All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread XIV: Okay, but now what?

[raynman]

My problem with the PP was that it looked so much better when they had Aho and Necas available for one timers yet they consistently ran it with them on their forehand side.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Our powerplay is the most baffling thing in hockey. Every year, we run into the same thing, where 90% of our powerplays look like they're being performed by people who just laced up their first skates that morning. And then we'll have a stretch of games where it's suddenly the most deadly, efficient PP all season. Only to revert back to garbage 3-4 games later.

But because of those deadly, efficient games, our PP% doesn't reach historically bad numbers.

We don’t have the horses for a good PP. we have a great 2-3rd line defensive team. Look at this list compared to the top PP units in the League (this is on the Borg not Rod):

Noesen - Aho - Jarvis

Drury - Kotkaniemi - Teravainen

MacEachern - Staal - Necas

Martinook - Stastny - Fast

 

[Svechhammer]

Our powerplay is the most baffling thing in hockey. Every year, we run into the same thing, where 90% of our powerplays look like they're being performed by people who just laced up their first skates that morning. And then we'll have a stretch of games where it's suddenly the most deadly, efficient PP all season. Only to revert back to garbage 3-4 games later.

But because of those deadly, efficient games, our PP% doesn't reach historically bad numbers.

What's very curious to me is that guys like Gost and Burns started off their stints with the Canes putting up points right away on the PP only to see the numbers sharply fall off shortly thereafter. Its almost like something about the system we run (or lack thereof) actively drags good players down to its level of ineptness whenever they're brought in

 

[SlavinAway]

Our powerplay is the most baffling thing in hockey. Every year, we run into the same thing, where 90% of our powerplays look like they're being performed by people who just laced up their first skates that morning. And then we'll have a stretch of games where it's suddenly the most deadly, efficient PP all season. Only to revert back to garbage 3-4 games later.

But because of those deadly, efficient games, our PP% doesn't reach historically bad numbers.

While I don't disagree with your overall premise in regards to the bolded I urge you to check out some beer league games at your local rink lol.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Btw: this was a physical series where Meier would have made a big difference for us.

 

[Sigurd]

Btw: this was a physical series where Meier would have made a big difference for us.

Yeah, I couldn't help but think that despite Meier's struggle in the playoffs point wise with New Jersey, at the very least, his physicality would've helped the Canes against Florida.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

Yeah, I couldn't help but think that despite Meier's struggle in the playoffs point wise with New Jersey, at the very least, his physicality would've helped the Canes against Florida.

Given the oddles of cap space this off season I wonder if the Borg takes another run at him if he gets hung up with negotiations with Jersey.

 

[Svechhammer]

Given the oddles of cap space this off season I wonder if the Borg takes another run at him if he gets hung up with negotiations with Jersey.

Its definitely interesting that he didn't sign an extension right away after being traded. From all reports, that was supposed to be a formality should he go to NJ because of mutual interest plus the amount of his friends they already had under the fold long term.

I still won't hold my breath too much, but if he does shake loose, we'd be stupid to not full court press him to bring him in. He's still a perfect fit for the Brindy system, from physicality to scoring.

 

[Chrispy]

What's very curious to me is that guys like Gost and Burns started off their stints with the Canes putting up points right away on the PP only to see the numbers sharply fall off shortly thereafter. Its almost like something about the system we run (or lack thereof) actively drags good players down to its level of ineptness whenever they're brought in

I don't think it's actively dragging good players as much as defenses keying on the point man to shoot. That makes Burns and Gost have to pass to one of the lesser threats on the PP, who also appear to be hesitant to shoot.

They brought in good point men, but you can't execute a good PP without multiple threats.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I don't think it's actively dragging good players as much as defenses keying on the point man to shoot. That makes Burns and Gost have to pass to one of the lesser threats on the PP, who also appear to be hesitant to shoot.

They brought in good point men, but you can't execute a good PP without multiple threats.

