GDT: All things training camp

[Jets]

If anything Arneil’s 13 and 7 comments just slammed the door shut for any young guys getting an opportunity.

Scheifele
Connor
Vilardi
Ehlers
Namestnikov
Iafallo
Perfetti
Lowry
Niederrieter
Appleton
Gustafsson
Barron
Kupari

Morrissey
Demelo
Pionk
Samberg
Miller
Stanley
Heinola


All others need not bother to show up.

 

[KingBogo]

I'd like to see more of him

He gives me James Wright vibes, but with a better toolbox. He's never been a prolific scorer at any level but IIRC Chevy was very high on him and wanted him included in the PLD deal

Why? He is horrible. If the object of the game was to skate around as fast as you could and avoid any type of contribution to the outcome of the game he is your guy. He had 1 assist in 28 games and had the worst GF% (not an advanced stat) on the team, not counting Miller who had a 5 game sample size. If you look at more advanced stats he does not come out well either. I'd much rather insert young skill that can contribute and develop into important players on the team, than hanging onto players that have little value.

 

[KingBogo]

If anything Arneil’s 13 and 7 comments just slammed the door shut for any young guys getting an opportunity.

Scheifele
Connor
Vilardi
Ehlers
Namestnikov
Iafallo
Perfetti
Lowry
Niederrieter
Appleton
Gustafsson
Barron
Kupari

Morrissey
Demelo
Pionk
Samberg
Miller
Stanley
Heinola


All others need not bother to show up.

I'd take that comment with a grain of salt. What coach doesn't want as much bodies around as they can? We have plenty of tweeners that the organization won't care a lick if they sit in the PB. It sounded more like it might be an option if they are cash strapped, since he went straight to mentioning the cap. Maybe a talking point from Chevy, if the Perfetti deal ends up being long term and pushes them tighter to the cap.

 

[surixon]

I'd take that comment with a grain of salt. What coach doesn't want as much bodies around as they can? We have plenty of tweeners that the organization won't care a lick if they sit in the PB. It sounded more like it might be an option if they are cash strapped, since he went straight to mentioning the cap. Maybe a talking point from Chevy, if the Perfetti deal ends up being long term and pushes them tighter to the cap.

Yeah, that was my thought as well. It only makes sense to run that size of roster if Cole signs a max term deal for 6.5 to 7 million aav.

 

[Buffdog]

Why? He is horrible. If the object of the game was to skate around as fast as you could and avoid any type of contribution to the outcome of the game he is your guy. He had 1 assist in 28 games and had the worst GF% (not an advanced stat) on the team, not counting Miller who had a 5 game sample size. If you look at more advanced stats he does not come out well either. I'd much rather insert young skill that can contribute and develop into important players on the team, than hanging onto players that have little value.

At least call GF% what it really is... +/- with a fancy name. His sample size in terms of icetime is tiny for last year

He's a young, former 1st round pick who skates well and has a good shot. The type of guy who can pressure the puck in the O zone that can lead to extended shifts down there, which is what you're hoping for with them.

He's also put up OK numbers in the AHL. I just think that there's some meat left on the bone for him

 

[KingBogo]

Yeah, that was my thought as well. It only makes sense to run that size of roster if Cole signs a max term deal for 6.5 to 7 million aav.

Yeah, it is hard to get a read on the situation. I get the point of view that Perfetti hasn't shown enough for a long term, but the getting him at a discount long term is more persuasive to me. He was a top 10 pick, who could have gone in the 5-7 range. He has had injury problems and some less than ideal usage, but he still has shown he has top 6 skill. IMO you take a chance on him now to avoid having to pay a couple million more per season AAV a couple years from now.

 

[KingBogo]

At least call GF% what it really is... +/- with a fancy name. His sample size in terms of icetime is tiny for last year

He's a young, former 1st round pick who skates well and has a good shot. The type of guy who can pressure the puck in the O zone that can lead to extended shifts down there, which is what you're hoping for with them.

He's also put up OK numbers in the AHL. I just think that there's some meat left on the bone for him

But why worry about a little meat on the bone, when you have a couple Porterhouses ready for the BBQ instead.

 

[Buffdog]

But why worry about a little meat on the bone, when you have a couple Porterhouses ready for the BBQ instead.

I think that maybe Chibs could be a bottom 6 option but Lambert is better served on the Moose playing big minutes instead of 8-10 on the 4th line here (if those are the steaks you're talking about)

 

[Heldig]

Would love to see an infusion of some talented youth. But my expectations are we will have a veteran loaded roster with some experienced plugs filling the 4th line.

Barring a huge surprise, line 1 will stay in tact:
Connor - Scheifele - Vilardi

Since Lowry gets 2nd line minutes an upgrade on the wing would be ideal:
Niedereiter - Lowry - Ehlers (gives Ehlers more minutes and he can rag the puck and throw it at the net and let Lowry and Niedereitter crash the crease.

