Speculation: Another year of this Bluc **** (The 2024-25 season thread)

[King'sPawn]

i seem to remember another in-a-vacuum low compete, low success player who got paid what, $7M more, got 1-on-1 coaching from rob blake and was placed everywhere in the lineup to accomodate him

I agree. That's the failure of the franchise.

I really argue here that it’s extremely hard to deliver when you’re put in a position to fail. Kaliyev was playing more of a grinder role than a sniper role when he was getting ice time. Look at Laferriere right now, he’s playing like a sniper and the Kings are wanting that from him. When was the last time that Kaliyev was playing like a sniper for a prolonged period of time? I know certain people like to dunk on Kaliyev for not succeeding as a sniper in a grinder position but we have to be honest about how this affects a players performance.

I don't entirely disagree.

I think there's a possibility I'm not explaining myself well enough. I think Kaliyev was mishandled and put in a bad trajectory.

But with other young players, even when mishandled, you would see growth. With Byfield, for example, even when not scoring, he has learned to forecheck more effectively, instead of fly-by pokechecks. He also has shown increased intensity and assertiveness in bouts. He still has issues with deferring the play, but the growth of the game is there.

With Spence, you can see him improve his core strength to separate players from the puck. He's making faster decisions with the puck. He's growing.

With Kaliyev, I just don't see that he's grown since being drafted (and this time I'm looking at him out of a vacuum, sorry if I jump around with my arguments). In fact, his shot has become worse.

I fully agree that the organization mishandled him. But Kaliyev has failed to improve any aspects for the past 4-5 seasons. Both can be true.

 

[Statto]

I really argue here that it’s extremely hard to deliver when you’re put in a position to fail. Kaliyev was playing more of a grinder role than a sniper role when he was getting ice time. Look at Laferriere right now, he’s playing like a sniper and the Kings are wanting that from him. When was the last time that Kaliyev was playing like a sniper for a prolonged period of time? I know certain people like to dunk on Kaliyev for not succeeding as a sniper in a grinder position but we have to be honest about how this affects a players performance.

There is a lot of truth in what both you and KP are saying. There are lots of threads to the situation and it’s definitely not all down to one party.

The bit that bothered me with Arty was his compete level. He did at times compete well and his wall work was ok when his compete level was good. However the compete level fell off and he certainly wasn’t consistent in his application. Why is the question for me, which I doubt gets answered.

Perhaps it was understandable frustration and impatience, perhaps he had a bad relationship with TMac… we can only speculate. However he definitely didn’t do whatever he could to make sure he stayed in the lineup last year, in my opinion.

Sure we can complain about PLD not getting sat, which is a fair point. However “ what about ism’s” isn’t really a strong defence.

I like Arty and hope he gets claimed and gets a shot with a building side that can take some risks with him.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

How should he show it? He hasnt played a game this year and barely played last year. Never really got a chance on pp1. Never more than a couple shifts here and there outside the bottom 6.
This was always a guy that was going to need to be handled with kid gloves during development to get the most out of him and they did the complete opposite.
Weve all gone over it so many times. Hope he gets claimed and can start over with a new team and see if he has it in him.

Never forget Blake's smug fake-dismayed "well he didn't do anything for the team down the stretch"

what was the line, moore/danault/kaliyev that was insanely productive for a good stretch of last season before the big brain stepped in?

obviously he just hasn't been a good little boy accepting being jerked around for some of his most important development seasons, the "off-ice issues" excuse is self-fulfilling

Yeah they were nigh-unstoppable buuuuut we had to accomodate our miscreants Fiala and PLD

Like how many times does Kaliyev have to be on the ass end of this org's bad decisions

Imagine waiving a sniper for playing like a sniper and not a grinder. So if the Kings got Laine would we judge him on his board battles? Like in what world are all players built the same?

Well don't forget he signed Kovalchuk, legendary bomb one timer, and put him on the 3rd line and front of the net on the PP.

Part of that is why I blame the organization for certain.