Yea, we're so predictable with the perimeter play on the PP and the pass-hold-pass-dump shot that it's incredibly easy to defend against. I think we were effective those first 2 games of Ghost-Burns because we suddenly had more threats on the PP and our point shots had some potency instead of obvious dumps. After 2 games, teams then realized that if you could press them or force them to make dump shots too, nobody else was really a threat

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Burns had a negligible difference in points per 60 on the PP.

5.69 first 41
5.46 last 41

His points difference in the 2nd half was due to drop in ice time. We got less PP time and we started playing ghost on there as well.

 

[Svechhammer]

I don't think it's actively dragging good players as much as defenses keying on the point man to shoot. That makes Burns and Gost have to pass to one of the lesser threats on the PP, who also appear to be hesitant to shoot.

They brought in good point men, but you can't execute a good PP without multiple threats.

I keep saying our best PP execution over the last few years was at the beginning of last season when it deliberately set up at and below the faceoff circles and only bounced it back to the point for an immediate shot or a pass to the other side of the ice. As soon as we settled back into having the PP set up shop at the blue line, it sharply regressed to what we see now.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I don't think it's actively dragging good players as much as defenses keying on the point man to shoot. That makes Burns and Gost have to pass to one of the lesser threats on the PP, who also appear to be hesitant to shoot.

They brought in good point men, but you can't execute a good PP without multiple threats.

Agree with this.

You can almost see the slight confusion bubbling in Burns’s head as he passes to the halfwall to Necas… who passes it back to him… and then he passes back to Necas… and then Necas does nothing but pass back to him… so he goes to the other halfwall to see if Aho wants to do something… but Aho just passes it back to him… so he says “f*** it maybe Noesen can tip this” and just eventually fires a shot. I don’t think that’s on Burns. I really don’t see a “shoot first” guy with Burns on the PP so much as I see a “shoot because no one else is doing anything” guy.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Agree with this.

You can almost see the slight confusion bubbling in Burns’s head as he passes to the halfwall to Necas… who passes it back to him… and then he passes back to Necas… and then Necas does nothing but pass back to him… so he goes to the other halfwall to see if Aho wants to do something… but Aho just passes it back to him… so he says “f*** it maybe Noesen can tip this” and just eventually fires a shot. I don’t think that’s on Burns. I really don’t see a “shoot first” guy with Burns on the PP so much as I see a “shoot because no one else is doing anything” guy.

Perhaps what we’re lacking is more fans in the stands who yell “SHOOT IT!!!” every time someone has the puck in the offensive zone.

 

[Chrispy]

Perhaps what we’re lacking is more fans in the stands who yell “SHOOT IT!!!” every time someone has the puck in the offensive zone.

Worked on Seidenberg.

 

[Canes]

My problem with the PP was that it looked so much better when they had Aho and Necas available for one timers yet they consistently ran it with them on their forehand side.

I will never understand our obsession with putting righties on the right half wall and lefties on the left half wall. It definitely takes away a one timer threat.

 

[Daeavorn]

So I think one issue we need go resolve is to get actual top 6 players for aho to play with.

I love Jarvis but if he remains a 40pt player we should probably take him off of Ahos line.

We definitely need to play Svech with Aho more next season and maybe Necas too.

Let the man have some talent to work with.

I dont expect Turbo to bounce back but I could be wrong.

 

[Svechhammer]

So I think one issue we need go resolve is to get actual top 6 players for aho to play with.

I love Jarvis but if he remains a 40pt player we should probably take him off of Ahos line.

We definitely need to play Svech with Aho more next season and maybe Necas too.

Let the man have some talent to work with.

I dont expect Turbo to bounce back but I could be wrong.

I personally think Jarvis can be a PPG player, but he needs to be far more stronger on his skates than he currently is. His biggest issue is that he gets blown off the puck too easily and it just kills his game.

 

[Daeavorn]

I personally think Jarvis can be a PPG player, but he needs to be far more stronger on his skates than he currently is. His biggest issue is that he gets blown off the puck too easily and it just kills his game.

