Speculation: Another year of this Bluc **** (The 2024-25 season thread)

[Surf Nutz]

Is Iafallo a top 6 guy to you?

He went their and did that when the pickings were slim in the 32 team NHL.

So yes his ceiling happen to peak as a top line player.

Turcotte is also much more skilled.

See the last GW goal against a very good T bay team.

Quit trying to be an enforcer, where you have zero jurisdiction.

I like the adage of "if you get 2-3 NHL players in a draft, you had a good draft. I know there are variables and nuances, but ultimately, these still come across as "good drafts" to me. Even first overall picks bust, so nothing is guaranteed.

Turcotte has health issues but he's working in the top-6. Lee works as a bottom-six grinder. Spence is solid as a bottom-4 defenseman. No rebuild should be done on one or two drafts alone, anyway.

Losing Kaliyev sucks. I liked him. But we know he wasn't going to get more opportunity here, and the Kings couldn't get anything for him at the draft. The writing was on the wall he wouldn't be staying in LA for long. It was all but guaranteed to be in Ontario or another NHL team.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I like the adage of "if you get 2-3 NHL players in a draft, you had a good draft. I know there are variables and nuances, but ultimately, these still come across as "good drafts" to me. Even first overall picks bust, so nothing is guaranteed.

Turcotte has health issues but he's working in the top-6. Lee works as a bottom-six grinder. Spence is solid as a bottom-4 defenseman. No rebuild should be done on one or two drafts alone, anyway.

Losing Kaliyev sucks. I liked him. But we know he wasn't going to get more opportunity here, and the Kings couldn't get anything for him at the draft. The writing was on the wall he wouldn't be staying in LA for long. It was all but guaranteed to be in Ontario or another NHL team.

Its the cumulative effect of not getting anything for the high picks along with getting nothing for Roy or RV. Agree that overall 2019 turned out OK - just couldve been fantastic - I remember after that draft day thinking how good things were looking in the pipe.

Didnt he take some shifts after he came back to the bench? That is so hockey culture to come back out there... I hope they did some solid diagnostics.. soft tissue injuries only show up on MRIs.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Its the cumulative effect of not getting anything for the high picks along with getting nothing for Roy or RV. Agree that overall 2019 turned out OK - just couldve been fantastic - I remember after that draft day thinking how good things were looking in the pipe.


Didnt he take some shifts after he came back to the bench? That is so hockey culture to come back out there... I hope they did some solid diagnostics.. soft tissue injuries only show up on MRIs.

Yes Kaliyev turned out to be a poor pick.

In regards to getting nothing for significant roster players while you are going to the playoffs, why create a hole you need to fill with an outside player who

doesn't know and have chemistry with the team?

If you manage to breakthrough and finally advance over a Pacific or west nemesis it changes the revenue and situation and you can re evaluate the player

not traded and resign them or come to understand how and off season farewell and addition of a different player would be better.

But keep going with your hot streak of comments blazing into yet another black hole.

 

[BigKing]

Kaliyev is better than Fagemo and always has been.

Even with deficiencies in defense and, at times, compete level, the kid is an NHL player. What he doesn't appear to be, and probably won't be, is a cool dude. He doesn't fit in and just looks like a socially awkward guy.

@bland touched on it already and I agree that we probably won't ever get the full story, but he didn't interview well and those concerns were why he dropped to the 2nd round: not his skating. His skating and size were good enough for the 1st round when you combine that with his shot and offensive IQ. Tore up the OHL, great at the WJC, scores in his 1st NHL game and then looked the part. 14 goals at 20 and then 13 at 21 in only 56 games.

I'm one of his biggest fans. Felt--and still do--that the talent is NHL level. Can he survive in an NHL locker room? I think that is the real question.

As for Bowlby, the guy has traded one prospect before knowing with near-certainty what he had and that was Faber...Grans fits there too, I suppose, but Blake probably wouldn't want that deal brought up as an example of anything good on his part. Every other player from the "best prospect pool in the NHL" is held on to until they are worthless.

They all aren't going to be stars or even NHL players so holding on to practically every single one of them is a terrible strategy. These prospects are stocks and Blake never knows when to sell. It is an ongoing problem and here we are again.

 

[BigKing]

Its the cumulative effect of not getting anything for the high picks along with getting nothing for Roy or RV. Agree that overall 2019 turned out OK - just couldve been fantastic - I remember after that draft day thinking how good things were looking in the pipe.


Didnt he take some shifts after he came back to the bench? That is so hockey culture to come back out there... I hope they did some solid diagnostics.. soft tissue injuries only show up on MRIs.

We can subscribe to the "three players out of a draft means it is a good one" theory, but that ignores the context of how many picks were used, how high the picks were, and what kind of players the three happen to be.

Andre Lee is a nice story, but it also is too early to firmly call him an NHL player. Turcotte is just now sticking and we all are hoping he doesn't hit his head. Where he was drafted is important when we say that draft turned out okay.

IMO, that draft is not okay. Endured a brutal season to basically miss on three high picks, barring how Turcotte keeps on progressing.

 

[AbsentMojo]

We can subscribe to the "three players out of a draft means it is a good one" theory, but that ignores the context of how many picks were used, how high the picks were, and what kind of players the three happen to be.

Andre Lee is a nice story, but it also is too early to firmly call him an NHL player. Turcotte is just now sticking and we all are hoping he doesn't hit his head. Where he was drafted is important when we say that draft turned out okay.

IMO, that draft is not okay. Endured a brutal season to basically miss on three high picks, barring how Turcotte keeps on progressing.

Good points re the context.. 100% agree.

 

[King'sPawn]

Its the cumulative effect of not getting anything for the high picks along with getting nothing for Roy or RV. Agree that overall 2019 turned out OK - just couldve been fantastic - I remember after that draft day thinking how good things were looking in the pipe.

I get it. I'm a prospects guy and love to watch these young kids grow up to fulfill their dreams. Drafts can ALWAYS be better, and we can always hope for more.

But I just think, big picture, the Kings had a good draft. And ultimately, I wouldn't expect losing Bjornfot and Kaliyev to waivers will adjust the dial (either affecting contender status or their rebuild) in either direction. A couple picks would be nice, but if the Kings continue to have good drafts, I am okay with it.

One of the biggest reasons I push for more opportunity for prospects earlier is so there can be an organizational assessment of who they have and what they are capable of. Turcotte and Laferriere the past two seasons have taken spots where Fagemo and Kaliyev were going to be.

I just hoped to see Kaliyev succeed. And I hope he finds success in future endeavors.

 

[Lt Dan]

Didnt he take some shifts after he came back to the bench? That is so hockey culture to come back out there... I hope they did some solid diagnostics.. soft tissue injuries only show up on MRIs.

Yes

Hopefully this is just a maintenance day

 

[Herby]

2019 draft still has to be graded pretty low, Spence was a good pick in the mid-rounds, which helps with the misses higher up. But you had 5, 22 and 33 picks and you end up with what (as of now, almost 6 years later) are two players who have already been lost to waivers, and a 10 goal 35-40 point winger Swiss-Army knife type from a top 5 pick.

Nobody on 2019 draft night would have been happy if a time-traveler from 2025 told them that would be the results. The Kings needed to find the next Kopitar and Carter from those high pick drafts, and it's tough to say they came even close.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I just hoped to see Kaliyev succeed. And I hope he finds success in future endeavors.

Same. NYR dont really have a good rep for development but he gets a fresh start with an org that is a bit in transition so he has chance to earn a spot. Like you Im a prospects guy - to me that's a lot of the fun to watch the draft, learn about your picks and watch them develop.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Same. NYR dont really have a good rep for development but he gets a fresh start with an org that is a bit in transition

Transition to what…the basement?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Its simple. It has little to do with his on-ice ability.

Kaliyev quit on the Kings. He quit on his teammates last year. The coach and GM told us. He did nothing to help the team, and that doesn't just mean scoring goals.

There is more to hockey than numbers, and there has been a lot of speculation about Kaliyev since his draft year. He doesn't earn the benefit of doubts. We will likely never know why he struggles to adapt, but we know that he does. That is apparently more than enough to decide it's no longer worth waiting.

But again to me it’s less about Kaliyev and more about why does this keep happening and why does it keep happening while they tolerate Fiala

Kaliyev is just a tree in the burned down forest of kings assets from 2017-2025. I mean pick a single player and you can make enough excuses to feel better about it. But when you look at the outgoing vs incoming vs what’s left vs where we are you’d expect at least a conference finalist on their way out.

Kaliyev is one of the last ones even left. I guess next up is Thomas and green tree and a goalie prospect and the next two firsts

 

[AbsentMojo]

Transition to what…the basement?

The jungle. NYR telling AK - we got fun and games, we got everything you want, we know the names, we are the people that can find whatever you may need, you can taste the bright lights but you wont get them for free

 

[Surf Nutz]

I get it. I'm a prospects guy and love to watch these young kids grow up to fulfill their dreams. Drafts can ALWAYS be better, and we can always hope for more.

