An idea to remove the cap advantage for no tax states

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

What time line did you choose?

2006-2024

Here is the last 10 years:

Again, no relationship

Not that I care to get in the sand on your numbers, but how would those numbers look with an adjusted sample?

Post cap we had PIT, CHI, VAN, LAK, DET with their tables set with superstars. I think, to really debunk the tax debate, it would make sense to look at the most recent 10 year sample, as the cap had been in place for a number of years at that point.

Last 10 years^^

Because at the end of the day we’re talking about a sport. A sport with so many variables that we can’t look at 1 simple thing and determine an outcome.

That doesn’t take away the fact that there’s teams with more buying power than others. Even if it’s slight.

If it's not having an effect on outcomes then there is no problem to solve.

All these "tax adjustment" ideas are solutions looking for a problem.

 

[Bust]

So now it's the entire base of US teams getting the advantage?

I’m not sure I understand your question. Sorry.

There’s really high tax locations in USA. Not all American teams have a tax advantage.

However, I’d much rather live in the USA than in Canada. Not that anyone asked, or that it matters in this discussion, tired of living in Canada personally.

 

[triggrman]

I’m not sure I understand your question. Sorry.

There’s really high tax locations in USA. Not all American teams have a tax advantage.

However, I’d much rather live in the USA than in Canada. Not that anyone asked, or that it matters in this discussion, tired of living in Canada personally.

Taxes are individual, not team or state. How I spend my money determines how I pay my taxes. Again, you're taxed on where you earned the money, so the days you played on the road are taxed different, the money you used to buy property or stocks is taxed different, how much money you donate or raise for charity is taxed different. This bs of "well he earned $2M this year taxed at this rate" is just that, bs. Without seeing a return, you can't say what a person pays in taxes.

Also, move to Nashville, we're friendly people, you'll feel at home.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I’m not sure I understand your question. Sorry.

There’s really high tax locations in USA. Not all American teams have a tax advantage.

However, I’d much rather live in the USA than in Canada. Not that anyone asked, or that it matters in this discussion, tired of living in Canada personally.

Some states don't have Tax Treaties with Canada. So a player that lives in California and plays in Ottawa will have to pay both rates which would end up being around 68% in taxes before they are using any tax liabilities to lower rates, like an RCA or deferrals. Again this isn't a a problem for the league or owners, this is the problem with the Agents and Players to negotiate salaries and to do the leg work for their own betterment.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

We call this head in the sandism

Maybe you do in Canada.

 

[TheNumber4]

2006-2024

Here is the last 10 years:

View attachment 893626

Again, no relationship


Last 10 years^^


If it's not having an effect on outcomes then there is no problem to solve.

All these "tax adjustment" ideas are solutions looking for a problem.

Bad timeline. Do more recent history. Reasoning is in a previous post to you.

How did you come up with the effective tax rates for every team?

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Bad timeline. Do more recent history. Reasoning is in a previous post to you.

How did you come up with the effective tax rates for every team?

He literally did the last 20 years and 10 years? What stupid ass kind of confirmation bias are you looking for rather than looking at historical data? I can't decide if you are just trolling or actually that oblivious and obtuse.

 

[TheNumber4]

He literally did the last 20 years and 10 years? What stupid ass kind of confirmation bias are you looking for rather than looking at historical data? I can't decide if you are just trolling or actually that oblivious and obtuse.

Last 10 years would also confirm that the 6 no tax teams reach the pinnacle of hockey success the SCFs more than can be likely expected.

 

[Bust]

Taxes are individual, not team or state. How I spend my money determines how I pay my taxes. Again, you're taxed on where you earned the money, so the days you played on the road are taxed different, the money you used to buy property or stocks is taxed different, how much money you donate or raise for charity is taxed different. This bs of "well he earned $2M this year taxed at this rate" is just that, bs. Without seeing a return, you can't say what a person pays in taxes.

Also, move to Nashville, we're friendly people, you'll feel at home.

Hmm. Interesting. Odd that there’s so many with differing opinions on this.

At the end of the day I’m personally just jealous of the southern states.

Beautiful weather, site seeing, history, women, better hockey teams, cheaper drinks, not freezing your ass off at football games, and now I’ve gotta hear that they’ve got better taxes too.

EDIT: I’d move to Nashville in a heartbeat.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Last 10 years would also confirm that the 6 no tax teams reach the pinnacle of hockey success the SCFs more than can be likely expected.

Yes, but 1 team vs 15 teams is vastly different. Its like you have no idea how averages work

 

[Bust]

Some states don't have Tax Treaties with Canada. So a player that lives in California and plays in Ottawa will have to pay both rates which would end up being around 68% in taxes before they are using any tax liabilities to lower rates, like an RCA or deferrals. Again this isn't a a problem for the league or owners, this is the problem with the Agents and Players to negotiate salaries and to do the leg work for their own betterment.

Interesting. I did not know this.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Hmm. Interesting. Odd that there’s so many with differing opinions on this.

At the end of the day I’m personally just jealous of the southern states.

Beautiful weather, site seeing, history, women, better hockey teams, cheaper drinks, not freezing your ass off at football games, and now I’ve gotta hear that they’ve got better taxes too.

I live in Vancouver, so one of the most expensive cities in the world. I literally look at Calgary and I am jealous.