I like Chibrikov's game and think a 4th line of:
Barron - Namestnikov - Chibrikov could be effective.

Which leaves:
Perfetti - Lambert - Appleton/Iafallo

 

[surixon]

Yeah, it is hard to get a read on the situation. I get the point of view that Perfetti hasn't shown enough for a long term, but the getting him at a discount long term is more persuasive to me. He was a top 10 pick, who could have gone in the 5-7 range. He has had injury problems and some less than ideal usage, but he still has shown he has top 6 skill. IMO you take a chance on him now to avoid having to pay a couple million more per season AAV a couple years from now.

When in the top 6 he's performed just like KC, Ehlers and Scheifele did at the same age. He just didn't get the minutes they did to achieve the same raw point totals as we have a much deeper team now.

I don't know what way this will shake out. Media seems to be screaming it will be a bridge, but the org is saying an acting like it could be long term. Guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[KingBogo]

I think that maybe Chibs could be a bottom 6 option but Lambert is better served on the Moose playing big minutes instead of 8-10 on the 4th line here (if those are the steaks you're talking about)

Why play on the 4th line? The organization had its most successful period immediately following an aggressive period of breaking in their young talent early between 2013 - 2016. I'd argue we need to do this now, while our older core is still young enough to mesh with them. We aren't some juggernaut that has this great reserve of veteran talent. We mostly just spin our wheels in place.

 

[surixon]

Why play on the 4th line? The organization had its most successful period immediately following an aggressive period of breaking in their young talent early between 2013 - 2016. I'd argue we need to do this now, while our older core is still young enough to mesh with them. We aren't some juggernaut that has this great reserve of veteran talent. We mostly just spin our wheels in place.

Oh I agree but it seems like they are leaning towards next year as the major infusion year when they have all those expiring contracts.

 

[KingBogo]

Oh I agree but it seems like they are leaning towards next year as the major infusion year when they have all those expiring contracts.

Except there is some limit to it. You break in Heinola and Lambert this year. The following year Chibirkov and Salo, the following year Yager and who is ready next (maybe Fonzie). My main point is you start injecting young talent in over safe bottom of the roster options.

 

[hockeyarena]

Just waive Appleton, he isn't an nhl caliber player and you can't tell me he's more valuable to us than chibby or lambert

 

[DRW204]

I'm guessing the top 9 is already pretty much set. It'll be the same cast of characters as last season once Perfetti signs.

However, If his hold out goes into the year - which I'm not expecting - Lambert will fill that spot, and if Lambert flourishes maybe he sticks in the lineup in some manner - ie: Kyle Connor 2017 post Perreault injury

I think for all these high picked or 1st rd Fwds, it's essentially top 6 or nothing, & Arniel kind of said that earlier this offseason in regards to Perfetti. I think the same applies to Lambert.

Like @Buffdog mentioned, not sure how much benefit Lambert gets playing 4th lines with crap offensive players around 8-10 mins a night, and perhaps some nights being game-scripted out completely

 

[KingBogo]

Just waive Appleton, he isn't an nhl caliber player and you can't tell me he's more valuable to us than chibby or lambert

Agreed. That is something a team with a win every season attitude like LV would do. Except we will hold onto him and then probably extend him for another couple years after that.

 

[Heldig]

Just waive Appleton, he isn't an nhl caliber player and you can't tell me he's more valuable to us than chibby or lambert

82

14

22

36

26

16

Stats say he is definitely NHL caliber. He just plays too high in the lineup and blocks young talent.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

But why worry about a little meat on the bone, when you have a couple Porterhouses ready for the BBQ instead.

In a steakhouse league, the Jets are the Vegan substitute on the menu. Tofu Go, Tofu Go.

 

[surixon]

Agreed. That is something a team with a win every season attitude like LV would do. Except we will hold onto him and then probably extend him for another couple years after that.

There in lies the issue. This org has brought in a lot of depth players over the last few year on term deals, or extended said talent. It makes it hard to fit your Lambert's/Heinola's in whe you are spending roughly $25 million in cap on depth (Nino, Appelton, Namestnikov, iafallo, Dillion, and Schmidt).

You don't need to sell me on your youth integration plan. Dallas has showed everyone how to merge an old and young core to create an elite team. If it were up to me I would have been more aggressive with it. I would have had Perfetti and Snerg in advanced roles last year, I would have integrated Ville once he was healthy down the stretch. It would have given this org much more certainty in what they had going into this year and would have maybe given such a risk adverse org more of a safety net to integrate more young talent.

 

[DRW204]

Just waive Appleton, he isn't an nhl caliber player and you can't tell me he's more valuable to us than chibby or lambert

Appelton produced better than both Nino and Lowry, while costing 1-2m less. He's definitely NHL caliber.

Just my view, I am not sure if v young or inexperienced offensive skilled fwds are the best fit on the Lowry line.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I'm guessing the top 9 is already pretty much set. It'll be the same cast of characters as last season once Perfetti signs.

