Amazon Go, the Grocery Store

Legionnaire

Help On The Way
Jul 10, 2002
44,253
3,964
LA-LA Land
People losing their jobs shouldn't put a stop to technological advancements.

They point of technology is to improve the lives of mankind. This is not a technological advancement and it's sad that you are so shortsighted and selfish. You don't care because it doesn't affect you, and that attitude is everything that is wrong with the world. People need jobs far before they need some **** conveniently added to their cart.
 

beowulf

Not a nice guy.
Jan 29, 2005
59,653
9,187
Ottawa
They point of technology is to improve the lives of mankind. This is not a technological advancement and it's sad that you are so shortsighted and selfish. You don't care because it doesn't affect you, and that attitude is everything that is wrong with the world. People need jobs far before they need some **** conveniently added to their cart.

Well said.
 

irunthepeg

Board man gets paid
May 20, 2010
35,277
3,199
The Peg, Canada
They point of technology is to improve the lives of mankind. This is not a technological advancement and it's sad that you are so shortsighted and selfish. You don't care because it doesn't affect you, and that attitude is everything that is wrong with the world. People need jobs far before they need some **** conveniently added to their cart.

retweet, if you end up trying to automate every job there will be no jobs left and it'll just be greedy corporations with rich owners and nobody with jobs
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
86,665
144,158
Bojangles Parking Lot
They point of technology is to improve the lives of mankind. This is not a technological advancement and it's sad that you are so shortsighted and selfish. You don't care because it doesn't affect you, and that attitude is everything that is wrong with the world. People need jobs far before they need some **** conveniently added to their cart.

Increased efficiency DOES improve people's lives. It's also the inevitable outcome of this situation. Put a moral value on it if you like, but obsolete jobs will disappear regardless. "Needing a job" does not create jobs.
 

Hansen

tyler motte simp
Oct 12, 2011
24,086
10,167
Nanaimo, B.C.
Won't work.

If you tax automation you will extremely noncompetitive against other countries and jurisdictions that won't tax automation leaving your economy at a disadvantage.

Also the minimum wage is the exact reason why we are seeing this rush towards automation & robotics.

Tariff export/import from/to other countries at a significantly higher rate

And by minimum wage I mean every citizen of your country over the age of 16 or 18 who is not working will receive fulltime value pay at a set minimum wage. If they are only working full time, they will receive surplus to make up for it.
 

Dog

Guest
Would you say the qualty of lives of people nowadays is greater than what it was, overall, decades, even centuries ago?

Automation is a huge, huge reason why.

Saving 5 minutes at a store improves quality of life how?

If you don't have an extra 5 minutes in your life, you're lying.
 

Kairi Zaide

Unforgiven
Aug 11, 2009
105,341
12,891
Quebec City
Saving 5 minutes at a store improves quality of life how?

If you don't have an extra 5 minutes in your life, you're lying.
It's not just the time saved (which depending on the store, can be much more than 5 minutes - it's not rare that my parents have to wait almost 20-30 minutes at Costco, or that I have to wait 5-15 minutes in the line at the grocery store because dumb auntie at the front pays all her grocery with 5 cents pieces, people have huge grocery, etc. When you have to use public transportation to get back from the store to your home, a simple unexpected 5 minutes wait can easily transform in a 30-60 minutes delay in your daily routine.

And as I said, such automation could end up bringing the price of certain goods down. Automation is the whole reason you can afford electronics. It's the whole reason you can afford cars. Etc. It brought the prices of those things down drastically, because in the long run, maintenance of these machines cost less and are more efficient than paying a human working force. A single automated checkout machine (and i'm not talking about a self-checkout machine - these things are dumb) could easily achieve what 5-10 cashiers achieve in the same amount of time.
 

Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
60,348
2,397
Would you say the qualty of lives of people nowadays is greater than what it was, overall, decades, even centuries ago?

Automation is a huge, huge reason why.

I support automation accompanied by welfare expansion and improvement. The latter isn't happening, however. I don't trust Amazon either with what I know about them.
 

RandV

It's a wolf v2.0
Jul 29, 2003
27,039
5,166
Vancouver
Visit site
I'll just say, I bought something at a department store for the first time in years yesterday. I was in a hurry and needed to just buy a shirt and go. There were like 8 people in line at the register (me being the only one under about 50 years old). The two cashiers were both geriatric, and took FOR FREAKING EVER to check people out. They were doing stuff like looking up prices out of a binder, leaving their register to help each other out, giving long explanations on why things work the way they do at the store, and generally just farting around wasting time and watching the line get longer. I cannot believe that people willingly go through that on a regular basis, even though it was basically the standard retail shopping experience 40 years ago.

That hardly sounds like the usual experience! You just got some bad cashiers.
 

Bee Sheriff

Bad Boy Postingâ„¢
Nov 9, 2013
24,513
33
Tucson
Won't work.

If you tax automation you will extremely noncompetitive against other countries and jurisdictions that won't tax automation leaving your economy at a disadvantage.

Also the minimum wage is the exact reason why we are seeing this rush towards automation & robotics.

Please defend with real examples
 

RandV

It's a wolf v2.0
Jul 29, 2003
27,039
5,166
Vancouver
Visit site
It's not just the time saved (which depending on the store, can be much more than 5 minutes - it's not rare that my parents have to wait almost 20-30 minutes at Costco, or that I have to wait 5-15 minutes in the line at the grocery store because dumb auntie at the front pays all her grocery with 5 cents pieces, people have huge grocery, etc. When you have to use public transportation to get back from the store to your home, a simple unexpected 5 minutes wait can easily transform in a 30-60 minutes delay in your daily routine.

