Speculation: Another year of this Bluc **** (The 2024-25 season thread)

[King'sPawn]

Guess which team has given up the fewest goals in the NHL?

I had my doubts about Hiller, but he has turned this team into something of a contender. Defense wins. This mini run has been nothing short of awesome.

Even considering the strength of schedule, they've ultimately played well against other good teams.

That's not to say there haven't been stinkers, but so do other good teams.

Hopefully this translates into postseason success and the young players (especially Byfield) develop good habits.

 

[VILARGOD]

I’ve gotta eat crow on the Foegele signing for sure.

I thought he was a lateral move from Arvidsson, but god damn have I been proven wrong.

He has been exactly what the roster needs.

I'm eating a pretty big plate of crow when it comes to Edmundson. Curious If he can keep this level of play up over the whole season, but I gotta give credit where it's due at the moment and happily will.

Damn Kings. Got me back at the punch bowl drinking the kool-aid. It tastes good right now, no doubt about that. Hopefully it doesn't end up being some real Jonestown kool-aid in an inevitable collapse

 

[Sol]

Low IQ isnt the best description for his lack of consistency. He actually has good sense. Hes really good defensively (outside the first couple weeks of this season) and has made some really heady passes especially to Kopitar and Kempe last year. He sees the ice well. I think youd have a better argument questioning his desire to be the best and his desire to win at all cost.

He has a high ceiling because of his size, speed, and finesse that he actually has shown. You know he is not low ceiling as you became a believer in him at points last season.
Whether he becomes the best player he can be is up in the air but you are constantly dishonest about this player for what reason? You do not gain anything from it even if he busts out of the league in 2 years.

I find this to be extremely problematic. I am going to set the ground for my argument as I have seen this said so many times that I think it's bordering on disingenuous. I am not accusing you of being disingenuous but this topic has some people arguing out of bad faith.

1) Most NHL players in the modern era are capable of making nice plays.
2) What separates these players is their ability to do it frequently and to be a factor frequently.
3) PLD is an example of a player who showed no desire at all on the Kings to play which is why I disagree with your logic. I think Byfield shows desire to play, I see him struggling to implement that very heavily and he has had this problem for a very long time. Hence to me it's clearly a lack of hockey IQ that is prohibiting from being a factor. I think the desire has been OK with Byfield, he could be showing more tenacity, but a clear example of a player with desire issues is PLD.

And yes, at a point during last season I was convinced he was turning the corner and that the tool box was finally set. Posters here had also convinced me that he himself was "driving the line statistically". I have heard how statistics are glimpse into the sport but not objective truth. I believe the stats showing Byfield being the line driver were just inaccurate and lacking depth. While being alone without Kopitar and Kempe he is back to his usual self. Struggling and inept at being a factor.

My reasoning? Well, the fancy stats suggested that Byfield was driving the line so logic suggests you'd expect to see some correlation in performance with the top line with him missing.

That is far from the case. Kopitar and Kempe are producing extremely well without him and have not skipped a beat with him gone. On the contrary without Kopitar and Kempe, he is struggling significantly.

Reasoning suggests that it was Byfield who was being driven and not the driver. That much is clear to me. Look at Laferriere. He's producing very well with Kopitar and Kempe, and most people thought he sucked last year until this year.


All evidence suggests players play significantly better with Kopitar and Kempe carry the water for whoever gets strapped along them.

 

[Schmooley]

I find this to be extremely problematic. I am going to set the ground for my argument as I have seen this said so many times that I think it's bordering on disingenuous. I am not accusing you of being disingenuous but this topic has some people arguing out of bad faith.

1) Most NHL players in the modern era are capable of making nice plays.
2) What separates these players is their ability to do it frequently and to be a factor frequently.
3) PLD is an example of a player who showed no desire at all on the Kings to play which is why I disagree with your logic. I think Byfield shows desire to play, I see him struggling to implement that very heavily and he has had this problem for a very long time. Hence to me it's clearly a lack of hockey IQ that is prohibiting from being a factor. I think the desire has been OK with Byfield, he could be showing more tenacity, but a clear example of a player with desire issues is PLD.

And yes, at a point during last season I was convinced he was turning the corner and that the tool box was finally set. Posters here had also convinced me that he himself was "driving the line statistically". I have heard how statistics are glimpse into the sport but not objective truth. I believe the stats showing Byfield being the line driver were just inaccurate and lacking depth. While being alone without Kopitar and Kempe he is back to his usual self. Struggling and inept at being a factor.

