Andrew copp

[Rzombo4 prez]

Yzerman really eating into Larkin's window signing Copp and Holl.

Not at all. The UFA market is so incredibly thin, we would just be throwing the same money at some other players of relatively equal caliber.

I genuinely do not understand why fans seem to think we are going to be rescued by some white knight UFAs if we only save every potential dime of cap space. It isn't going to happen, sorry.

 

[Snuggs]

Didn't hate the signing, but whew, it's a stinker. Been defending awhile and no it's not crippling anything really, still tough, especially going forward. Especially because I wanted Trocheck and Copp was a personal fall-back plan. So, no I wasn't mad when he was signed but I did hope and want Trocheck.

Tough to believe Trocheck would be more worth it at 6.5 per vs Copp

 

[letsgowings9999]

Id be trying to get rid of copp by any means necessary and the ufa's and insert the kids now,try and bring back kane of he wants to and go with something like this....(wouldnt be opposed to moving veleno hes a 35-40 guy on his best season,least rasmussen has the size)

Fabbri larkin raymond
Debrincat compher kane
soderblom veleno berggren
Mazur rasmussen fischer

Walman seider
Edvinsson holl
Johansson chiarot
Petry

Could be someone else instead of fischer but someone with size and can be physical. Would move a player or two for someone with size who can fight if need be and be physical and show teams were done taking shit . Either way kids need to be inserted into the roster asap

 

[ShanahanMan]

There’s a reason why NY didn’t even consider resigning him. He said himself they never explored it.

 

[13to40]

Copp would be better in the scoring sheet, if our game tactics would involve point-shots, tip-ins and netfront screens. Those are his strengths at o-zone.

But all of those plays are almost non-existent at this current team. They just play with different style where Copp is a very bad fit.

Would love to see PP2 be exactly this.

Abundance of point shots with a big body in front tipping/ screening the goalie.

Even 5on5 at times I feel like there is a bit too much cycling and not enough simple dirty hockey. Put the puck to the net with somebody in front of the net to create some havoc.

I wasn’t happy the day he was signed and I don’t think he will ever live up to his contract, but he is not being deployed in an orderly fashion to maximize his strengths of what he brings to the team.

In my opinion it always falls back to an in experienced coach. I know some people will be quick to defend Lalonde, but I’m not saying he’s doing a bad job, just don’t think he’s able to get the best out of this current roster. Will he one day be a Stanley cup winning coach? Maybe as an assistant again. Do I think it will be with this franchise as the HC? Nope. Not a chance… but I’d be the happiest if he proved me wrong

 

[saska sault]

I've been pretty defensive of the Copp signing but hes been pretty mediocre to put it nicely lately. I understand numbers aren't everything, and he's in a defensive role but he really has not done much at all... 40 points I can live with but hes gotta score a few goals here and there. The team as a whole has been hot garbage so it's not completely unexpected he looks even worse when everyone is struggling.

 

[Henkka]

Philadelphia was the most point-shot related team I've seen playing against us. And somehow that's really the worst kryptonite for us. We can't defend against those kind of teams, because we don't play like that as ourselves. It comes from practise.

On Philly, they don't build any kind of other scoring chances, than point shots and crash the net for screens, and tip-ins and rebound. Copp would be perfect for that hockey.

Imo, that's idiotic hockey to repeat only that, best teams always play multiple ways. I don't get why we don't use those situations. No even on the PP. There's no real netfront screener, just the bumper-guy. We have guys like Seider, Gostisbehere and Walman who are good shooting from the point, and guys like Copp, Rasmussen, Perron, Compher, Kostin, Fischer to play that net-crashing game.

But thye just don't do that at all. Think that's a real element missing from this team, we are easy to play against, because we only try to play in different certain one-dimensional way. I like the puck control and cross-ice passes, but the point-shots should also be in play to have a perfect mix.

 

[jaster]

Remember when people were saying Compher and Copp were the same player?

 

[norrisnick]

Remember when people were saying Compher and Copp were the same player?

'21-'22 through this season...

And it goes further back. Good luck finding two more similar players over the span of the last 6-7 seasons (basically from the point that Compher became a full timer). The are f***ing clones from some lab in Ann Arbor...

 

[jaster]

'21-'22 through this season...

View attachment 795289

And it goes further back. Good luck finding two more similar players over the span of the last 6-7 seasons (basically from the point that Compher became a full timer). The are f***ing clones from some lab in Ann Arbor...

Similar stats ≠ same player

 

[Christien]

Compher has that dog in him. Copp simply does not.

 

[norrisnick]

Similar stats ≠ same player

They have had the same deployment as 2nd/3rd tweener C matchup centers heavy on the PK, spot duty as a utility guy on the PP. Identical.

 

[jaster]

They have had the same deployment as 2nd/3rd tweener C matchup centers heavy on the PK, spot duty as a utility guy on the PP. Identical.

Lot of similarities, including deployment, but still different players. They were noticeably different the two years together at Michigan 10 years ago and they are noticeably different in Detroit.