And as I said, such automation could end up bringing the price of certain goods down. Automation is the whole reason you can afford electronics. It's the whole reason you can afford cars. Etc. It brought the prices of those things down drastically, because in the long run, maintenance of these machines cost less and are more efficient than paying a human working force. A single automated checkout machine (and i'm not talking about a self-checkout machine - these things are dumb) could easily achieve what 5-10 cashiers achieve in the same amount of time.

I'm not really disagreeing in general, but that isn't really true. Henry Ford made cars affordable to the masses without any robotic automation. I forget the exact quote but 'paying the workers the highest amount possible' was part of his industrialization model.

When we had a broad & diverse middle working class most people could afford things (homes, cars, convenient appliances) without having to automate jobs or ship them overseas to get the lowest price possible.

That said, factory work must have been so dull that it's better off left to the robots.
 

Dog

Guest
He didn't say kill them, just that they were a burden and that you can't deny the world would be better off without them

I can understand that kind of argument, not saying I agree with it, but I would understand that side of the argument.
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
86,665
144,158
Bojangles Parking Lot
No it doesn't

Yes, it does. The entire consumer record and history of human behavior say so.

If efficiency didn't improve people's lives, you wouldn't have seen them moving from department stores to big-box stores to online shopping in a 30 year period.

That hardly sounds like the usual experience! You just got some bad cashiers.

I'm sure it's not a standard experience, but it seems like a natural outcome of the department store business model. You can't just jump to another register, or to the self-checkout lane. You have to stand there and wait, hostage to however slow the salesperson feels like being today.
 

Fixed to Ruin

Come wit it now!
Feb 28, 2007
24,706
28,703
Grande Prairie, AB
Please defend with real examples

http://www.businessinsider.com/self-service-kiosks-are-replacing-workers-2016-5

Andy Puzder, the CEO of Carl's Jr. and Hardee's, is convinced. "If you're making labor more expensive, and automation less expensive — this is not rocket science," Puzder told Business Insider's Kate Taylor.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rise-of-the-machines-robots-poised-to-transform-global-manufacturing/article22884032/

For example, he cites a U.S. spot welding machine that works for about $8 an hour as opposed to a human welder who costs $20 an hour for the same output.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/05/26/mcdonalds-ex-ceo-says-15-minimum-wage-would-lead-to-robots-and-automation-hes-right/#6296690a7860

Ed Rensi, the ex-President and CEO of McDonald USA, has said that a $15 minimum wage would lead to greater automation within the locations of that company and its franchisees. And, of course, he's absolutely right. Price changes alter demand.

The other point you are forgetting in your argument is that humans carry costs other than the hourly wage. Humans take sick days, vacation days, don't work 24 hrs a day, ect ect.

Human Labour is always in competition with automation. As automation gets more advanced and cheaper to operate on a cost per hour basis it will replace humans.
 

Deficient Mode

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
60,348
2,397
Yes, it does. The entire consumer record and history of human behavior say so.

If efficiency didn't improve people's lives, you wouldn't have seen them moving from department stores to big-box stores to online shopping in a 30 year period.

You seem to be conflating "consumers" with "people."

http://www.businessinsider.com/self-service-kiosks-are-replacing-workers-2016-5



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rise-of-the-machines-robots-poised-to-transform-global-manufacturing/article22884032/



http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/05/26/mcdonalds-ex-ceo-says-15-minimum-wage-would-lead-to-robots-and-automation-hes-right/#6296690a7860



The other point you are forgetting in your argument is that humans carry costs other than the hourly wage. Humans take sick days, vacation days, don't work 24 hrs a day, ect ect.

Human Labour is always in competition with automation. As automation gets more advanced and cheaper to operate on a cost per hour basis it will replace humans.

Interesting that in Seattle, where a $15 minimum wage was actually implemented, unemployment hit a new low despite a rapidly expanding workforce and despite all the same naysaying: http://ritholtz.com/2016/12/seattle-min-wage-update/

All the rest is just vague scaremongering from exorbitantly wealthy people who don't want to pay their employees. And if you think they wouldn't have moved toward automated workers even without a push for an increased minimum wage, well, I don't know what to tell you. This started a long time ago.
 

Fixed to Ruin

Come wit it now!
Feb 28, 2007
24,706
28,703
Grande Prairie, AB
You seem to be conflating "consumers" with "people."



Interesting that in Seattle, where a $15 minimum wage was actually implemented, unemployment hit a new low despite a rapidly expanding workforce and despite all the same naysaying: http://ritholtz.com/2016/12/seattle-min-wage-update/

All the rest is just vague scaremongering from exorbitantly wealthy people who don't want to pay their employees. And if you think they wouldn't have moved toward automated workers even without a push for an increased minimum wage, well, I don't know what to tell you. This started a long time ago.

My argument is not just the minimum wage. Any in increase in labor costs make automation more attractive to a business owners. Minimum wage is a part of that cost but not the entire argument.

As for what I bolded. You can discount the words of fast food CEOs if you want but they employ millions of workers so their actions will have the biggest impact. The former CEO of McDonalds was a robotics expert. I don't think they hired him for scaremongering.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad