An actual breakdown on taxes per team

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

But my point is that's actually not the difference between teams because that's not the rate the players are actually paying.

You're missing the point. Nobody cares how much they "actually pay" after they donate $100 to make a wish. It's showing what a guy that has a $5M AAV contract takes home before any of that stupid shit in NY vs Florida.

The difference is large. Yes, you can do a lot of tax gymnastics to offset how much you actually pay. That's on the individual players if they choose to have an accountant do that for them. It still doesn't change the fact that certain states have extremely expensive income taxes and others do not.

 

[Killer Orcas]

I wonder if cost of living gobbles up a lot of this tax benefit. Not cheap to live in Florida between housing and insurance.

This a double whammy for Vancouver being one of the most expensive cities around already

 

[TheNumber4]

If you hate the Tax Advantage, then you must cheer for the Oilers to win the Cup. Would show that it can still be done despite a huge disadvantage.

 

[JianYang]

Do these numbers take into account the US and Canada tax treaty?

I think it's a pretty complex issue and there's alot of variables to consider. For one, Canada will tax based on residency status whereas the US will tax based on citizenship. It is entirely possible that some (probably many) players playing in Canada are doing so as non residents of Canada which is a potential game changer with respect to their tax obligations.

The tax treaty trumps the income tax act and whatever the Americans call their tax code.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Distinction without a difference considering all the blatantly obvious external factors at play here.

Just call it what it is, Canadian whining about something they don’t understand and perceive to be a handicap.

Peoples whinging about things they don’t understand is quite fashionable these days.

 

[Azzuri]

Where do you get your Seattle numbers from? WA has no state income tax.

Also this doesn't account places like Texas who have INSANE property tax to make up for no income tax.

 

[Legion34]

Player agents have stated that the actual differences are minimal. There are so many different tax breaks and ways to get around things. This is more of a media driven thing than anything else.

No they have not? What do you mean. Show me a player that has ever said the tax differences are minimal. One agent, Allan Walsh, has said he could make it less. And he has a show, agent provocateur, where he has is actual tax guru on and the guy doesn’t answer the question.

This is factually inaccurate. Many nhl players agents gms and accountants have explained exactly how big the difference is.

John Tavares is literally being sued by the CRA for I think 8 million dollars because he claimed a singing bonus as a us resident instead of as a Toronto resident.

Where do you get your Seattle numbers from? WA has no state income tax.

Also this doesn't account places like Texas who have INSANE property tax to make up for no income tax.

Property taxes are 500k?

 

[Legion34]

As cool as this splooge of numbers is, it's kinda pointless.

Any competent accountant and financial planner could get players in all 32 markets paying about the same amount of tax. There's also many other factors that this does not account for.
Cool data collation though.

Tavares literally is getting sued for millions because of this

Something that equalizes things a bit for Canadian teams that never gets talked about is the USD factor.

All salaries are paid in USD - so when Jonathan Huberdeau signs an $84M contract, it’s actually $114M Canadian.

And while Huberdeau can obviously move wherever he wants when he’s done playing, he’s a citizen of Canada, and Canadian currency is probably what he’ll be using for most of his life.

So by minimizing his foreign tax obligations, and doing whatever sorcery rich folks use to avoid paying taxes, I’m sure the next hundred generations of Huberdeaus will be well taken care of.

???? And if he took home more in Tampa and ended up with more in his account, when he retired back to Canada that wouldn’t still be more?

 

[Eltuna]

Of the top 5 tax advantaged teams they have gone 7 for 10 in making the last 5 Stanley Cup Finals and Dallas almost made that 8 of 10. People hate the tax argument but that’s a pretty significant run for only 5 of 32 teams.

Even Nashville made a SCF 7 years ago, all of the top 5 teams have made a final in the last 7 years and most of them have made multiple like Florida/Tampa/Vegas.

 

[JianYang]

Of the top 5 tax advantaged teams they have gone 7 for 10 in making the last 5 Stanley Cup Finals and Dallas almost made that 8 of 10. People hate the tax argument but that’s a pretty significant run for only 5 of 32 teams.