Going into this season it was a classic case of people drawing conclusions from stat-watching. And now, a half season in, it’s apparent they aren’t identical.

 

[SantosHalper]

Id be trying to get rid of copp by any means necessary and the ufa's and insert the kids now,try and bring back kane of he wants to and go with something like this....(wouldnt be opposed to moving veleno hes a 35-40 guy on his best season,least rasmussen has the size)

Fabbri larkin raymond
Debrincat compher kane
soderblom veleno berggren
Mazur rasmussen fischer

Walman seider
Edvinsson holl
Johansson chiarot
Petry

Could be someone else instead of fischer but someone with size and can be physical. Would move a player or two for someone with size who can fight if need be and be physical and show teams were done taking shit . Either way kids need to be inserted into the roster asap

What past actions by Yzerman, makes you believe that they are just going to "insert" kids to the line up?

 

[norrisnick]

Lot of similarities, including deployment, but still different players. They were noticeably different the two years together at Michigan 10 years ago and they are noticeably different in Detroit.

Going into this season it was a classic case of people drawing conclusions from stat-watching. And now, a half season in, it’s apparent they aren’t identical.

 

[Frk It]

View attachment 795325

Crazy you can still think this.

Then again you said we shouldn’t trade for DeBrincat so… shrug.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Crazy you can still think this.

Then again you said we shouldn’t trade for DeBrincat so… shrug.

I remember wanting him or Timo, and Fabbri is outscoring Timo right now... 8.8x8.

 

[norrisnick]

Crazy you can still think this.

Then again you said we shouldn’t trade for DeBrincat so… shrug.

Two things.

1. A partial season is a partial season. It takes more than 30 games to dramatically change what a player is.
2. On the presumption of 2+ 1sts and a 8 x $8-9M+ extension. Half off and discount 4 year deal? That's whatever.

And lets make it three things. How players are utilized really matters.

 

[Ricelund]

Remember when people were saying Compher and Copp were the same player?

Remember when DeBrincat was called “Short Kubalik”?

 

[Detroit Knights]

Didn't hate the signing, but whew, it's a stinker. Been defending awhile and no it's not crippling anything really, still tough, especially going forward. Especially because I wanted Trocheck and Copp was a personal fall-back plan. So, no I wasn't mad when he was signed but I did hope and want Trocheck.

Tough to believe Trocheck would be more worth it at 6.5 per vs Copp

trocheck's offensive stats and fo% and all that is considerably better than copp's. But I'd be convinced that if we signed trocheck, then we wouldn't have signed compher

 

[Frk It]

Two things.

1. A partial season is a partial season. It takes more than 30 games to dramatically change what a player is.
2. On the presumption of 2+ 1sts and a 8 x $8-9M+ extension. Half off and discount 4 year deal? That's whatever.

And lets make it three things. How players are utilized really matters.

Stats aside, Compher hasn’t looked like a hell of a lot more impactful and effective player than Copp in a Wings jersey to you?

 

[norrisnick]

Stats aside, Compher hasn’t looked like a hell of a lot more impactful and effective player than Copp in a Wings jersey to you?

Not particularly, no. Definitely not to the hyperbolic extremes exhibited here on HFboards.

It's two copies of the same player. With one getting more PP time and a bit more time with offensively gifted wingers. Likely because one is shooting way above his career average as a Wing and the other well below. Once averages normalize... it's a wash.

Here's a nice example of this dynamic in play. Take the prevailing opinions of Veleno and Rasmussen's play this season. Then look at their statlines.

There's some weird shit going on in people's heads where pre-conceived notions or expectations or hateboners or whatever else is clouding the view of what's actually happening.

 

[GMR]

That's an insult to prime Kris Draper. Draper in his prime was far and away the best defensive forward in the league. Draper was the original Helm with hands.

I would go so far as to say that if you took prime Kris Draper, put him in the worst team in the league instead of a powerhouse dynasty, and told him to center the first line he would probably look a lot like Larkin.

Kienan, is that you?

 

[Gniwder]

And lets make it three things. How players are utilized really matters.

Of course it matters. Compher has claimed the 2C spot along with PP2 center, which means Copp is an overpaid 3C that's easily replaced by someone cheaper. If anything, you just made the argument that Copp needs to be traded. If they're identical, we only need one.

Now we just need to find a team that's desperate enough to want Copp as 2C.

 

[letsgowings9999]

What past actions by Yzerman, makes you believe that they are just going to "insert" kids to the line up?

Hes gonna have to. Why make any draft picks then. This team only takes a step up once the kids are inserted

Of course it matters. Compher has claimed the 2C spot along with PP2 center, which means Copp is an overpaid 3C that's easily replaced by someone cheaper. If anything, you just made the argument that Copp needs to be traded. If they're identical, we only need one.

Now we just need to find a team that's desperate enough to want Copp as 2C.

Hes not a 2c. Never was ... we'll have to make him available at 3-3.5, no choice