Bingo. Only move him in a package for a top defender or else he has more value being a Red Wing and being a core member of the wings for many years to come.
Value of: Andreas Athanasiou
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Bingo. Only move him in a package for a top defender or else he has more value being a Red Wing and being a core member of the wings for many years to come.
And apparently Detroit turned it down if true. So If we can't even get AA/Mantha+16th for Fowler what makes you guys think we can get Tatar+AA for him?
Tatars value definitely is worth more than a mid first round pick.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Exactly, Knowing Holland that's the only way either Mantha/AA get moved is in a deal for a top defender like Shattenkirk or Trouba if we had a decent LHD to give Winnipeg which we don't. It would've to be done in a 3-way then that's what i would be seeking other then that they stay with Detroit long term.
Well not necessarily. Could just mean that the Wings wanted to get rid of the Datsyuk contract more than they wanted to acquire Fowler. The Ducks may have pulled the offer if their guy was off the board at 20. Anyways I would have taken the deal if I was the Wings.
But value is subjective, That's my biggest problem with most of the trade proposals on hf. Should two top six wingers and a high pick get you a trouba, objectively, probably, but the Jets have a plethora of wingers already so wingers aren't worth as much to them.
AA is fast, he's skilled, he can play all 3 forward positions and he is already one of the fastest skaters in the league in an era where speed is king. And detroit has been a playoff team for 25 years, so thinking for the future is obviously something they're good at, and at this point the speed kills philosophy isn't exactly innovative, but the wings have always been a team that brings a strategy into the next phase of the game, so aa may not be objectively worth a top 10 pick to the league, but he is to the wings.
Especially on a team thats in the middle of turning over their roster. Yeah, they still have kronwall and Zetterberg, but neither of them are half the players they were in their prime, and at this point datsyuk is definitely more than 1/2 of that equation. So trading off kids that have 10years in this league as relatively important pieces (5+ years as impact players, another few added to help teach the new guard winning ways leadership etc.) For less than they are worth to the team is the same thing as plugging one hole and opening another.
Would I take a top 10 pick for aa, if the draft is deep enough yes, but even if it was a historic year, I'd still wonder what if.
AA isn't going to be a superstar, but he definitely has star potential...
drw02
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2013
- 5,736
- 973
As always context is important, something you don't get just looking at stats. He suffered through some tough injuries, but most importantly this is just how the Red Wings develop their prospects. They know AA has a ton of skill, they don't want their top prospects to simply focus on scoring in the AHL, they want them to show they can play a complete, 200 ft game. This is very important to the Red Wings brass and they hammer it into their prospects. AA was also moved around a lot, developing him as a C and a LW, teaching him all the responsibilities that come with both positions. This is a lot of information for a young guy to take in and incorporate into their game, there are growing pains that come with it and it most certainly affects their offensive output. In the end they believe it will make him a better player, time will tell.
That said, I will agree that him being worth a top 10 pick is a bit of a stretch but the Wings probably wouldn't move him for anything less.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
In his draft season the tools were evident but he was one of those guys who left you wanting more. Then he broke out in his +1 season and the rest is history.
Jovavic
Hostile Apostle
I saw him at Game 3 of the Lake Erie and honestly I came away more impressed with AA than I did Mantha.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
That's Blashill for you, Would rather give big minutes to Glendening then the guys like AA whom can score AA made the most out of his short minutes that should tell you something there.
It's not like every other coach in the league does the same thing (Including Babcock if ya'll already forgot.)
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Yep Babcock did that exact same thing, Hopefully Blashill will do better with the lines this year instead of juggling so much like he did last season and the players never got the team chemistry down.
AA is a hard commodity to judge because his AHL seasons have been interrupted by unfortunate and random injuries and his sample size at NHL level is small.
But basically he bottoms out as a defensively ok 3rd line centre/wing with blazing speed and a high probability of 15-20 goals a year.
His peak projection might be as a borderline 1st/2nd line winger or 2nd line center who could put up 50-60 with the right linemates if his passing improves, with the potential for the odd monster season.
His absolute peak would be super budget Fedorov for a season or two, but that would be dreamland territory.
Is he Darren Helm with great hands (which actually would be a good hockey player before anyone cries foul) or can he elevate his all-round game to something more complete.
One thing is clear, his skillset means that he can be just as effective at NHL level as AHL, because in a tight, tactical game, someone with great speed and hands can break beyond the systems stifling the NHL with greater regularity than a more skilled but less dynamic AHL points monster.
I think what makes most wings fans very reluctant to see him be traded is a combination of the raw excitement he brings to the rink, that capacity to be dangerous at any point in any game, and the way his all round game is growing quicker than one would expect given his starting point. Good chemistry with Mantha doesn't hurt either.
