GDT: Another Game Tonight. Nobody cares. Canes @ Ducks 3/2 8PM

[tarheelhockey]

Jeff O'Neill

This was my favorite post.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Instead of picking out which goals were bad and which were good, how about we simply remind ourselves when the last time was that Cam Ward was the reason we won a hockey game comparatively to Justin Peters. We won't even include Khudobin. That's your tale of the tape. He's not keeping us in position to win games anymore and that's his only job and one that, statistics be damned, he has historically never had a problem with prior to this season.

Before his initial injury, he had a 4-1 win against OTT, I believe

 

[tarheelhockey]

A game where your goalie lets in 2 weak goals (let alone arguably 3 or 4) is a disaster of a performance. You can win most games by scoring 3 in this league. If your goalie gifts 2 to the opponent, the whole rest of the team has zero margin for error for the rest of the game.

I have stood up for Ward the past couple of seasons, because there were times when he really did deserve some benefit of the doubt in regard to injury recovery and our crummy defense. But what we saw last night, that wasn't a guy fighting injury. That was a sub-replacement level performance. If that had been Justin Peters, he'd be on waivers right now.

It's painful to watch a goalie lose his game. This organization made a big financial and strategic commitment to Ward and it's looking pretty bad at the moment.

 

[USNCANIAC]

I have followed this team since its inception and the lean years in Greensboro. I do not usually post on the board, but my displeasure with the on ice product cannot be silenced any more. This team needs a complete rebuild starting with this years draft.

Pittsburgh, Boston, Anaheim and Chicago. What do they all have in common? They hit bottom, retooled and are now perennial Cup contenders. I think Carolina needs to hit bottom. I am not abdicating tanking on purpose, that would be unethical but years of finishing in 9th place have not yeilded the necessary draft picks needed to rebuild. Now we have had some good picks taken between 7-12 but I do not feel any of these players are game changers. We need a game changer or two. Boston's low years yeilded Kessel, Lucic, Marchand, Seguin and Hamilton. Pittsburgh low years yielded Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Letang and Staal. Anaheim's low years yielded Getzlaf, Perry and Ryan. Chicago drafted Toews, Kane, Seabrook and Keith. Our low years (post Cup) have yielded Sutter, Boychuk, Paradis, Dalpe, Skinner, Murphy, Di Giuseppe, McGinn and Lindholm (I will admit starting with Skinner we have drafted better) but I would not call any of those game changing players.

I believe we actually have a good core in place. There is talent on this team. I think however that this talent will never go anywhere for whatever reason. When you look at the Cup winning team of 2006, it was a team built for the post-lockout NHL. The emphasis coming out of the 2005 lock out was less clutching and grabbing and more open ice play. We were built for just that. HOWEVER, as the seasons have passed the NHL has regressed back to pre 2005 play and clutching and grabbing is almost as prevelant as ever. Teams have gotten bigger while we have not. We get pushed around on the ice and seem to shy away from contact. We need to begin to rebuild this team with bigger and meaner players who also have a hockey IQ. This can be done, look at Boston. (I hate them with a passion but I have to respect their team for overall toughness and at the same time finesse). We have finesse only. Even Tripp Tracy has called out this team for its overall toughness and he is as big a homer as you can find in broadcasting. I know everyone wants to win now. We have tried this and to be honest have failed miserably. I think now is the time to begin the real rebuild of this team. We have got to draft higher than 7th for once. Although he gets an extreme amount of criticism, Eric Stall was taken 2nd overall in the draft. That is the kind of talent we have been missing out on by continuing to finish 9th in th East. I truly believe that although it would really suck to finish in "Edmonton territory" every year (1st or 2nd at the draft) we need to. They only way we are going to be able to obtain top talent while still being able to restock Charlotte with servicable players is to start now by realizing that once again we are not makiing the playoffs and begin the process of making ourselves contenders by getting the draft picks necessary to turn things around. It has worked in Pittsburgh, Boston, Anaheim and Chicago and I think it would work here. Let the criticism and ridicule of this post begin.

