Value of: Anthony Beauvillier at the draft for a Pick , a Young 4-6 Dman or a 3C

[UrbanImpact]

I've seen Beau since he was a rookie with NYI. He does not think the game well, IQ is one of his weaknesses, as is stabilizing his confidence. Though his confidence I'm sure has elevated since the trade.

As a Canuck fan we have been blessesed with many years of Jake Virtanen.

The absolute pinnacle definition of a player that does not think the game well.

In the games AB has played for the Canucks, he is nowhere near Virtanen.

In fact one of the attributes that has made him work so well with EP40 and Kuzmenko is the way AB is able to keep up with them in regards to thinking the game..

 

[HuGort]

Sounds like a lazy generalization without actually watching AB play.

To me its clear his skills and stats were stunted in the defensive minded game that the Isles.

If you need more proof then just take a look at what has happened with Horvat having a career year on pace for 90 pts to now playing at a 35 point pace with Islanders.

AB was dominant in the QMJHL prior to joining the Islanders, his offensive ability was though the roof. IMO he has been really caged playing with the Isles.

What you saying doesn't hold water. If that was true Brock Nelson or Barzal would be 100 point scorers. Horvat always was 50 point player. Quite common for a player in contract year to play over his head. He is just reverting back to career norms

 

[UrbanImpact]

What you saying doesn't hold water. If that was true Brock Nelson or Barzal would be 100 point scorers. Horvat always was 50 point player. Quite common for a player in contract year to play over his head. He is just reverting back to career norms

Barzal would 100% have more points in a more offensive minded system surrounded by offensive players. His career high is 85 points and has averaged around 55 points. Those are definitely stunted playing for the Islanders.

AB was one of the most offensively gifted players coming out of his draft class, his numbers have been skewed down playing for the Islanders.

IMO AB is a 50-60 point winger in the NHL.


As for Horvat, " He is just reverting back career norms" according to you...

He is playing at a 34 point pace season in 26 games with the Islandrs.

Is 34 point his career norm?

 

[McJedi]

Granlund got a 2nd round pick from the Pens.

-Granlund is horrible
-Granlund has this season and next season left on his contract ( huge negative)


I'm certain AB can get that return now as well without having to retain. I'm also almost certain nobodu is going to pay a 1st round pick for AB with retention or not so i dont think waiting till the TDL is that advantageous especially considering the following:

1. Canucks need to shed cap in the summer
2. The UFA market is very weak, teams will be trying to get better via trade rather than Free Agency this off-season.

Grunland was traded for that overpay at the deadline. It’s the TDL that creates the stupid buyers that overpay for a Grunland or Chiarot.

Wait until the deadline. Retain at 50% and be pleasantly surprised at the overpay.

With more time and options during the offseason, this trade is harder for Vancouver to win. There won’t be any urgency in July or August from any NHL team to acquire this player.

 

[BCNate]

No rush to deal AB at this point, he has looked very good with EP and Kuzmenko. I'd give him more time to put up more point and build some value. I think we would get a really nice return next deadline if we retain 50% and he is sitting at a 50-60 point pace. I would be happy to re siogn him if his $ stayed in the low 4's. I don't think we need to break the bank to find a wingerr to produce wit those two

 

[AcerComputer]

Jim Benning would do that deal but he would insist the Blues also take a Canucks 2nd round pick back in your suggested deal...

Didn't Benning trade away the 9th OA pick for Garland?

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Didn't Benning trade away the 9th OA pick for Garland?

Picking the scab off of an old wound?

 

[BelovedIsles]

Barzal would 100% have more points in a more offensive minded system surrounded by offensive players. His career high is 85 points and has averaged around 55 points. Those are definitely stunted playing for the Islanders.

AB was one of the most offensively gifted players coming out of his draft class, his numbers have been skewed down playing for the Islanders.

IMO AB is a 50-60 point winger in the NHL.


As for Horvat, " He is just reverting back career norms" according to you...

He is playing at a 34 point pace season in 26 games with the Islandrs.

Is 34 point his career norm?

Agreed about Beau. I posted on the VCR board the day of the trade that I still see 2nd-line potential for him.

