An idea to remove the cap advantage for no tax states

[triggrman]

Thats why a soft cap would work the best. Since it will be fair for all teams. A hard cap gives zero flexibility imo and it isnt ideal for 2 countries that have big difference in currency exchange and income tax.

Not just income, we have to include all taxes, sales property, even gas and electrical costs. It has to be completely fair.
So yeah also outside earnings so any NIL deals would need to included to make it fair.

 

[jackjohnson]

Not just income, we have to include all taxes, sales property, even gas and electrical costs. It has to be completely fair.
So yeah also outside earnings so any NIL deals would need to included to make it fair.

Income tax is the big reason why Forsling signed for 6.5 mil in Florida. You really think it was because Forsling wanted to play for cheap? He would have had to pay 500,000 to 1 million in taxes if he was playing for Canucks. Thats is a huge advantage for Florida.

Brian Burke also mentioned this at hockey night in canada and he has been a GM for 3 decades so I trust his words.

 

[Derailed75]

A few things.

1. States with no income tax usually have higher tax for real estate, property, and sales so the gap is not as big as you think.
2. Even states with income tax and the Canadian provinces have varying tax rates, are we going to pro-rate the places with a low tax rate even though its not "tax free"?
3. Are we also going to give teams in bad weather areas some type of advantage over sun belt teams because the quality of life is better then say Winnipeg? I mean Toronto as a prime city doesnt need any help because its a destination but Columbus, Detroit, Buffalo, Winnipeg, Ottawa and a few others have crap weather and the life style isnt that appealing.


I feel teams at a tax disadvantage just need to figure out how to level the field other ways.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

A few things.

1. States with no income tax usually have higher tax for real estate, property, and sales so the gap is not as big as you think.
2. Even states with income tax and the Canadian provinces have varying tax rates, are we going to pro-rate the places with a low tax rate even though its not "tax free"?
3. Are we also going to give teams in bad weather areas some type of advantage over sun belt teams because the quality of life is better then say Winnipeg? I mean Toronto as a prime city doesnt need any help because its a destination but Columbus, Detroit, Buffalo, Winnipeg, Ottawa and a few others have crap weather and the life style isnt that appealing.


I feel teams at a tax disadvantage just need to figure out how to level the field other ways.

Good post. I think this gets more at the heart of the "problem". Many players have 'f' you' money now and can dictate their circumstances accordingly.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

No. It's your state's fault if people and players don't want to come there.

 

[gstommylee]

Just pass laws at the state/provincial level that says athletes are exempt from state income taxes.

that wouldn't be constitutionally legal. Can't tax one person but tax another.

 

[Viqsi]

I thought this whole tax thing was debunked

Several times. But some folks just can't let go of ready-made excuses for why their team isn't getting what they assume they deserve.

 

[Viqsi]

Thats why a soft cap would work the best. Since it will be fair for all teams. A hard cap gives zero flexibility imo and it isnt ideal for 2 countries that have big difference in currency exchange and income tax.

The problem with this theory is that the point of the cap isn't fairness, it's cost certainty. Getting slightly closer to fairness is a side effect, not the goal.

 

[Section 104]

I didn’t hear people who advocate a state income tax adjustment saying the NHL needed it when Chicago, Detroit, Boston and Los Angeles were winning Stanley Cups.

Still say it’s a problem? Eliminate free agency. If that sounds harsh, they are highly paid to have some restrictions. I have 8 years active military (16 reserve too but transfers are rarer in those) where it was “the needs of the service” in determining my location..although there was generally a 4 year stay at one station and you could negotiate with the detailer over your next change of station.

 

[tarheelhockey]

248 years ago, a bunch of dudes figured out a solution to tax disparities.

They even instituted a system to help solve the problem more easily in the future.

So follow their lead. Get off the internet and go vote.

 

[JPT]

With how quickly this thread filled up with people moaning and complaining I'm inclined to think this is a bigger problem than I thought it was.

Naa it's just a really popular excuse apparently

I didn’t hear people who advocate a state income tax adjustment saying the NHL needed it when Chicago, Detroit, Boston and Los Angeles were winning Stanley Cups.

Still say it’s a problem? Eliminate free agency. If that sounds harsh, they are highly paid to have some restrictions. I have 8 years active military (16 reserve too but transfers are rarer in those) where it was “the needs of the service” in determining my location..although there was generally a 4 year stay at one station and you could negotiate with the detailer over your next change of station.

The second paragraph is tongue-in-cheek, right?

 

[TheNumber4]

The NHL couldn’t even figure out how to ensure LTIR wouldn’t be gamed for cap circumvention and cheating. No f***in way they are competent enough to figure out how to make the extreme tax advantage that gifts Cups to teams go away.

 

[JPT]

that wouldn't be constitutionally legal. Can't tax one person but tax another.

All professional athletes should start their own religions and apply for tax exempt status

 

[Legion34]

Should we also apply cap adjustments to teams who are in markets where more endorsement deals are available? What about adjustments for cost of living? Should we update cap for changes in the currency exchange rate?

The answer is no. Florida was a loser franchise for years, and players had no interest in sacrificing money to go there. Canadian fans complained about the fact that there is a franchise in Florida for two decades. Now that Florida is winning, they want to reduce their ability to compete. Winning is driving Florida’s contracts down, not tax dollars.