Even Nashville made a SCF 7 years ago, all of the top 5 teams have made a final in the last 7 years and most of them have made multiple like Dallas/Florida/Tampa/Vegas.

Prior to that, all the cups won between 2010 to 2015 were in high cost markets.

This year, the Rangers were the top team in the league, and made the semis.

There is more to the formula for cup winning purposes and it starts through the draft.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Folks have to come to terms it isn’t taxes why folks don’t choose certain markets.

Its the superior southern US weather
and
Easier media situation with fans who don’t follow your every step to increase your family.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Player agents have stated that the actual differences are minimal. There are so many different tax breaks and ways to get around things. This is more of a media driven thing than anything else.

Yep, this is the answer. The media have used this narrative as a way to rile up certain fanbases who have struggled to find success in the cap era, ignoring the fact that those teams weren't exactly dominating prior to the cap.

 

[JianYang]

Folks have to come to terms it isn’t taxes why folks don’t choose certain markets.

Its the superior southern US weather
and
Easier media situation with fans who don’t follow your every step to increase your family.

The weather gets played up a bit much. It wouldn't explain why manhattan is always a very popular landing spot.

The enhanced privacy and anonymity appears to be a bigger factor though.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Of the top 5 tax advantaged teams they have gone 7 for 10 in making the last 5 Stanley Cup Finals and Dallas almost made that 8 of 10. People hate the tax argument but that’s a pretty significant run for only 5 of 32 teams.

Even Nashville made a SCF 7 years ago, all of the top 5 teams have made a final in the last 7 years and most of them have made multiple like Dallas/Florida/Tampa/Vegas.

And those teams struggled for years prior to that, while the high tax California teams were a dominant trio for the better part of the first decade of the cap.

 

[Dr Robot]

First of all I’d like to say good on the OP for doing some legwork in his post. As to the continued conversation, there’s also stuff like city taxes in play. New York State has a tax rate, then the city does as well. Many major cities these guys play in will have both.

 

[Salsero1]

I don’t disagree, but clearly enough of them have figured out it’s pretty cool to make millions of dollars while being completely unrecognizable in public.

And unfortunately those teams keep making the finals and hanging banners.

They're not unrecognizable, that's just Canadian copium. Believe it or not, people down South are aware of their teams' existence.

It's more having respect for a player's personal time and personal space. I've seen Canes player's in public. I don't have any desire to bug them. It's just not that big of a deal to people around here. Maybe y'all should act the same and you might not scare away a few FAs.

 

[Profet]

How accurate is this? Do local taxes not get taken into account?

For instance: NYC has local income tax, something that I think would apply to the NYR and used to apply to NYI (when they played in the NYC limits in Brooklyn). UBS Arena is outside the NYC limits and I don't think city taxes would apply.

 

[JianYang]

They're not unrecognizable, that's just Canadian copium. Believe it or not, people down South are aware of their teams' existence.

It's more having respect for a player's personal time and personal space. I've seen Canes player's in public. I don't have any desire to bug them. It's just not that big of a deal to people around here. Maybe y'all should act the same and you might not scare away a few

The players themselves will tell you it's night and day for those that have experienced playing on both sides of the border. They might have the odd person recognizing them, but it's a whole different scale in Canada.

But that's just the half of it. The media scrutiny is on another level as well, and that fishbowl atmosphere can get very grating on a day to day basis.

Patrick Roy tells a story after he got traded to Colorado. He had a bad game and was preparing to face the music in the post game scrum. There is one reporter waiting for him, and he's wondering what happened to everyone else.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The weather gets played up a bit much. It wouldn't explain why manhattan is always a very popular landing spot.

The enhanced privacy and anonymity appears to be a bigger factor though.

some guys like the big city lights, other dont.

some players will tolerate the rabid media to play for the team they grew liking, others guys like to be able to go to restaurants with team management without people taking their photos wondering what they are discussing.

some guys want to have milder winters during the season, tolerate the heat for a couple of months then return home to their cooler temps during the offseason.

its not all about the taxes as why guys dont go to the Canadian or northern US markets.