There's some context to the other Bo. He's been playing without Barzal pretty much since he's gotten to NYI. He needs creative, skilled playmakers to play with. Instead he's with a 3rd line, N/S grinder who spent a majority of the year in the AHL, and Lee who doesn't have a lick of playmaking, and who can only operate as a net front presence or board work.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Maybe the system on the Islanders limited his potential, and it was the anomaly?

Beauvillier had shit for brains and bricks for hands even when he had opportunities. The system might've lowered his opportunities, but he did nothing with the ones he got.

 

[TryamkinPleaseReturn]

Beauvillier had shit for brains and bricks for hands even when he had opportunities. The system might've lowered his opportunities, but he did nothing with the ones he got.

Truly looks like a win-win trade then, with Beauvillier looking real good for Vancouver - so far, at least - and both teams getting what they need. Other than Raty... guy looks like he has cement skates. Couldn't you guys have thrown in a 2nd instead of him?

 

[MikeyMike01]

Truly looks like a win-win trade then, with Beauvillier looking real good for Vancouver - so far, at least - and both teams getting what they need. Other than Raty... guy looks like he has cement skates. Couldn't you guys have thrown in a 2nd instead of him?

Funny enough, Islanders fans were most upset with giving up Raty in the deal.

 

[TBF1972]

Granlund got a 2nd round pick from the Pens.

-Granlund is horrible
-Granlund has this season and next season left on his contract ( huge negative)


I'm certain AB can get that return now as well without having to retain. I'm also almost certain nobodu is going to pay a 1st round pick for AB with retention or not so i dont think waiting till the TDL is that advantageous especially considering the following:

1. Canucks need to shed cap in the summer
2. The UFA market is very weak, teams will be trying to get better via trade rather than Free Agency this off-season.

one trade doesn't set the market value. just because a gm overpaid for one specific player, it isn't automatically a precedent for any random player you want to move. or do you see any simularities between beauvillier and granlund?

 

[604]

Funny enough, Islanders fans were most upset with giving up Raty in the deal.

We’ll give you Raty back for your 2024 1st, top 20 protected (can slide for 5 years in exchange for a 2nd every year it slides).

 

[Zbynek]

Granlund got a 2nd round pick from the Pens.

-Granlund is horrible
-Granlund has this season and next season left on his contract ( huge negative)


I'm certain AB can get that return now as well without having to retain. I'm also almost certain nobodu is going to pay a 1st round pick for AB with retention or not so i dont think waiting till the TDL is that advantageous especially considering the following:

1. Canucks need to shed cap in the summer
2. The UFA market is very weak, teams will be trying to get better via trade rather than Free Agency this off-season.

Speaking of which. Pens are happy to trade Granlund for AB. 2nd round pick value

 

[Konk]

Sounds like a lazy generalization without actually watching AB play.

To me its clear his skills and stats were stunted in the defensive minded game that the Isles.

If you need more proof then just take a look at what has happened with Horvat having a career year on pace for 90 pts to now playing at a 35 point pace with Islanders.

AB was dominant in the QMJHL prior to joining the Islanders, his offensive ability was though the roof. IMO he has been really caged playing with the Isles.

Or, maybe Isles fans having watched him for 500+ games in his career, have a better handle on his game than Canucks fans, only having watched him for 29 games?

By the way, he's already reverting back to his old self. Since the trade: 13 points in his first 15 games with the Canucks, and only 6 in his last 14. Maybe Canuck fans should wait until you actually see him play over the course of a full season before making these definitive evaluations. He's very streaky and can go very long stretches without contributing anything meaningful.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Speaking of which. Pens are happy to trade Granlund for AB. 2nd round pick value

Nooo... we've had enough Granlunds, thanks.

 

[quietbruinfan]

The Bruins offer Grzlcyk for AB. That is fair, fairly close in salary, and helps both teams. Bruins do need to shed cap, so might throw in Steen.

 

[Petes2424]

He’s been good for the Canucks so far. Leave him be. He’s a solid player and he’s found a good role under Tocchet.

They’d be lucky to get a 2nd for him though. More likely a 3rd would be his value. He’s worth every bit of that value to the Canucks.

It’s just where the game is at with the cap. Secondary and role playing wingers are who’s taking the biggest hit during this cap crunch. No matter what you think of him, he’s in one of those two categories.

