Speculation: Another year of this Bluc **** (The 2024-25 season thread)

[kingsholygrail]

+/- is such a unique stat, and frankly any use of the stat without context has me question the knowledge or motives of the person behind it.

Like when it was declared Brandt Clarke had a bad game defensively anytime he had a minus game in juniors.

Even if you want to forgive the disparity of plus/minus within a team, Fiala's still been the highest paid player and he's producing at nearly half the pace of the top scorers, despite favorable deployments.

To be fair, Thursday was one of Fiala's best games in a while, as his play with the puck was more disciplined.

Not to get into the weeds of every questionable player brought up:
- Bedard leads his team in scoring. And his team's highest +/- is plus-0
- Sebastian Aho is 7 points behind team lead in scoring. But he's also used as a defensive forward; while PK can't contribute to minus, he's still multidimensional.
- Dylan Larkin. 8 points behind team lead. His minus-6 is closer to the middle, and team lead is plus-8. Also used on the PK/shutdown
- Tkachuck. 11 points behind team lead in scoring. If he was on the Kings, his 40 points would be 1 behind Kempe and Kopitar. He also draws about as many penalties as he takes.
- Panarin leads his team in scoring. And his minus-6 isn't bad on the team considering the best of players still on the team is plus-6.

Etc.

WIth Fiala, the composition of his metrics aren't favorable. The argument can be made this year especially that the Kings are winning in spite of him more than because of him. At least in previous seasons in LA, he either led the team in scoring or was at least in a close contest.


Which is why the stat is very contextual. It also shouldn't be used in single game sample sizes.

Players get minuses when they come out of the box, sure. Players also get it coming off the bench. But it usually doesn't happen 10 or 20 more times over the season compared to your even strength production.

Fiala has 12 even strength points and is a minus-9. He was on the ice for a shorthanded goal against. Which means at even strength, he has literally been on the ice for 20 goals against. The Kings have had a total of 68 even strength goals against (60 5-on5, 4 4-on4, and 4 3-on-3).

So what does it say when one player is on the ice for nearly 1/3 (20 out of 68) even strength goals against? Let's also add in, again, he gets among the highest of offensive zone faceoffs compared to any other forward on the team?

So what, you bench Fiala?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Again I don’t hate the guy. I’m just literally astounded at how bad his results are. It’s like he’s taken every criticism of his game and poured Red Bull down its throat. He’s not scoring, he’s not at all defending, and he’s siphoning all the high-leverage offensive opportunities to be a league-worst neg negative.

It sucks because the heart is there, too. If it were PLD last season I’d say bench him for a week just to get his head right. BU ti’m not sure that’s the right message either.

He did have a kid and we’ve seen that affect people but never this drastically , I’d like to see him snap out of it and i’ts clear the Kings’ strategy with him is ‘hope’…hope he turns it around.

I mean even if this team never figures out its PP if they get even AVERAGE play from Doughty, Fiala, and Moore down the stretch they are scary. It’s just unfortunate for us that the best in our division are two true contenders and we aren’t likely to dodge both of them.

So what, you bench Fiala?

I would certainly reduce his minutes. 1PP unit. Give me more quality less quantity. Making him smoke the whole pack isn’t helping.

 

[Trash Panda]

So what, you bench Fiala?

Trading him for a right handed shot who doesn’t bleed chances against would be ideal, but reducing his minutes is more realistic.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Trading him for a right handed shot who doesn’t bleed chances against would be ideal, but reducing his minutes is more realistic.

Again, for the umpteenth time, don't let his NMC get in the way. Once you can do that, I'm sure he'll accept a trade to Buffalo.

 

[King'sPawn]

So what, you bench Fiala?

At the very least limit his minutes after a bad game. He produces less, which sucks, but give the powerplay and other regulars time to see how things work without him as a regular.

 

[Sol]

I think coming down on Fiala is somewhat justified however he’s been extremely productive as a King and I think that’s being overlooked just because people don’t like him.


The Kings are playing some awful offensive hockey and I am more inclined to blame the coaching staff for the god awful offense than the individual players. I think Kempe here is the anomaly for how well he’s playing so I will remove him from my theory. Everyone else for the most part isn’t producing well.

Kings are playing “great” defense because they aren’t playing offense. When people talk about how great our defense is, it’s kinda cringe because it ignores the fact that our offensive system is trash.

I consider The Jets a very impressive team because they have a really good offense and defense so they aren’t sacrificing one for the other. Kings are obviously sacrificing offense heavily for defense. Our defense is impressive with context.

 

[Maynard]

So what, you bench Fiala?

They did that. It didn’t work.

 

[Trash Panda]

Again, for the umpteenth time, don't let his NMC get in the way. Once you can do that, I'm sure he'll accept a trade to Buffalo.

“But reducing his minutes is more realistic” is how that entire statement was finished.

I’m painfully aware of that insane NMC that Blake handed out.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Trading him for a right handed shot who doesn’t bleed chances against would be ideal, but reducing his minutes is more realistic.

So which team is going to give us a competent right handed shot in exchange for Fiala if he's as bad as we're saying?