 

[Bust]

I live in Vancouver, so one of the most expensive cities in the world. I literally look at Calgary and I am jealous.

I’m (just) outside of the evergrowing GTA.

At least it’s nice in Vancouver. Concrete jungle full of idiots, trapped in the same rat race to nowhere, out my way.

Hope you’re keeping cool brother.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Alan Pogroszewski (Who has been quoted in this thread already) made mention regarding Reinhardt new deal: Reinhart’s salary @ $8.625 million annually, he owes $3.15 million in taxes in Florida. He would pay $1.1 million more in California, $1.5 million more in New York and $1.4 million more in Toronto. It saves him over 12mil over the duration of the deal.

California: $1.1/8.625 = 12.8%
New York: $1.5/8.625 = 17.4%
Toronto: $1.4/8.625 = 16.2%

Bust - would you have any links to where Alan P came up with those numbers? Because the % listed is the effective tax rate that he's suggesting would occur in another municipality when compared to FLA. I'm "pressing X to doubt" considering the fact that the players both essentially pay the same taxes in their 41 road games. (There might be a difference for ATL vs. METRO based on #'s of games played in NY/NJ).

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I’m (just) outside of the evergrowing GTA.

At least it’s nice in Vancouver. Concrete jungle full of idiots, trapped in the same rat race to nowhere, out my way.

Hope you’re keeping cool brother.

I am legit just sitting here in my underwear. The issue with Van is AC's didn't become a thing until like 3 years ago. It was something stupid like only 10% of the population had them.

 

[TheNumber4]

Yes, but 1 team vs 15 teams is vastly different. Its like you have no idea how averages work

all 32 teams are considered in this sample.

 

[JPT]

We call this head in the sandism

I always judge someone by how fancy the boot they have on my neck is

 

[HisIceness]

Hmm. Interesting. Odd that there’s so many with differing opinions on this.

At the end of the day I’m personally just jealous of the southern states.

Beautiful weather, site seeing, history, women, better hockey teams, cheaper drinks, not freezing your ass off at football games, and now I’ve gotta hear that they’ve got better taxes too.

EDIT: I’d move to Nashville in a heartbeat.

Not in North Carolina haha

Edit: Misread, thought you said better football teams lol

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Last 10 years would also confirm that the 6 no tax teams reach the pinnacle of hockey success the SCFs more than can be likely expected.

Didn't you already admit that was a poor way of looking at it, twice now? You wanted me to run the data for all teams wins and losses, and I did that.

I guess it didn't give you the results you were hoping for so now you need another excuse?

 

[JPT]

Hmm. Interesting. Odd that there’s so many with differing opinions on this.

At the end of the day I’m personally just jealous of the southern states.

Beautiful weather, site seeing, history, women, better hockey teams, cheaper drinks, not freezing your ass off at football games, and now I’ve gotta hear that they’ve got better taxes too.

EDIT: I’d move to Nashville in a heartbeat.

They freeze their asses off at football games in Nashville, just not in October.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Bad timeline. Do more recent history. Reasoning is in a previous post to you.

How did you come up with the effective tax rates for every team?

I used the tax calculators referenced and the assumptions listed

 

[Bust]

California: $1.1/8.625 = 12.8%
New York: $1.5/8.625 = 17.4%
Toronto: $1.4/8.625 = 16.2%

Bust - would you have any links to where Alan P came up with those numbers? Because the % listed is the effective tax rate that he's suggesting would occur in another municipality when compared to FLA. I'm "pressing X to doubt" considering the fact that the players both essentially pay the same taxes in their 41 road games. (There might be a difference for ATL vs. METRO based on #'s of games played in NY/NJ).

I am not sure where he found his numbers.

Here’s the article I referenced: NHL free agency shows teams in states with no income tax have an advantage

After a brief search on Alan P - he seems to have been writing papers for years on tax disparities. I just got educated on the “Alberta tax” and just read a paper on Brian Gionta and the tax implications he faced when signing in MTL.

I’ll be honest, read more about taxes in the last 2 hours than I care to admit lol.

I miss pure hockey trades, the days before us fans debated player salaries and tax rates. And Don Cherry. I miss that guy.

 

[TheNumber4]

Didn't you already admit that was a poor way of looking at it, twice now? You wanted me to run the data for all teams wins and losses, and I did that.

I guess it didn't give you the results you were hoping for so now you need another excuse?

No I said that a Points percentage approach would be a larger sample so we can dig into it further.

Depending on how you view “success” in this League. Playoffs vs Regular season, both ways of looking at it can be valid. Traditionally people peg Cup wins as the be all success marker of a franchise.

Your results and your method I will need to look at before forming my final opinion.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I am not sure where he found his numbers.

Here’s the article I referenced: NHL free agency shows teams in states with no income tax have an advantage

After a brief search on Alan P - he seems to have been writing papers for years on tax disparities. I just got educated on the “Alberta tax” and just read a paper on Brian Gionta and the tax implications he faced when signing in MTL.

I’ll be honest, read more about taxes in the last 2 hours than I care to admit lol.

I miss pure hockey trades, the days before us fans debated player salaries and tax rates. And Don Cherry. I miss that guy.

Thanks! As a CPA - avoid understanding tax. It's a slippery slope to madness!

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

They freeze their asses off at football games in Nashville, just not in October.

What is considered "freezing your ass off?" in Nashville? It falling below 50F? ;o)