 

[seafoam]

Ryan Strome 2.0

 

[KevinRedkey]

Brannstrom and M.Joseph?

 

[sting101]

He’s been good for the Canucks so far. Leave him be. He’s a solid player and he’s found a good role under Tocchet.

They’d be lucky to get a 2nd for him though. More likely a 3rd would be his value. He’s worth every bit of that value to the Canucks.

It’s just where the game is at with the cap. Secondary and role playing wingers are who’s taking the biggest hit during this cap crunch. No matter what you think of him, he’s in one of those two categories.

Reasonable take.

Beauvillier had shit for brains and bricks for hands even when he had opportunities. The system might've lowered his opportunities, but he did nothing with the ones he got.

I'm not sure what kind of discourse your looking for with comments like this? Obviously he's a good NHLer

Beauvillier i agree is not a high iQ player but he's quick and has a decent skill level. He's thrived as a disruptor and can get in on the forecheck and create turnovers and is a nice addition to a team that has a bunch of higher IQ high skill players that need what AB brings to complement their games.

As far as hockey IQ it's pretty commonplace that as players mature they learn how to play smarter and a new team and environment cant do wonders to foster that. So far so good in Van

He's nothing special though in the grand scheme .5 ppg players don't hold a ton of external value outside of the deadlines. His value is that he adds speed and depth to the forward corps and can do some heavy lifting. Canucks need a couple more guys actually playing at his level or being healthy to have good depth so he's valuable to us just not more than a good 3C or top4 D and we can use the cap space for that.

As far as Beuvillier for Dvorak i would do that. Him and Garland had some chemistry formerly and could be 2/3rds of a good 3rd line. Beauvillier would probably thrive close to home or could be flipped for a better return than Dvorak by next off season though so i could see some rationale on both sides

 

[HuGort]

Barzal would 100% have more points in a more offensive minded system surrounded by offensive players. His career high is 85 points and has averaged around 55 points. Those are definitely stunted playing for the Islanders.

AB was one of the most offensively gifted players coming out of his draft class, his numbers have been skewed down playing for the Islanders.

IMO AB is a 50-60 point winger in the NHL.


As for Horvat, " He is just reverting back career norms" according to you...

He is playing at a 34 point pace season in 26 games with the Islandrs.

Is 34 point his career norm?

Horvat on pace 44 points with Isles, 70 for this season. Which is career year for him. Contract year though, so it was expected.

Habs give you a 4th for Beauvillier? He's career 17 goal average. He will take spot away from a RHP who gives us good defense and 15 goals. But 3.4 million a year cheaper.

 

[leeroggy]

Sounds like a lazy generalization without actually watching AB play.

To me its clear his skills and stats were stunted in the defensive minded game that the Isles.

If you need more proof then just take a look at what has happened with Horvat having a career year on pace for 90 pts to now playing at a 35 point pace with Islanders.

AB was dominant in the QMJHL prior to joining the Islanders, his offensive ability was though the roof. IMO he has been really caged playing with the Isles.

We Isles fans are chuckling at that

He led the league with hitting the goalie crest on shooting. The last season and a half with the Isles his shooting % was 8%, and he had a LOT of good looks.

His shooting stunk with us, not his lack of opportunities

 

[biturbo19]

What do the Canucks need another 4-6 Defenceman for anyway? They've already got a bunch of those. They need a legit Top-3 defensive RHD. Plenty of bottom-of-roster clutter in the mix already.

 

[saintunspecified]

Truly looks like a win-win trade then, with Beauvillier looking real good for Vancouver - so far, at least - and both teams getting what they need. Other than Raty... guy looks like he has cement skates. Couldn't you guys have thrown in a 2nd instead of him?

I hope for his sake he can improve it enough, because he seems like a great kid. I think he could get there.

As for Beau - his best seasons were 19-20, and 20-21 where he scored at a 45-50 point per 82 pace. I agree that those numbers are depressed by NYI's playstyle. Reasonably he was playing at his potential- , a 25g-35a/60pt guy during those years. The problem is that his game regressed, and not merely his offense. I'm sure it was related to confidence/frustration, and I can see him regain his previous form. 20-21 Beau would be worth his contract, and if he's close to regaining that form with the Canucks, they should probably keep him.