My reasoning? Well, the fancy stats suggested that Byfield was driving the line so logic suggests you'd expect to see some correlation in performance with the top line with him missing.

That is far from the case. Kopitar and Kempe are producing extremely well without him and have not skipped a beat with him gone. On the contrary without Kopitar and Kempe, he is struggling significantly.

Reasoning suggests that it was Byfield who was being driven and not the driver. That much is clear to me. Look at Laferriere. He's producing very well with Kopitar and Kempe, and most people thought he sucked last year until this year.


All evidence suggests players play significantly better with Kopitar.

Yea I get what you are saying. Driving a line by himself is that competitiveness I meant by desire to be the best. Not like Dubois who didnt bother to move his feet and would just float.
I mean by competitiveness like does he want to dangle through guys on mediocre teams once every two weeks and have the goal of the year highlight? Or does he want to lay it all on the line to win games and put the team on his back. Like that third period the other night in Pittsburgh when everyone was gassed it would have been nice for him to be the guy and drag his team to a win. He has the tools to be that guy. The team needs him to be that guy.
On top of that he for sure has issues finishing.

 

[FeartheFur]

I feel the Foelgel-Byfield-Jennout line has played really good recently.

 

[Sol]

Yea I get what you are saying. Driving a line by himself is that competitiveness I meant by desire to be the best. Not like Dubois who didnt bother to move his feet and would just float.
I mean by competitiveness like does he want to dangle through guys on mediocre teams once every two weeks and have the goal of the year highlight? Or does he want to lay it all on the line to win games and put the team on his back. Like that third period the other night in Pittsburgh when everyone was gassed it would have been nice for him to be the guy and drag his team to a win. He has the tools to be that guy. The team needs him to be that guy.
On top of that he for sure has issues finishing.

No one is denying his tools. I think he COULD be that guy. But the amount he struggles to be that guy says to me that he might not have the hockey IQ needed to put his game together. And confidence to me a part of hockey IQ. I can't imagine many cases of players who have high hockey IQ and ability not being a factor consistently.

 

[JeanBlanc]

I feel the Foelgel-Byfield-Jennout line has played really good recently.

That may be so, but I believe the current topic is [checks posts], "What opinions can you voice to prove your troll bona fides?"

 

[FeartheFur]

Just watching the games and enjoying what I see this year.

The IQ thing that’s not even worth wasting my time with.

 

[Schmooley]

Just watching the games and enjoying what I see this year.

The IQ thing that’s not even worth wasting my time with.

The IQ thing is just a weird thing to talk about because it means different things to different people. Just talking with Sol and others we are actually seeing the same things just using different words for it. To me low IQ could be used more for a guy like Kaliyev that gets tunnel vision and shoots from weird angles instead of making a play and picks up the wrong man on a backcheck. I wouldnt use it for confidence and consistency issues though I can see Sol is using it cause those are having to do with the brain.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Leave the IQ analysis to those with very high IQ's

Hint: they are NOT here.

 

[Sol]

Leave the IQ analysis to those with very high IQ's

Hint: they are NOT here.

The first time you’ve ever been self aware. I’m impressed.

 

[King'sPawn]

The IQ thing is just a weird thing to talk about because it means different things to different people. Just talking with Sol and others we are actually seeing the same things just using different words for it. To me low IQ could be used more for a guy like Kaliyev that gets tunnel vision and shoots from weird angles instead of making a play and picks up the wrong man on a backcheck. I wouldnt use it for confidence and consistency issues though I can see Sol is using it cause those are having to do with the brain.

Most observations generally should have more explanation to them, if we're being honest. Saying a guy's shooting sucks could mean: does he have poor placement? Poor power? Does he telegraph his shot? Does he lack variety?

Is poor skating used because of poor top-end speed? Acceleration? Balance? Backwards skating? Slow with the puck?

To your point, hockey IQ covers a lot of ground. Sol makes an interesting observation that you don't normally see high IQ players with skill struggle with consistency. Is it an issue of putting it together? Finding a regiment that works? Self-awareness? Situational awareness? And that doesn't even account for other "IQ" facets like instincts, coachability, etc.