 

[USNCANIAC]

minus 2 for spelling. Make that Eric Staal vice Eric Stall. OOPS.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I wouldn't put Boston in the same group as the others because they were only bad for one season really. They just happened to get 2 high picks from the Leafs for Kessel. That strategy can work with those examples you've shown but if you have garbage management you can wind up like Edmonton or Florida, or worse Atlanta.

 

[Stickpucker]

Oww that was painful

 

[USNCANIAC]

I wouldn't put Boston in the same group as the others because they were only bad for one season really. They just happened to get 2 high picks from the Leafs for Kessel. That strategy can work with those examples you've shown but if you have garbage management you can wind up like Edmonton or Florida, or worse Atlanta.

I was trying to avoid the albatross in the room that is management. I am not a total front office hater though. I think Mr. Rutherford has done a tremendous job with the budget he had/has to work with. I do however, think that it may be time for a new perspective to be brought into the organization. While I am OK with keeping things in the "family", this club would get a tremendous shot in the arm if we went outside of the organization and hired a new, young, aggressive GM. I think a new GM coupled with a new drafting philsosophy could only benefit the club int he ling run.

 

[Moosetache]

I am torn on my agreement/disagreement with USN....my gut says they cannot (and should not) attempt any type of rebuild with the Staals on the roster. The Staals will get your team enough points that you will still pick 7th-8th every year even if they had no help.

On the other hand...if you could trade the Staals, and get a semi kings ransom in picks, the overhaul can be done fairly quickly (2-4 years) while still keeping butts in the seats bc you have a lot of high end talent coming in with all your picks. That is the type of thing I would be ok with.

 

[Vagrant]

This team doesn't need a full rebuild. There are pieces here that should be able to win together. It unquestionably needs to be shaken up, but it doesn't need implosion. Plus, Jordan and Eric are two different players at two different stages.

I don't think you should sink your team because you don't have secondary scoring. Semin, Eric, Skinner, Faulk, Sekera, Jordan... that's a full trio first line scoring talent, a first pair, and what could be a good second line center with the right complimentary pieces. Ruutu does not fit that description. Tlusty may not either and despite my words to the contrary prior to the season, I wonder if the possibility shouldn't have been entertained to trade him. I won't cast blame but it makes one wonder what the return could have been... but water under the bridge.

 

[USNCANIAC]

I am torn on my agreement/disagreement with USN....my gut says they cannot (and should not) attempt any type of rebuild with the Staals on the roster. The Staals will get your team enough points that you will still pick 7th-8th every year even if they had no help.

On the other hand...if you could trade the Staals, and get a semi kings ransom in picks, the overhaul can be done fairly quickly (2-4 years) while still keeping butts in the seats bc you have a lot of high end talent coming in with all your picks. That is the type of thing I would be ok with.

Here are Jordan's career stats. Notice when he was with better talent in Pittsburgh, he had better numbers. I think he feels that in Carolina he has to do more and thus his numbers are down.

2006-07 Pittsburgh Penguins
GP G A PTS PIM +/-
NHL 81 29 13 42 24 16
2007-08 Pittsburgh Penguins
NHL 82 12 16 28 55 -5
2008-09 Pittsburgh Penguins
NHL 82 22 27 49 37 5
2009-10 Pittsburgh Penguins
NHL 82 21 28 49 57 19
2010-11 Pittsburgh Penguins
NHL 42 11 19 30 24 7
2011-12 Pittsburgh Penguins
NHL 62 25 25 50 34 11
2012-13 Carolina Hurricanes
NHL 48 10 21 31 32 -18
2013-14 Carolina Hurricanes
NHL 61 11 16 27 24 -6

While not overwhelming numbers, they seem to show that when better talent is around, the burden falls off of his shoulders to do everything and he is free to just play his game.

 

[RodTheBawd]

My Ward apologist tank is running on fumes. I still think he can rebound, but I don't think it will be here He's never been an alternate nights type goalie, so as long as Muller wants to go with that approach, Ward isn't the guy. He's still an offseason/draft trade piece, no way they trade him before the deadline if they want to have any ground to negotiate with Khudobin (this obviously would change if they sign Dobby in the next day).