However, If his hold out goes into the year - which I'm not expecting - Lambert will fill that spot, and if Lambert flourishes maybe he sticks in the lineup in some manner - ie: Kyle Connor 2017 post Perreault injury

I think for all these high picked or 1st rd Fwds, it's essentially top 6 or nothing, & Arniel kind of said that earlier this offseason in regards to Perfetti. I think the same applies to Lambert.

Like @Buffdog mentioned, not sure how much benefit Lambert gets playing 4th lines with crap offensive players around 8-10 mins a night, and perhaps some nights being game-scripted out completely

Seriously it’s always set here.
Lambert like you suggested isn’t going to get any benefit on the 4th line with limited play and less than ideal line mates.

 

[voyageur]

I still see Stan as part of the 6 - if not, he's 7
I can also see Ville/Stan platooning based on the opposition - we have a very small D group now and there will be nights we will want to add some size.
Actually I'm just teeing this up for the "Can't teach 6 7" crew -


IMO, he has a motor but no tool box

Loved Arniel's comments on "compete" - hope it sinks in and he holds them to it

If you look at how coaches, and you would think Arniel as d-coach had some input, used personnel last year, Stanley got more games than Miller down the stretch and in the playoffs. Miller might be the #7 if Heinola steps up, because I think Stanley has a job to lose. Heinola might play the same role Schmidtty did, and bounce from top pair to bottom pair, depending on the role, responsibility, etc. I am not sure why Miller's 1 good game last year makes him anything of a lock on the right side.

I also wonder if it is not Chevy calling the shots. Arniel might like 22, but if you are Chevy and you try to pass a guy like Fleury on waivers, and he gets picked up, within the conference, you just gave away a player, for which you have no depth behind. Kuzmin isn't coming up to kill penalties, if Samberg or Big Stan goes down. Morrissey can kill penalties, but previous coaches (two experienced ones) didn't use him on the PK to get more offense out of him...Unless Ville really breaks out offensively I have a hard time seeing coaches go in that direction, and I am not sure if Heinola will be called upon to kill penalties...Guess we'll have to see, but I think he is going to get more looks as an offensive player, in zone time, and PP.

Fleury to be seems like he'd be a good pressbox guy, for more than half the season.

 

[LowLefty]

If you look at how coaches, and you would think Arniel as d-coach had some input, used personnel last year, Stanley got more games than Miller down the stretch and in the playoffs. Miller might be the #7 if Heinola steps up, because I think Stanley has a job to lose. Heinola might play the same role Schmidtty did, and bounce from top pair to bottom pair, depending on the role, responsibility, etc. I am not sure why Miller's 1 good game last year makes him anything of a lock on the right side.

I also wonder if it is not Chevy calling the shots. Arniel might like 22, but if you are Chevy and you try to pass a guy like Fleury on waivers, and he gets picked up, within the conference, you just gave away a player, for which you have no depth behind. Kuzmin isn't coming up to kill penalties, if Samberg or Big Stan goes down. Morrissey can kill penalties, but previous coaches (two experienced ones) didn't use him on the PK to get more offense out of him...Unless Ville really breaks out offensively I have a hard time seeing coaches go in that direction, and I am not sure if Heinola will be called upon to kill penalties...Guess we'll have to see, but I think he is going to get more looks as an offensive player, in zone time, and PP.

Fleury to be seems like he'd be a good pressbox guy, for more than half the season.

Personally, I see Miller as the RHD (which had nothing to do with Stan LY) because he is a natural RHD -he is the guy that has a job to lose.
Stan and Ville will fight it out for the left side - and at this point, I wouldn't project any further than that for either of them.
I certainly wouldn't be considering Ville up and down the lineup until we see how he does in reg season play. Most of the good vibes on Ville lately have been based on his play in preseason LY - which IMO, means next to nothing other than a potential look in reg season. I hope he does well - we need the help back there. But if he gets run over, I can see him on his way out.

As for Fleury, isn't he on a two way contract?

 

[Board Bard]

If anything Arneil’s 13 and 7 comments just slammed the door shut for any young guys getting an opportunity.

Scheifele
Connor
Vilardi
Ehlers
Namestnikov
Iafallo
Perfetti
Lowry
Niederrieter
Appleton
Gustafsson
Barron
Kupari

Morrissey
Demelo
Pionk
Samberg
Miller
Stanley
Heinola


All others need not bother to show up.

Any coach who keeps Kupari on a roster over someone like Lambert (or pretty much any other person on Earth) doesn't deserve the job and should start wearing T-shirts saying "As A Coach I Stink Mightily." Kupari is a complete and utter bust and shouldn't be anywhere near an NHL roster. If Chevyldayoff pressures Arniel to keep Kupari on the roster, then Chevyldayoff needs his head examined. And Arniel should tell him to f*** off and mind his own business, part of which should involve trading Kupari to some sucker or assigning him to the minors forever, the sooner the better.