I think the BIGGEST attribute that Byfield lacks in is confidence, although I don't prescribe that to IQ. IQ is intellectual, and confidence is emotional. When Byfield is confident, he ragdolls players by shoving them around (both during play and between the whistles). He plays at a higher tempo, with sharper turns, higher bursts of speed, making plays by drawing the opposition to him rather than moving the puck just because he's challenged, etc.

Anyway, that's why when discussing any players, it is very helpful to expand and provide detail. We can be using the same words but effectively speaking different languages.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Just watching the games and enjoying what I see this year.

The IQ thing that’s not even worth wasting my time with.

<thumbsf***ingup>

 

[deaderhead28]

Everyone crapping on Byfield needs to go back and watch the first 60 games from last season. He was a difference maker. Some people complained about the linemates PLD had. Byfield immediately scored a goal the one shift he replaced PLD at center in a game last season. I believe the line was JAD and Laf. I know preseason has some crazy stats, but Byfield was tied for 3rd in goals and 6th in points in the NHL in 4 games this year. Patience is needed.

Hello Patrick O'Sullivan.

 

[FeartheFur]

There you go. Great post. f*** yeah.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

There you go. Great post. f*** yeah.

Meanwhile, Alex Turcotte is tearing it up on the first line despite the ‘good ole boys’ club writing him off two years ago.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Dare we say that Adolf Hiller has the trains running on time?

Man, that was Mussolini getting his trains running on time.

 

[Lt Dan]

Man, that was Mussolini getting his trains running on time.

 

[kilowatt]

The worst thing to happen to Kevin Fiala this summer was PLD getting traded, because now he can't hide behind a worse teammate. This guy's the only player on the team with a minus, and he's a -7 at that! Eight guys on the team are a +10 or higher, and another nine guys are at least a +1.

What the f*** is going on here? We made a lot of excuses back in the day for Jack Johnson, but as soon as we traded him we won two Stanley Cups in three years. What can we get for Fiala?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The worst thing to happen to Kevin Fiala this summer was PLD getting traded, because now he can't hide behind a worse teammate. This guy's the only player on the team with a minus, and he's a -7 at that! Eight guys on the team are a +10 or higher, and another nine guys are at least a +1.

View attachment 949125

What the f*** is going on here? We made a lot of excuses back in the day for Jack Johnson, but as soon as we traded him we won two Stanley Cups in three years. What can we get for Fiala?

I mean probably nothing from any team that actually even glances at it

It's actually kind of impressive if you think about it, a PPG winger on the best defensive team in the league and still somehow just totally bleeding out when on the ice

 

[bland]

I mean probably nothing from any team that actually even glances at it

It's actually kind of impressive if you think about it, a PPG winger on the best defensive team in the league and still somehow just totally bleeding out when on the ice

Before last night's two even strength goals, Fiala was 13th on the roster in 5x5 points, barely ahead of Lewis and behind three stay at home defensemen.

Dude is essentially a designated hitter.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Fiala, Turcotte, Panarin 4th line!
Just do it!

The biggest issue is having a roster of offensively inept players that can't figure out how to work with Fiala.

 

[NikF]

I don't think Byfield will ever figure it out before he is given a top center role and learn on the job. My theory is that because his physical and technical tools are so good, he hasn't to this day actually figured out what his game even is, because he has never been challenged consistently at that level. The best way to make that happen (if it ever happens) is to give him 20min a game and match him up against other top centers, that way when he inevitably gets schooled and then figures out how to adapt, his mind will actually start forming connections between his toolset and how to use it to consistently dominate shifts. He needs consistent reps against the McDavids, Eichels, Barkovs etc. where he will first get punked and then realize "Oh I can do that with how fast and big and skilled I am? Neat." when he adapts. I think Byfield is the type of guy who he needs you to believe in him more than he believes in himself first, he's not one of those guys that you can put anywhere and they're going to bite their way to the top. Once he sees mentally that his ridiculous tools can work against top competition, then his confidence will grow and he will become that guy, but he looks like a guy that needs that opportunity and trust, he's not going to bite his way to the top with self-confidence off the bat like some players do. Unfortunately the Kings aren't in a position for a player to go through those growing pains so it is what it is. I'm not saying Byfield will automatically become a star center by being given that opportunity but I doubt there is any chance he will make his way to the top without being given that opportunity and trust, I think he needs those reps, it's not going to happen for him from a secondary position.