But if we look at Kaliyev's play in a vacuum (meaning, ignore his 4th line deployment, history, draft position, etc), Kaliyev simply didn't play well WHEN he played. Last season, he was a 22 year-old sniper. But he was gunshy. His shots were generally ineffective and one-and done. He didn't show he even wanted the puck with puck battles. It wasn't just low quantity of play, but low quality, which ultimately is still up to Kaliyev.

So, you have a 22 year-old gunshy sniper who showed low compete in limited minutes. Who would you give him ice time over in the lineup? So many people love to dump on Lewis, but was he even outplaying him, considering the same ice time? I don't really think he has.

Again, this isn't all on Kaliyev. But for the things that were in his control, he just hasn't delivered.

Yeah, we all wish Kaliyev showed more. But Turcotte showed us it doesn't matter what you show us, you're replaced by the older player as soon as the chance arises.

Also how do you expected a scorer to get one shift a period and then snipe it? Guys like that need puck touches. Someone like Lemieux can sit on the bench then go out and slap around the puck and hit people; Lewis can't even do that anymore but here we are. Giving Kaliyev five minutes so his hands go cold isn't a recipe for goal scoring, and it's far from the same leash anyone else was given.

 

[bland]

Kaliyev gave up on being a King last year. Can't blame him for being disappointed in his fortunes here, but there are plenty of teams that would have given him a chance on the cheap if his issues were just on-ice.

 

[Omni Owl]

Good luck to Arthur, he's in a tough spot especially because of that costly injury. To me Todd is the one that really f***ed him out of playing, he had the ultimate say in the final lineup last year and snubbed him at every chance. So f*** off Todd, you archaic shit. I kinda hope he goes on to succeed somewhere else like many ex-Kings have done lately, maybe it'll finally dawn on management how poorly they've run things. Probably not though...

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Good luck to Arthur, he's in a tough spot especially because of that costly injury. To me Todd is the one that really f***ed him out of playing, he had the ultimate say in the final lineup last year and snubbed him at every chance. So f*** off Todd, you archaic shit. I kinda hope he goes on to succeed somewhere else like many ex-Kings have done lately, maybe it'll finally dawn on management how poorly they've run things. Probably not though...

Oh yah, just like the archaic shit snubbed players like Anderson, Spence, Vilardi, Byfield, Lafierrere…the list goes on Such a f***ing lame narrative, you guys gotta get more creative.

 

[deaderhead28]

 

[bmr]

All he needs is a good power skating coach and he will be deadly. I remember when the knock on Toffoli was his skating. And you know the story with Robitaille? That kid is good - may end up being more impactful than Vilardi.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

So far i do not like this (Kaliyev) at all. Actually a bit pissed.

The stuff i have to face with Blake, i rarely had with Dave Taylor & Dean Lombardi.

Lombardi also had some horrible moments (Cammalleri & Lucic trade).

 

[kingsfan28]

Imagine waiving a sniper for playing like a sniper and not a grinder. So if the Kings got Laine would we judge him on his board battles? Like in what world are all players built the same?

It aint just about board battles with AK . If he put the same numbers as Laine who is by far a better player and was #2 OA , you could over look some things. But he didn't. Too many times AK looked disinterested and basically lost on the ice no matter what line he was on. Also, his shot became predictable, he never changed it up. Teams figured this out and would let him shoot it into the goalies chest. He had one of the lowest shooting pct on the team last year, even when playing. Only Lewis was lower. That's not sniping, that's missing a lot.

 

[johnjm22]

So far i do not like this (Kaliyev) at all. Actually a bit pissed.

The stuff i have to face with Blake, i rarely had with Dave Taylor & Dean Lombardi.

Lombardi also had some horrible moments (Cammalleri & Lucic trade).

Don't forget the Cloutier trade. A 2nd and a 3rd for an unplayable goaltender. Plus a blind extension.

I'm also of the unpopular opinion he got taken to the cleaners in the Richards trade. But we won't relitigate that.

 

[Bandit]

Don't forget the Cloutier trade. A 2nd and a 3rd for an unplayable goaltender. Plus a blind extension.

I'm also of the unpopular opinion he got taken to the cleaners in the Richards trade. But we won't relitigate that.

The Cloutier trade was Lombardi showing his bosses that he needed to be allowed to tear it down and start over. Without it we probably don’t win shit.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It aint just about board battles with AK . If he put the same numbers as Laine who is by far a better player and was #2 OA , you could over look some things. But he didn't. Too many times AK looked disinterested and basically lost on the ice no matter what line he was on. Also, his shot became predictable, he never changed it up. Teams figured this out and would let him shoot it into the goalies chest. He had one of the lowest shooting pct on the team last year, even when playing. Only Lewis was lower. That's not sniping, that's missing a lot.

On a team full of two-way players, you can afford to use a Kaliyev on a line as such, where they were utterly dominant:

You see his numbers turn to shit when he was put with losers like PLD and when buried on the 4th line

But in an effort to get their money's worth on several poor investments, they buried Kaliyev to forcefeed Fiala and PLD, and it's been all downhill since.

And funny enough, their numbers were better with Kaliyev than when force fed Fiala:

Maybe you don't want a sensitive player, or one you can't plug and play (especially if you're f***ing lazy like Koala), but the results were absolutely there when used correctly. Also don't forget around the same time he was in the top 10 in the league in power play productivity rate so it wasn't just 5v5 with Danault/Moore. When he was getting minutes, he was a factor. When he was buried, he wasn't. It's that simple--and sure we can make other observations about his pouting and 'drive' and whatever but the facts are the facts. Just another situation where they made a decision based on poorly-chosen vets over youth in order to justify a dogshit investment return.

 

[kingsfan28]

It’s the latest example in horrid asset management.

Don’t think the guy can bring anything to the team by any means, but squandering assets for nothing in return is absolutely killing the future of this team.

He had no value at the trade deadline, the draft, free agent freezy or the PLD trade to Wash. They wouldn't even take him as part of the deal. Teams just looking to make the floor passed too. No team was willing to give up a 5th two years from now to take a chance on him. Teams have scouted him and all came to the same conclusion.

 

[Trash Panda]

He had no value at the trade deadline, the draft, free agent freezy or the PLD trade to Wash. They wouldn't even take him as part of the deal. Teams just looking to make the floor passed too. No team was willing to give up a 5th two years from now to take a chance on him. Teams have scouted him and all came to the same conclusion.

It’s not the value now that’s the problem.

It’s spending a high 2nd round pick on a one-dimensional scorer, and spending the next 5 years trying to beat him down into a two-way grinder.

Arty quit on the organization, but let’s not pretend that his development was anything short of tragic.

 

[King'sPawn]

On a team full of two-way players, you can afford to use a Kaliyev on a line as such, where they were utterly dominant:

View attachment 956815

You see his numbers turn to shit when he was put with losers like PLD and when buried on the 4th line

But in an effort to get their money's worth on several poor investments, they buried Kaliyev to forcefeed Fiala and PLD, and it's been all downhill since.

And funny enough, their numbers were better with Kaliyev than when force fed Fiala:

View attachment 956816

Maybe you don't want a sensitive player, or one you can't plug and play (especially if you're f***ing lazy like Koala), but the results were absolutely there when used correctly. Also don't forget around the same time he was in the top 10 in the league in power play productivity rate so it wasn't just 5v5 with Danault/Moore. When he was getting minutes, he was a factor. When he was buried, he wasn't. It's that simple--and sure we can make other observations about his pouting and 'drive' and whatever but the facts are the facts. Just another situation where they made a decision based on poorly-chosen vets over youth in order to justify a dogshit investment return.

It's definitely where I felt what they did to Kaliyev was a disservice to him as well as the organization.

Danault and Moore were perfect vets who can carry a line offensively and defensively, and Kaliyev would have been buoyed perfectly with them while also playing to his strengths of being a triggerman.

 

[kingsfan28]

On a team full of two-way players, you can afford to use a Kaliyev on a line as such, where they were utterly dominant:

View attachment 956815

You see his numbers turn to shit when he was put with losers like PLD and when buried on the 4th line

But in an effort to get their money's worth on several poor investments, they buried Kaliyev to forcefeed Fiala and PLD, and it's been all downhill since.