 

[Moosetache]

This team doesn't need a full rebuild. There are pieces here that should be able to win together. It unquestionably needs to be shaken up, but it doesn't need implosion. Plus, Jordan and Eric are two different players at two different stages.

I don't think you should sink your team because you don't have secondary scoring. Semin, Eric, Skinner, Faulk, Sekera, Jordan... that's a full trio first line scoring talent, a first pair, and what could be a good second line center with the right complimentary pieces. Ruutu does not fit that description. Tlusty may not either and despite my words to the contrary prior to the season, I wonder if the possibility shouldn't have been entertained to trade him. I won't cast blame but it makes one wonder what the return could have been... but water under the bridge.

I agree that there are quite a few good pieces here....but I think many people are mistaken about Faulk being a first pairing D. He is a 3 or 4 on a good team. He has been exposed in my opinion the last few months.

Speaking of Faulk, any clue what he hurt last night?

 

[tarheelhockey]

I wouldn't put Boston in the same group as the others because they were only bad for one season really. They just happened to get 2 high picks from the Leafs for Kessel. That strategy can work with those examples you've shown but if you have garbage management you can wind up like Edmonton or Florida, or worse Atlanta.

They were horrible for 2 seasons coming out of the lockout, not to mention trading a #1 overall pick for spare parts during that phase. By all rights they were on their way to being a bad team for the long-term.

Three things changed the Bruins:

1) Competent scouting/drafting, which allowed them to build through the draft without doing it through high 1st round picks. Second-rounders alone gave them Bergeron, Krejci and Lucic. Marchand was a 3rd rounder. Those players are far more important to their success than Kessel/Seguin ever was.

2) Hiring Peter Chiarelli. First of all, he was in the right position to sign Chara out of Ottawa which was a franchise-changing move. Also, he is as efficient as any GM at surviving in the salary cap world. He has managed not to throw ludicrous contracts at marginal players, and has turned a lot of little shrewd moves into gold.

3) Hiring Claude Julien to replace Dave Lewis.


The Hurricanes equivalent to these moves would be to clean house, hire the best available GM and coach candidates with no regard for country-club relationships and beef up our scouting staff.

 

[Identity404]

I think it is pretty clear that Ward has lost a step or two due to all of his injuries, but I don't think that is preventing him from being a decent starting goaltender in this league. The dude is really fighting it psychologically. He needs to get a lot of starts to get going. Ward is Justin Peters 2.0 in the sense that he needs to get a lot of rubber in a game and see a lot of ice time to be on top of his game. He can't make it as a backup in the NHL. We could give more starts to Ward that he clearly does't deserver in hopes that he finds his game, but this might piss off Khudobin and there is still a big risk that he doesn't get any better here. It seems more likely at this point that a change of scenery will work out better for Ward and the team. I think Cam can definitely get back to being a solid starter somewhere else and if we could get rid of his contract we would be able to fill in holes at other positions with the cap savings. The problem is I doubt a team would be willing to take Ward without sending a lot of dead salary back.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I agree that there are quite a few good pieces here....but I think many people are mistaken about Faulk being a first pairing D. He is a 3 or 4 on a good team. He has been exposed in my opinion the last few months.

Speaking of Faulk, any clue what he hurt last night?

IMO, he has the potential to be a top pairing guy, but he's 21. Very, very few 21 year olds are good enough to be a top pairing guy on good teams, so it's no surprise he wouldn't be a top pairing guy on a good team.

It's total speculation on my part, but I've wondered if Faulk was nursing something that keeps him from being 100%. He has seemed a bit off since about a week+ before the Olympics. Maybe it's just the wear and tear of a season on a young guy, but it's been noticeable IMO.

 

[RodTheBawd]

IMO, he has the potential to be a top pairing guy, but he's 21. Very, very few 21 year olds are good enough to be a top pairing guy on good teams, so it's no surprise he wouldn't be a top pairing guy on a good team.

It's total speculation on my part, but I've wondered if Faulk was nursing something that keeps him from being 100%. He has seemed a bit off since about a week+ before the Olympics. Maybe it's just the wear and tear of a season on a young guy, but it's been noticeable IMO.

It is comical that people expect a 21 year old d-man to be in his prime and are already saying he's just a 2nd pairing guy. For someone of his age and physical attributes to be as good as he is currently, people are crazy to be down on him.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I agree that there are quite a few good pieces here....but I think many people are mistaken about Faulk being a first pairing D. He is a 3 or 4 on a good team. He has been exposed in my opinion the last few months.

Speaking of Faulk, any clue what he hurt last night?

John and Tripp said "upper body." Replay looked like he hit his head awkwardly against the glass when he was checked.

 

[tomdundo]

Looks like Faulk had been injured prior to last night:



Mike Maniscalco ‏@mikemaniscalco 12h

Per @JohnForslund on #Canes defenseman no word on him yet. Faulk was a question to play tonight anyway.

 

[djboos22]

I have never given up on this team, I will continue to watch every game that I can and I believe we can still play good hockey. However, we are not making the playoffs this year. Losing these last 5 games has really put an end to meaningful games this season.

I don't think that we need a complete rebuild either. I just haven't liked some of the players that we continue to leave on our roster. As for Muller, I don't think he is a bad coach. I think it would be completely unfair to judge him solely on this season. Now, if we have the exact same kind of season next year then...he isn't our guy. We still have a lot of talent to work with and there is no reason why we cant be a 6th-8th seed team.

Keep: Staal(both), Skinner, Khudo, Sekera, Faulk and Lindholm.

50/50: Tlusty(Maybe see how he plays next year and go from there), Semin, Gerbe, Hainsey and Murphy(I really liked how he has played this year).

Players we dont need but continue to play: Ruutu, Dwyer, Nash, Bowman, Boychuck and Harrison.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Players we dont need but continue to play: Ruutu, Dwyer, Nash, Bowman, Boychuck and Harrison.

Boychuk has barely played this season or last for the Canes, so not sure why you lump him into the "continue to play" bucket.

 

[djboos22]

Boychuk has barely played this season or last for the Canes, so not sure why you lump him into the "continue to play" bucket.

I thought about that too. I know he has only played 9 games this season, but we had him in 2008 thru 2013. Then in 13' he went to the Pens and then the Preds and then we picked him up again. No reason for that.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I thought about that too. I know he has only played 9 games this season, but we had him in 2008 thru 2013. Then in 13' he went to the Pens and then the Preds and then we picked him up again. No reason for that.

Not trying to be difficult, but I still don't get your point. You said he falls into a bucket of "don't need, but we continue to play". The Canes have played Boychuk 10 games in the last two seasons, and this year, only when there was a rash of injuries, so although he may not be needed, he's not a guy the Canes keep playing (like the others are).

The Canes clearly picked him up again last year to play in Charlotte, which is what he's been doing. He's not getting paid an NHL salary while in Charlotte and being in Charlotte on a 2 way deal doesn't count against the cap (again, unlike the others).

I'm of the opposite view on Boychuk now. He appears to be improving his game and playing well in Charlotte and think he should get some playing time. Isn't that what the complaint has been against the Canes? Never let prospects ripen in the AHL? If he never amounts to anything, there is nothing lost here as they are paying an AHL salary.

 

[djboos22]

Not trying to be difficult, but I still don't get your point. You said he falls into a bucket of "don't need, but we continue to play". The Canes have played Boychuk 10 games in the last two seasons, and this year, only when there was a rash of injuries, so although he may not be needed, he's not a guy the Canes keep playing (like the others are).

The Canes clearly picked him up again last year to play in Charlotte, which is what he's been doing. He's not getting paid an NHL salary while in Charlotte and being in Charlotte on a 2 way deal doesn't count against the cap (again, unlike the others).

I'm of the opposite view on Boychuk now. He appears to be improving his game and playing well in Charlotte and think he should get some playing time. Isn't that what the complaint has been against the Canes? Never let prospects ripen in the AHL? If he never amounts to anything, there is nothing lost here as they are paying an AHL salary.

Your not being difficult, I understand what your saying. I know that Boychuk is a guy we use when we need to fill a spot and that were growing him in Charlotte, and he has done great in Charlotte. I probably should have excluded him from that list.