Then there is Killer a guy who does anything asked of him on any line and on special teams he is a 18 goal guy getting you 40 points per and he and Yanni have been the best along the boards we have for a while. The best thing for this entire situation would be to convince Stamkos to either waive to trade or to got to LTIR but at 30 it does not seem plausable for either.

The most sensable thing to do at this point is to move Cirelli sign Verhaeghe to a cost controlled bridge slide him into the 2C, Sign Sergi at something like 4.5 increasing to 5.5 for 6 years give Cernak 2.5 to 3.5 according to length of contract going to have to backfill the D then Bogo and Shatt are gone Sign Goodrow and Coleman. But to do this wither Johnson or Palat have to go.

I'm all for sensible ideas but this is not one.

 

[HoseEmDown]

To compare Cirelli to Stamkos is absurd. Stammer is a sniper that can finish, most of Cirelli's goals have come from the dirty area in front of the net even strength or on the PP. If he has a guy like Stammer, Kuch on his wing yes he is more productive but tell me who would not be?????? Thing is Pointe went down and he has had better part of three games with Kuch and Palat and has looked poor in the playoffs granted there is an injury or something but to think that if Point were to have a broken leg or something Stamko's wise for a extended period few would agree that Cirelli could step up and be good enough on the 1st line to carry us thru. While the option is always there to move Stammer back to the center this loses productivity from Stammer. I mean it is a good problem to have Stammer on a wing with center depth but Cirelli is a good two way center not great good. He has no ability to play wing and can be expendable with this roster. Spending a good chunk on him is unadvisable due to the new contract that will be needed for Point before we know it and the Cap is not going up for quite some time.

I'm just comparing early Stamkos playoff success to Cirelli's which wasn't that great either. Cirelli hasn't looked that bad between Palat and Kucherov. Kucherov hasn't looked nearly as good in the games with Point out either. Why is it unwise to spend on the player who just finished 4th in the Selke as a 23 year old in his second season?

 

[Byrddog]

I'm all for sensible ideas but this is not one.

If you have a more reasonable approach to address two issues im all ears. Issue 1 A good defensive 2C who has issues with finishing and can not step up and play the all out offense 1C position with our top guns on the wing. And two cost containment at the that center position when the 1C we just bridged will need another raise in two years. In a Cap strapped situation caused by a epidemic which will result in a flat Cap at best for at least 3 years maybe more. I am not saying Cirelli is a terrible player he does some things really well at times. But decisions have to be made long term under the situation the roster is in now laden with NMC's and NMC's and an entire defense below the top two guys on D to sign. Its about extending the window with the least amount of damage possible.

I'm just comparing early Stamkos playoff success to Cirelli's which wasn't that great either. Cirelli hasn't looked that bad between Palat and Kucherov. Kucherov hasn't looked nearly as good in the games with Point out either. Why is it unwise to spend on the player who just finished 4th in the Selke as a 23 year old in his second season?

Like I said above it runs into a cost control situation in a short amount of time. If JBB is not careful 22-23 off season will be a problem even if Palat is let to walk at the time, is there a circumstance other than Point being injured most of the next two years that he does not push for 9 mil a year? Now if you believe Point is not one of the top 10 centers in the league then you could make an argument. But to handicap keeping him could turn out really bad. Look at teams that have issues at 1C for example the Predators who signed three guys in the last few years all of which are 2C's on most of the teams in the league. You can not risk Point under no circumstance now. So either Cirelli goes now or in two years. And no matter what we might think he could be he is not going to be better than Point or Stamko's in two years or ever for that matter. Hes a good two way guy but so is Yanni, Coleman, Goodrow and all three of those have twice the grit Cirelli will ever have. Finishing 4th for the Selke is pretty meaningless those trophies often are less than what happened on the ice. In what world should Shea Weber never have won a Norris? There are a lot of almost players to win trophies other than the Hart most are just subjective. Both Heddy and Vasy both deserve to repeat but Im betting that Carlson and Rask get the Nod this year.

 

[HoseEmDown]

If you have a more reasonable approach to address two issues im all ears. Issue 1 A good defensive 2C who has issues with finishing and can not step up and play the all out offense 1C position with our top guns on the wing. And two cost containment at the that center position when the 1C we just bridged will need another raise in two years. In a Cap strapped situation caused by a epidemic which will result in a flat Cap at best for at least 3 years maybe more. I am not saying Cirelli is a terrible player he does some things really well at times. But decisions have to be made long term under the situation the roster is in now laden with NMC's and NMC's and an entire defense below the top two guys on D to sign. Its about extending the window with the least amount of damage possible.



Like I said above it runs into a cost control situation in a short amount of time. If JBB is not careful 22-23 off season will be a problem even if Palat is let to walk at the time, is there a circumstance other than Point being injured most of the next two years that he does not push for 9 mil a year? Now if you believe Point is not one of the top 10 centers in the league then you could make an argument. But to handicap keeping him could turn out really bad. Look at teams that have issues at 1C for example the Predators who signed three guys in the last few years all of which are 2C's on most of the teams in the league. You can not risk Point under no circumstance now. So either Cirelli goes now or in two years. And no matter what we might think he could be he is not going to be better than Point or Stamko's in two years or ever for that matter. Hes a good two way guy but so is Yanni, Coleman, Goodrow and all three of those have twice the grit Cirelli will ever have. Finishing 4th for the Selke is pretty meaningless those trophies often are less than what happened on the ice. In what world should Shea Weber never have won a Norris? There are a lot of almost players to win trophies other than the Hart most are just subjective. Both Heddy and Vasy both deserve to repeat but Im betting that Carlson and Rask get the Nod this year.

When did I say Cirelli was better than Point or going to be better than Point? Why would Cirelli need to be traded to keep Point? If Point is going to sign for 9M then that's a huge win for us, that's only a 2.25M raise which is very easy to manage. Killorn gone this year, possibly Johnson if not next, next year we may lose Gourde and Palat. By the time Point needs a new deal Killorn, Johnson should be gone, Palat is a UFA we may let go, Gourde has a modified NTC starting that season so could be traded. We have plenty of money for Point and Cirelli, Cirelli isn't getting 5+ now, maybe in a few years if he takes a bridge he will. Even if you think the Selke is a meaningless trophy just look at all the defensive metrics out there and Cirelli is one of the best defensive centers there is. He also has plenty of grit, not sure what you've been watching.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Okay, now he has one good clip in his future negotiations.