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

So which team is going to give us a competent right handed shot in exchange for Fiala if he's as bad as we're saying?

I've got 31 teams to choose from on my Xbox.

 

[funky]

It would be interesting to see Fiala's brainwaves as compared to say someone like Kopi while playing...His mind is dominated by instinct pushing thought and structure far into the background. What kind of linemates would work with that? You would have to find guys that adapt to his creativity vs play w structure. But then who is going to be defensively responsible on his line? Thats why I think there has never been a line combo containing Fiala that seems like it should stick. Fiala might fit well on a less structured team like the Avs.

Honestly, a smart fast guy liked Turcotte with great skills that could react to Fiala. I think would be the best. I think Laf on the other side of the wing would be a great compliment. All three are high engine guys that skate good and have good quick hands and good quick reaction time. You have to remember even back in Minnesota he wasn’t playing with the stars on the team but some of the younger guys.

The Kings are so structured, Kopitar is born into that world and thrives under structure. He’s like the plow horse on the farm that you know is gonna get that field plowed each and every time in the proper way. Almost predictable. He will work well with other horses, but it’ll be at his speed.He is high skilled, but in a different way, or at least employs it in a different way.

Fiala is more of a Race Horse. When the hard work has to be done, he’s not the animal you put out there. He’s a weapon. All he sees is the finish line and he’s gonna blast down on the track to get there. He doesn’t necessarily need a partner to get there, he’s just gonna go for it. But every good race horse also needs a jockey that he can work with, keep the blinders on him, and help guide him to the end goal. But he needs a jockey that has the instincts to react to what the horse is doing, moving, and not one that just expects to sit and go in a circle.

I just don’t see player’s like Danault who has also been missing an action this year, being the type of player that gets the best out of Fiala. I actually like Fiala and do believe he could be a weapon, but I just don’t know if he’s a fit for the way this team plays and for the way he’s being deployed with the line mates he has been deployed with. We traded a perfect winger for Fiala in Vilardi. Those two with Byfield or Turcotte would’ve been nuts.

 

[Trash Panda]

So which team is going to give us a competent right handed shot in exchange for Fiala if he's as bad as we're saying?

I’d trade him for a right handed box of pucks, personally, but the NMC is going to make that all but impossible.

It’s why I said reducing his minutes is more realistic. Force feeding him PP time and O zone starts ain’t working.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I’d trade him for a right handed box of pucks, personally, but the NMC is going to make that all but impossible.

It’s why I said reducing his minutes is more realistic. Force feeding him PP time and O zone starts ain’t working.

Who picks up his minutes?

 

[FSL KINGS]

It would be interesting to see Fiala's brainwaves as compared to say someone like Kopi while playing...His mind is dominated by instinct pushing thought and structure far into the background. What kind of linemates would work with that? You would have to find guys that adapt to his creativity vs play w structure. But then who is going to be defensively responsible on his line? Thats why I think there has never been a line combo containing Fiala that seems like it should stick. Fiala might fit well on a less structured team like the Avs.

Fiala has been tried with Kopi, Danault & Lizotte other than a random shift here or there. Kopi has well documented issues meshing with skilled players. Danault doesn't see the game that way. Lizotte was Fiala's best opportunity.

Try something different? Lewis maybe.

 

[Trash Panda]

Who picks up his minutes?

…the rest of the wingers on the roster.

Hell, if you just quit spoon feeding him PP time and O Zone starts, you’re more than likely to see the solution sort itself out pretty quickly.

Give the chances to wingers that earn it on a nightly basis. If that winger is Kevin, then great, but it can’t be treated as his birthright just because he cost a ton to acquire & has a ridiculous contract. No need to continue making a mistake because of the sunken cost fallacy.

 

[bland]

So which team is going to give us a competent right handed shot in exchange for Fiala if he's as bad as we're saying?

He is clearly a poor fit for what the Kings are trying to accomplish. Any foresight whatsoever would have told them that before they acquired him. He is an offense-only winger that cannot mesh with an offensive center. Strange combination, that Fiala.

He isn't a bad player in general terms, though he has been the worst player on a very good team that would most definitely be better off without him on the ice or on the cap. The best thing for everybody would be to move him on.

There are plenty of teams that play a more up tempo, offensive based system that could maximize his ability while absorbing his weaknesses.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Honestly, a smart fast guy liked Turcotte with great skills that could react to Fiala. I think would be the best. I think Laf on the other side of the wing would be a great compliment. All three are high engine guys that skate good and have good quick hands and good quick reaction time. You have to remember even back in Minnesota he wasn’t playing with the stars on the team but some of the younger guys.

The Kings are so structured, Kopitar is born into that world and thrives under structure. He’s like the plow horse on the farm that you know is gonna get that field plowed each and every time in the proper way. Almost predictable. He will work well with other horses, but it’ll be at his speed.He is high skilled, but in a different way, or at least employs it in a different way.