Like others have said, he may be worth more to Detroit than buying teams because blazing speed and finishing ability are not exactly in excess supply on the wings roster. So while to most teams he's not worth much more than a late 1st rounder, to the wings he's probably worth a top 10 pick in a good draft year.
But basically he bottoms out as a defensively ok 3rd line centre/wing with blazing speed and a high probability of 15-20 goals a year.
His peak projection might be as a borderline 1st/2nd line winger or 2nd line center who could put up 50-60 with the right linemates if his passing improves, with the potential for the odd monster season.
His absolute peak would be super budget Fedorov for a season or two, but that would be dreamland territory.
Is he Darren Helm with great hands (which actually would be a good hockey player before anyone cries foul) or can he elevate his all-round game to something more complete.
One thing is clear, his skillset means that he can be just as effective at NHL level as AHL, because in a tight, tactical game, someone with great speed and hands can break beyond the systems stifling the NHL with greater regularity than a more skilled but less dynamic AHL points monster.
I think what makes most wings fans very reluctant to see him be traded is a combination of the raw excitement he brings to the rink, that capacity to be dangerous at any point in any game, and the way his all round game is growing quicker than one would expect given his starting point. Good chemistry with Mantha doesn't hurt either.
Like others have said, he may be worth more to Detroit than buying teams because blazing speed and finishing ability are not exactly in excess supply on the wings roster. So while to most teams he's not worth much more than a late 1st rounder, to the wings he's probably worth a top 10 pick in a good draft year.
Wood Stick
Registered User
- Dec 25, 2015
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AA's a bit more ready than Mantha. Mantha entered the A younger than most, had a severe leg break and came from the QMJHL. Mantha is coming off a very impressive GR seasons and a good stint with Detroit. AA is NHL ready. Mantha could go either way.
Wood Stick
Registered User
- Dec 25, 2015
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- 6
Off topic but I had no issue with the minutes Glendening was getting in the playoffs. He, Riley and Abdelkader were doing a fantastic job of shutting down Tampa's top line at home. They were there to play defense. I had a huge issue with the constant double shifting of a useless Henrik Zetterberg, and Blash having Richards and Helm playing constantly with Pavel. He was completely ignoring the leading line offensively of Tatar-Andy-Double A. That line was money.
Syckle78
Registered User
Vatican Roulette
Baile de Los Locos
Defense. Or defense prospects. Right handed.
And before anyone starts suggesting Tanev packages and Joulevi, Detroit has no cap space, and Joulevi won't be dealt at all.
Hivemind
We're Touched
He's already capable of playing Helm-level hockey, but he has more offensive potential that may or may not be tapped at the NHL level.
Henkka
Registered User
24-year-old Right-handed Olli Juolevi (near his prime) would be our biggest need.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Right now i seriously doubt that Vancouver has any D that would entice Detroit to move AA or any other players like Nyquist/Tatar have no use for Edler. Don't make good trading partners right now.
Datsyukian Deke
The Captain is Home!!
For the future, absolutely. I'd gladly include Tatar and/or Nyquist in a deal for a strong d-man and let those other 3 be the offensive core.
As has been the problem from an offensive standpoint, guys like Tatar & Nyquist (along with the majority of the team in previous years) sat back and waited for Hank & Pavel to carry the load offensively, instead of going out and taking the reins themselves.
He'd have to be packaged for a pretty impressive player for me not to be upset with the trade. I don't see us making a move for that quality of defender so I'd imagine I'd be pretty ticked off.
Nyquist was 24 when he became an NHL regular, Mantha is 21. It's not crazy to think Mantha will be a better player than Gus.
Nyquist was 24 when he became an NHL regular, Mantha is 21. It's not crazy to think Mantha will be a better player than Gus.
BinCookin
Registered User
IMHO A.A. is "WORTH" about a 2nd to 3rd round pick.
thats what other teams who may have seen him play would be willing to offer. If no teams offer a 1st rounder, than he is not "worth" a first rounder.
That being said, i would not accept a trade. This is a fast, skilled, large forward... and as most red wings prospects... you never heard of him except maybe since part way through last season.
And I think we like taking our prospects and rolling our own dice. And hopefully everyone a few years from now will say. "how the heck did Detroit get this guy". Or he busts, but I don't want "assets" for this guy... I want the guy!
thats what other teams who may have seen him play would be willing to offer. If no teams offer a 1st rounder, than he is not "worth" a first rounder.
That being said, i would not accept a trade. This is a fast, skilled, large forward... and as most red wings prospects... you never heard of him except maybe since part way through last season.
And I think we like taking our prospects and rolling our own dice. And hopefully everyone a few years from now will say. "how the heck did Detroit get this guy". Or he busts, but I don't want "assets" for this guy... I want the guy!
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