But I just think, big picture, the Kings had a good draft. And ultimately, I wouldn't expect losing Bjornfot and Kaliyev to waivers will adjust the dial (either affecting contender status or their rebuild) in either direction. A couple picks would be nice, but if the Kings continue to have good drafts, I am okay with it.

One of the biggest reasons I push for more opportunity for prospects earlier is so there can be an organizational assessment of who they have and what they are capable of. Turcotte and Laferriere the past two seasons have taken spots where Fagemo and Kaliyev were going to be.

I just hoped to see Kaliyev succeed. And I hope he finds success in future endeavors.

The problem with early assessment is it can take place before the player has a breakthrough.

Continual assessment with a season review is where to go , along with potential breakthrough scenarios looking forward.

Agree with draft thoughts.

 

[Schrute farms]

The reason to lose him on waivers is you have made the determination a team taking him is doing you a favor.

Calling Hiller who had input on dumping Kaliyev for sure, a scrub is just plain desperation.

The Kings suck and when they don't, they are going to lose to Edmo in the playoffs anyway.

Reverse Stolkholm Syndrome in full effect!


I would group JAD, Hughes in one group as specified.

All the rest were seen as potential impact players and they are right there!

This part is to some other posters:

Ya I fricken said RIGHT THERE!

THEY ARE RIGHT THERE

RIGHT THERE!

RIGHT THERE!

RIGHT THERE!

EAT IT UP!

I get it now -- you are 12
(it all makes sense now -- maybe a certain poster's son who can't seem to stay out of HF jail lol)

 

[Herby]

Its simple. It has little to do with his on-ice ability.

Kaliyev quit on the Kings. He quit on his teammates last year. The coach and GM told us. He did nothing to help the team, and that doesn't just mean scoring goals.

There is more to hockey than numbers, and there has been a lot of speculation about Kaliyev since his draft year. He doesn't earn the benefit of doubts. We will likely never know why he struggles to adapt, but we know that he does. That is apparently more than enough to decide it's no longer worth waiting.

I think this a fair assessment on Kaliyev, I love to blame the Kings management for the horrible decisions they have made with player development, but I think this one is more on Kaliyev, there comes a point where the organization has to take off the training wheels, and it's on the player to ride or fall. They did that with Turcotte, and even though he isn't what was expected on draft night, he has still been able to carve out a role on the team, Kaliyev was just never able to properly adjust to not being a premier goal-scorer like he had been his whole life as a competitive hockey player. Alot of the negative things in his pre-draft scouting report ended up being true, a common theme with many Kings picks. Bjornfot ceiling, Turcotte skill-level, Byfield offensive zone game-sense, JAD skill-level, Kupari skill-level, Kaliyev mental game (I know it went deeper with the rumors about age and autism)

 

[Surf Nutz]

But again to me it’s less about Kaliyev and more about why does this keep happening and why does it keep happening while they tolerate Fiala

Kaliyev is just a tree in the burned down forest of kings assets from 2017-2025. I mean pick a single player and you can make enough excuses to feel better about it. But when you look at the outgoing vs incoming vs what’s left vs where we are you’d expect at least a conference finalist on their way out.

Kaliyev is one of the last ones even left. I guess next up is Thomas and green tree and a goalie prospect and the next two firsts

Tolerate Fiala?

You gonna ship all over a guy with NMC?

You support players during their down times and eventually they come through when you need it.

Burned down tree in a Forrest lol?

Drafting, and developing humans and getting to the conference finals is a guarantee snap.

it's all AI robots.

Chicken little

I get it now -- you are 12
(it all makes sense now -- maybe a certain poster's son who can't seem to stay out of HF jail lol)

Pretty creepy sounds like you are internet juvenile age estimator.

Not sure how or why you develop that skill.

 

[Statto]

I think this a fair assessment on Kaliyev, I love to blame the Kings management for the horrible decisions they have made with player development, but I think this one is more on Kaliyev, there comes a point where the organization has to take off the training wheels, and it's on the player to ride or fall. They did that with Turcotte, and even though he isn't what was expected on draft night, he has still been able to carve out a role on the team, Kaliyev was just never able to properly adjust to not being a premier goal-scorer like he had been his whole life as a competitive hockey player. Alot of the negative things in his pre-draft scouting report ended up being true, a common theme with many Kings picks. Bjornfot ceiling, Turcotte skill-level, Byfield offensive zone game-sense, JAD skill-level, Kupari skill-level, Kaliyev mental game (I know it went deeper with the rumors about age and autism)

Just talking hypothetically as we have no idea but in of itself autism isn’t necessarily a barrier. There might need to be some understanding of the condition by an NHL team but it is certainly isn’t a major problem IMO. The Kings in general seem like they would be open to managing someone with the condition but that’s just a general perception based on the attitude to pastoral care.