And funny enough, their numbers were better with Kaliyev than when force fed Fiala:

View attachment 956816

Maybe you don't want a sensitive player, or one you can't plug and play (especially if you're f***ing lazy like Koala), but the results were absolutely there when used correctly. Also don't forget around the same time he was in the top 10 in the league in power play productivity rate so it wasn't just 5v5 with Danault/Moore. When he was getting minutes, he was a factor. When he was buried, he wasn't. It's that simple--and sure we can make other observations about his pouting and 'drive' and whatever but the facts are the facts. Just another situation where they made a decision based on poorly-chosen vets over youth in order to justify a dogshit investment return.

Which season was that? And dm the link to that stats site if you can. It looks like pretty cool to dig around.

 

[kingsfan28]

It’s not the value now that’s the problem.

It’s spending a high 2nd round pick on a one-dimensional scorer, and spending the next 5 years trying to beat him down into a two-way grinder.

Arty quit on the organization, but let’s not pretend that his development was anything short of tragic.

If you look at the scouting report on him before that draft, it's really who we got. You could almost check the same boxes at the pro level.
I hope he finds a spot someplace else, if not he'll be back in the AHL or elsewhere.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

The draft of 2019 is going from awesome to a disgrace.

 

[Jumptheshark]

The last 10 years for the Kings (2015-2024+):

• Zero Stanley Cups
• Zero playoff series wins

I'm not sure any fan could do worse than that, but ok.

Take a look at the oilers decade of darkness that started right after the Pronger trade. 2006/07 season till we got Mcdavid in 15/16. We were out of th playoff race by December 15th of every season.

The last 10 years the kings have made the playoffs 5 times..

Wings are 10 years removed from the playoffs and the Sabres have not been in the playoffs since the 11/12. So their fans look at a team that has made the playoffs 5 out of 10 years with jealously

 

[johnjm22]

I just wonder how Kaliyev would look on the Byfield-Foegle line right now (I have nothing against Jeannot, BTW).

We'll never know. It wasn't even worth trying apparently.

Personally, I don't like "one dimensional" sniper types (although IMO AK isn't as one dimensional as people think). I like guys you can put anywhere in the line up and can skate. That said, I still would've liked him to get an extended look in the role he was meant for before giving up on him.

 

[Trash Panda]

I just wonder how Kaliyev would look on the Byfield-Foegle line right now (I have nothing against Jeannot, BTW).

We'll never know. It wasn't even worth trying apparently.

Personally, I don't like "one dimensional" sniper types (although IMO AK isn't as one dimensional as people think). I like guys you can put anywhere in the line up and can skate. That said, I still would've liked him to get an extended look in the role he was meant for before giving up on him.

Can’t risk losing games while developing players or we might not have the success we have had.

*Checks notes

Zero playoff series wins and a few lottery picks since 2014 doesn’t happen without some seriously hard decisions. I guess.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Take a look at the oilers decade of darkness that started right after the Pronger trade. 2006/07 season till we got Mcdavid in 15/16. We were out of th playoff race by December 15th of every season.

The last 10 years the kings have made the playoffs 5 times..

Wings are 10 years removed from the playoffs and the Sabres have not been in the playoffs since the 11/12. So their fans look at a team that has made the playoffs 5 out of 10 years with jealously

You got the thumbs up on the avatar alone

 

[Jumptheshark]

You got the thumbs up on the avatar alone

Real sign from here in the UK. I took a photo of F**k Austrial( a real place) and the picture lasted less then 2 minutes here years ago. Since then they have sort of changed their name

Fugging, Upper Austria - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AbsentMojo]

Real sign from here in the UK. I took a photo of F**k Austrial( a real place) and the picture lasted less then 2 minutes here years ago. Since then they have sort of changed their name

Fugging, Upper Austria - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

haha. wouldve been appropos if the people in Fugging told them all to f*** off re. the name change. Should not have caved.