 

[Salsero1]

The players themselves will tell you it's night and day for those that have experienced playing on both sides of the border. They might have the odd person recognizing them, but it's a whole different scale in Canada.

But that's just the half of it. The media scrutiny is on another level as well, and that fishbowl atmosphere can get very grating on a day to day basis.

Patrick Roy tells a story after he got traded to Colorado. He had a bad game and was preparing to face the music in the post game scrum. There is one reporter waiting for him, and he's wondering what happened to everyone else.

I get all that

I was responding to the notion that the environment in Canada should be the expected norm and that a market that doesn't behave that way is somehow lesser and a players who appreciate it are also lesser.

It's a very "nice guy" type of attitude from the fans who complain about it.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Then why have the two biggest UFAs in hockey in the last few years signed in New York City and Ontario?

No they have not? What do you mean. Show me a player that has ever said the tax differences are minimal. One agent, Allan Walsh, has said he could make it less. And he has a show, agent provocateur, where he has is actual tax guru on and the guy doesn’t answer the question.

This is factually inaccurate. Many nhl players agents gms and accountants have explained exactly how big the difference is.

John Tavares is literally being sued by the CRA for I think 8 million dollars because he claimed a singing bonus as a us resident instead of as a Toronto resident.



Property taxes are 500k?

Thought I'd share a player that did talk about the taxes once.

Marc Methot talked about how much more he made before in Dallas. Though I should add that he did go on LTIR which meant it got all taxed under Dallas so that made it even better for him.

Big fan of the show. The tax Guru dodged it all.

O yea - Tkachuk arguably was worth the same as Huberdeau. Huberdeau signed for 10.5 and Tkachuk 9.5 food for though for everyone saying it doesn't matter.

 

[paulmm3]

Is state/provincial tax rate the only factor in determining where a player signs? No way. Is it a factor I have heard multiple players reference before? Yes.

 

[Gurglesons]

Is state/provincial tax rate the only factor in determining where a player signs? No way. Is it a factor I have heard multiple players reference before? Yes.

Nashville and the Florida Panthers continued success before the last two seasons clearly show this.

 

[Legion34]

And those teams struggled for years prior to that, while the high tax California teams were a dominant trio for the better part of the first decade of the cap.

Before that. The 2 biggest teams. The leafs and rangers had 1 cup in 100 years. The devils had 3. I guess there was no advantagr
To rich teams in a no cap system?

When teams could add cheater years to make more money, rich teams could make up the difference. Now that loophole is closed. No state tax teams have a systemic and unfair artificially imposed advantage

Thought I'd share a player that did talk about the taxes once.

Marc Methot talked about how much more he made before in Dallas. Though I should add that he did go on LTIR which meant it got all taxed under Dallas so that made it even better for him.

Big fan of the show. The tax Guru dodged it all.

O yea - Tkachuk arguably was worth the same as Huberdeau. Huberdeau signed for 10.5 and Tkachuk 9.5 food for though for everyone saying it doesn't matter.

Yep. He open admitted to taking in about 1.5 million more a 4.9 x 2 salary.

Folks have to come to terms it isn’t taxes why folks don’t choose certain markets.

Its the superior southern US weather
and
Easier media situation with fans who don’t follow your every step to increase your family.

That’s not the question. The question is if they take less cap hit and keep the same money as they would for an unfair advantage.

 

[bossram]

The US Tax code is thousands of pages long, that doesn't include state and local taxes. Unless you know what these guys are doing with charitable giving, retirement accounts, and a million other things, you're not going to have any clue what any of them are paying in taxes.

This. Local taxes, property taxes, and all manner of personal tax manoeuvers.

No one actually knows what the tax liability of any player is.

No one complained about Florida's tax advantage when the Panthers were a bottom-feeder for over a decade.