1.) this same argument comes up over and over. There is nothing that says the NHL has to cap anything. They chose to make the salary cap system to allow for competitive balance. Now they have to make that fair

Boxing doesn’t have to equalize age/height. They chose to equalize weight. They have to make that fair. You can’t miss weight and say “oh he’s taller”.

2.) the only thing that matters is the 8 year contract. The 2 decades before still jad
An advantage of the Cheater years

3.) 0 no state taxes teams have signed a star player for over 13% aav. High tax teams routinely do for 14% plus

 

[CTHabsfan]

How many times do we need a "My team plays in a high tax area and I'd like a way to circumvent the salary cap so they can win" thread?

 

[triggrman]

1.) this same argument comes up over and over. There is nothing that says the NHL has to cap anything. They chose to make the salary cap system to allow for competitive balance. Now they have to make that fair

Boxing doesn’t have to equalize age/height. They chose to equalize weight. They have to make that fair. You can’t miss weight and say “oh he’s taller”.

2.) the only thing that matters is the 8 year contract. The 2 decades before still jad
An advantage of the Cheater years

3.) 0 no state taxes teams have signed a star player for over 13% aav. High tax teams routinely do for 14% plus

Salary cap is fair. So called "Tax advantages" aren't issued by the NHL.

 

[Jyrki]

When the Ducks and Kings were winning, were people advocating for a "Sunshine tax"?

When the Hawks, Bruins and Wings were winning, were people advocating for an "Original Six tax"?

When the Pens were winning, were people advocating for a "Crosby tax"?

It's literally impossible to make market conditions or even in-league circumstances identical across all 32 teams. Trying to punish the likes of Florida or Vegas because of their tax situation is like saying Winnipeg needs to have a personal cap increase to make up for their bad weather and comparatively small market.

 

[I am Canadian]

Should we also apply cap adjustments to teams who are in markets where more endorsement deals are available? What about adjustments for cost of living? Should we update cap for changes in the currency exchange rate?

The answer is no. Florida was a loser franchise for years, and players had no interest in sacrificing money to go there. Canadian fans complained about the fact that there is a franchise in Florida for two decades. Now that Florida is winning, they want to reduce their ability to compete. Winning is driving Florida’s contracts down, not tax dollars.

There's clearly a combination at play here;

1) Winning
2) Less taxes = lower caps
3) Climate & travel
4) Anonymity

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

The NHL couldn’t even figure out how to ensure LTIR wouldn’t be gamed for cap circumvention and cheating. No f***in way they are competent enough to figure out how to make the extreme tax advantage that gifts Cups to teams go away.

I would have though that the Oilers having Campbell & Nurse on the cap overpaid by probably $8M'ish would be a lot bigger anchor than the tax differential, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
"Extreme Tax Advantage" LOL.

 

[TheNumber4]

I would have though that the Oilers having Campbell & Nurse on the cap overpaid by probably $8M'ish would be a lot bigger anchor than the tax differential, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
"Extreme Tax Advantage" LOL.

Those are issues yes. But the Oilers mistakes in cap management really has nothing to do with the yes, extreme cap advantage that no tax teams have over all other teams in the League, not just the Oil.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Those are issues yes. But the Oilers mistakes in cap management really has nothing to do with the yes, extreme cap advantage that no tax teams have over all other teams in the League, not just the Oil.

How big of a percentage advantage (for it to be "extreme") do you think the organizations in no-tax states have?

I bet that the ability for a team to pay 90% of it's salary in signing bonuses to star players on 7/1 is a similar benefit to the impact of state/provincial taxes. It's not everyone else' fault that Leaf's GM just "give that away for free" without actually negotiating.

 

[FiveTacos]

You all for cost of living adjustments too? A player in California has to spend far more on an equivalent home than someone in Columbus or Winnipeg ... not fair! Give the players on those teams a cost of living bonus, or at least a cap allowance for the teams so they can pay the players more! And you seen how much a NYC apartment goes for, plus they have city tax? The Rangers should get the biggest salary cap allowance of all.

Yeah, didn't think so.

Funny how this wasn't an issue when the Ducks and Kings won 3 Cups in 7 years.

 

[Golden_Jet]

How big of a percentage advantage (for it to be "extreme") do you think the organizations in no-tax states have?

I bet that the ability for a team to pay 90% of it's salary in signing bonuses to star players on 7/1 is a similar benefit to the impact of state/provincial taxes. It's not everyone else' fault that Leaf's GM just "give that away for free" without actually negotiating.

Ya getting 95% in signing bonus for Matthews, is more of a win for him, tax wise over any non tax state.
Leafs only team paying those percentages in signing bonus.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Once we've solved the tax crisis, we'll have to immediately solve how to make some destinations more attractive. We need to make sure Sunrise, Tampa Bay, Columbus, Detroit and Calgary are all equally appealing.

 

[TheNumber4]

How big of a percentage advantage (for it to be "extreme") do you think the organizations in no-tax states have?

I bet that the ability for a team to pay 90% of it's salary in signing bonuses to star players on 7/1 is a similar benefit to the impact of state/provincial taxes. It's not everyone else' fault that Leaf's GM just "give that away for free" without actually negotiating.

Anywhere from 10-20%. Which is huge in a parity league.