Fiala is more of a Race Horse. When the hard work has to be done, he’s not the animal you put out there. He’s a weapon. All he sees is the finish line and he’s gonna blast down on the track to get there. He doesn’t necessarily need a partner to get there, he’s just gonna go for it. But every good race horse also needs a jockey that he can work with, keep the blinders on him, and help guide him to the end goal. But he needs a jockey that has the instincts to react to what the horse is doing, moving, and not one that just expects to sit and go in a circle.

I just don’t see player’s like Danault who has also been missing an action this year, being the type of player that gets the best out of Fiala. I actually like Fiala and do believe he could be a weapon, but I just don’t know if he’s a fit for the way this team plays and for the way he’s being deployed with the line mates he has been deployed with. We traded a perfect winger for Fiala in Vilardi. Those two with Byfield or Turcotte would’ve been nuts.

Good analogies... i agree... Maybe Turcotte. I dont think they've played together except on PP2.

 

[Bandit]

The chaos makes the games fun!

This is what I’d tell myself when dating redheads in order to justify the bruises and emotional trauma.

 

[Bandit]

Honestly, a smart fast guy liked Turcotte with great skills that could react to Fiala. I think would be the best. I think Laf on the other side of the wing would be a great compliment. All three are high engine guys that skate good and have good quick hands and good quick reaction time. You have to remember even back in Minnesota he wasn’t playing with the stars on the team but some of the younger guys.

The Kings are so structured, Kopitar is born into that world and thrives under structure. He’s like the plow horse on the farm that you know is gonna get that field plowed each and every time in the proper way. Almost predictable. He will work well with other horses, but it’ll be at his speed.He is high skilled, but in a different way, or at least employs it in a different way.

Fiala is more of a Race Horse. When the hard work has to be done, he’s not the animal you put out there. He’s a weapon. All he sees is the finish line and he’s gonna blast down on the track to get there. He doesn’t necessarily need a partner to get there, he’s just gonna go for it. But every good race horse also needs a jockey that he can work with, keep the blinders on him, and help guide him to the end goal. But he needs a jockey that has the instincts to react to what the horse is doing, moving, and not one that just expects to sit and go in a circle.

I just don’t see player’s like Danault who has also been missing an action this year, being the type of player that gets the best out of Fiala. I actually like Fiala and do believe he could be a weapon, but I just don’t know if he’s a fit for the way this team plays and for the way he’s being deployed with the line mates he has been deployed with. We traded a perfect winger for Fiala in Vilardi. Those two with Byfield or Turcotte would’ve been nuts.

I hate the idea of ruining someone like Turcotte or Lafferiere just to cover for Fiala’s lame ass but this is exactly the kind of 1D chess I’ve come to expect from Bluc.

 

[Omni Owl]

I hate the idea of ruining someone like Turcotte or Lafferiere just to cover for Fiala’s lame ass but this is exactly the kind of 1D chess I’ve come to expect from Bluc.

So basically checkers.

 

[Bandit]

So basically checkers.

More like tic-tac-toe. And losing.

 

[Statto]

+/- is such a unique stat, and frankly any use of the stat without context has me question the knowledge or motives of the person behind it

Thank you.

It’s a huge irritation I have with the stat because it needs a lot of context and only has value over time. It is a good comparison tool but needs appropriate context. So compare with players in similar roles on roughly equal teams.

So comparing an offensive d man on a winning team to a defensive D on a rebuilding team is f’ing pointless. I was asked to publish the +/- I collated in the past but refused as I knew it would be misused/misunderstood.

I think it’s a great stat btw, it just has to be used properly - which requires spreadsheets

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think coming down on Fiala is somewhat justified however he’s been extremely productive as a King and I think that’s being overlooked just because people don’t like him.


The Kings are playing some awful offensive hockey and I am more inclined to blame the coaching staff for the god awful offense than the individual players. I think Kempe here is the anomaly for how well he’s playing so I will remove him from my theory. Everyone else for the most part isn’t producing well.

Kings are playing “great” defense because they aren’t playing offense. When people talk about how great our defense is, it’s kinda cringe because it ignores the fact that our offensive system is trash.

I consider The Jets a very impressive team because they have a really good offense and defense so they aren’t sacrificing one for the other. Kings are obviously sacrificing offense heavily for defense. Our defense is impressive with context.

Even if I grant you that, the problem is Fiala is doing neither offense NOR defense, so

…the rest of the wingers on the roster.

Hell, if you just quit spoon feeding him PP time and O Zone starts, you’re more than likely to see the solution sort itself out pretty quickly.

Give the chances to wingers that earn it on a nightly basis. If that winger is Kevin, then great, but it can’t be treated as his birthright just because he cost a ton to acquire & has a ridiculous contract. No need to continue making a mistake because of the sunken cost fallacy.

Exactly. Guarantee you if you play other scorers in those spots, including Byfield, Turcotte, Laferriere, that hole will be patched in short order. They'll bare minimum replace his horseshit 5v5 play/production, they MAY patch the power play up, but they'll at least stop bleeding god damn goals every time they touch the ice.

They almost have to treat Fiala like they should be treating Burroughs at this point, he's f***ing radioactive.

 

[unicornpig]

people whining about fiala not being able to fit the kings system. but also upset that kaliyev is gone haha.