ASD would probably likely produce a very high game IQ (special interest) plus a desire to perfect their game. There may be a tendency to be too hard on themselves but equally a desire to fit in, please. All generalisations obviously. Awkward with media would be likely, but much less so with familiar people.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head from personal experience. Sorry for going off at a tangent.

 

[Herby]

The problem with early assessment is it can take place before the player has a breakthrough.

Continual assessment with a season review is where to go , along with potential breakthrough scenarios looking forward.

Agree with draft thoughts.

What is the definition of an early assessment?

Players from Kaliyev's draft are waiver eligible, which means in the eyes of the NHLPA and NHL who negotiated CBA they are seen as finished products. I know you and others love to reference outlier players who take huge steps at 24 and 25, but the reality of the situation is that normally what you see is what you get with players by this age.

Kaliyev and players from the 2019 and 2018 drafts are not kids, they are NHL players in the their prime years (people still refer to 25 year old Akil Thomas as a kid)

 

[AbsentMojo]

I get it now -- you are 12
(it all makes sense now -- maybe a certain poster's son who can't seem to stay out of HF jail lol)

He's this boards Kaliyev

 

[Sol]

I think this a fair assessment on Kaliyev, I love to blame the Kings management for the horrible decisions they have made with player development, but I think this one is more on Kaliyev, there comes a point where the organization has to take off the training wheels, and it's on the player to ride or fall. They did that with Turcotte, and even though he isn't what was expected on draft night, he has still been able to carve out a role on the team, Kaliyev was just never able to properly adjust to not being a premier goal-scorer like he had been his whole life as a competitive hockey player. Alot of the negative things in his pre-draft scouting report ended up being true, a common theme with many Kings picks. Bjornfot ceiling, Turcotte skill-level, Byfield offensive zone game-sense, JAD skill-level, Kupari skill-level, Kaliyev mental game (I know it went deeper with the rumors about age and autism)

These 2 statements are connected.

 

[chris kontos]

Social anxiety disorder/stagefright
Im hopeful for perhaps a more proactive you can play and mental health initiative.
Here's to you kings- dont evrr change

 

[Surf Nutz]

What is the definition of an early assessment?

Players from Kaliyev's draft are waiver eligible, which means in the eyes of the NHLPA and NHL who negotiated CBA they are seen as finished products. I know you and others love to reference outlier players who take huge steps at 24 and 25, but the reality of the situation is that normally what you see is what you get with players by this age.

Kaliyev and players from the 2019 and 2018 drafts are not kids, they are NHL players in the their prime years (people still refer to 25 year old Akil Thomas as a kid)

The object is to buy low and hold.

So any assessment done without an eye on future breakouts possibilities are hazardous.

The Kings held until the roster situation based on what other players are doing, substantiated by team performance, made them fold.

I know you are a hard math/science guy but I am based in the fluidity of the realm of human psychology, so I don't have definitions for you.

Every case is different and some make for a fascinating study.

 

[YP44]

I don't think Todd M really put Kaliyev in a spot to develop. From the outside neither did Hiller, but not sure if Kaliyev was as much to blame there. Sucks it could not work out as he has a lot of what LA lacks.

When Kakko was about to be traded I wondered if LA could package Kaliyev with something for him. Guess Rangers would have had some interest in the player.

 

[Surf Nutz]

I think this a fair assessment on Kaliyev, I love to blame the Kings management for the horrible decisions they have made with player development, but I think this one is more on Kaliyev, there comes a point where the organization has to take off the training wheels, and it's on the player to ride or fall. They did that with Turcotte, and even though he isn't what was expected on draft night, he has still been able to carve out a role on the team, Kaliyev was just never able to properly adjust to not being a premier goal-scorer like he had been his whole life as a competitive hockey player. Alot of the negative things in his pre-draft scouting report ended up being true, a common theme with many Kings picks. Bjornfot ceiling, Turcotte skill-level, Byfield offensive zone game-sense, JAD skill-level, Kupari skill-level, Kaliyev mental game (I know it went deeper with the rumors about age and autism)

Again Turcotte is on L1 with legends as of right now.

He just made a brilliant no look behind the back pass on the GWG in a tightly contested game against a potential east champ.

Displaying a lot of skill at the crucial point of the game.

In that moment and recently he is displaying a propensity to live up to the hype, as the jury deliberates.