If St Louis can manage it why not Seth?

 

[DaveG]

So I think one issue we need go resolve is to get actual top 6 players for aho to play with.

I love Jarvis but if he remains a 40pt player we should probably take him off of Ahos line.

We definitely need to play Svech with Aho more next season and maybe Necas too.

Let the man have some talent to work with.

I dont expect Turbo to bounce back but I could be wrong.

Eh, Jarvis is getting there but he's a work in progress. He was one of our best forwards this playoff run.

I have no disagreement with your overall point, just a disagreement regarding Jarvis's place as a top 6 guy. He already is one, just not a top level one yet.

We definitely need to get another one to play with him. Quite frankly with the cap flexibility we have this coming off-season we need to fill out our top 9 with top 6 caliber guys on the wings, especially if our center depth is going to be Aho-Koko-Staal-Drury. Even with the injury catastrophes we had this year we can't have First Line MartyParty happening as anything other than a wakeup call for some of our guys.

Something like:
Lindholm/Toffoli - Aho - Jarvis
Svechnikov - Kotkaniemi - Necas
Pacioretty - Staal - Teravainen
Martinook - Drury - Noesen
Rees

is deeper than what we were rolling even if we assume Patches and Svech were healthy.

 

[SvechneJerk]

Our powerplay is the most baffling thing in hockey. Every year, we run into the same thing, where 90% of our powerplays look like they're being performed by people who just laced up their first skates that morning. And then we'll have a stretch of games where it's suddenly the most deadly, efficient PP all season. Only to revert back to garbage 3-4 games later.

But because of those deadly, efficient games, our PP% doesn't reach historically bad numbers.

I don’t have experience in playing hockey like many here. My sport was basketball & I equate a good Powerplay like an efficient motion offense in basketball.

Teams with a great motion O move the ball around the umbrella looking for an opening, many times using skip/crosscourt passes to catch defenders off guard & getting them out of position, in order to create that weakness to exploit. In the paint, there’s always someone ready for a putback, if needed. Players on the strong side & weak side, both, are always moving, brushing off defenders to create space for themselves.

Someone that stands around dribbling the ball, with no real movement allows the defenders to dictate what is available to the offense, instead of the other way around.

I see our players the vast majority of the time just “dribbling the ball” around with no real definitive/decisive cross ice passing causing those needed defensive breakdowns. If the defense & their goalie aren’t having to move much & you don’t have a Pasta or Ovi that can put it wherever, whenever they want, you just aren’t going to be consistently good at the Powerplay.

When we’ve moved the puck quickly around & across the ice successfully, the results are obvious.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

[Svechhammer]

If St Louis can manage it why not Seth?

I mean from what I have heard I have absolutely no reason to doubt that Jarvis will be very strong on his skates soon, he just needs to go through another year or 2 of offseason workouts to strengthen up.

And low-key, I think KK is going to be a beast in a year or 2. His skating this year was a significant improvement over last year, and another offseason regiment with us and I think he'll really come into his own full time next year. I absolutely loved the frustration he showed this series, it shows he cares, and we need someone like that in the locker room. The way this year played out for him, I'm really glad we have him locked up for another 7 years at the price we do.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I will never understand our obsession with putting righties on the right half wall and lefties on the left half wall. It definitely takes away a one timer threat.

I thought you said you didn't understand it?

I don’t have experience in playing hockey like many here. My sport was basketball & I equate a good Powerplay like an efficient motion offense in basketball.

Teams with a great motion O move the ball around the umbrella looking for an opening, many times using skip/crosscourt passes to catch defenders off guard & getting them out of position, in order to create that weakness to exploit. In the paint, there’s always someone ready for a putback, if needed. Players on the strong side & weak side, both, are always moving, brushing off defenders to create space for themselves.

Someone that stands around dribbling the ball, with no real movement allows the defenders to dictate what is available to the offense, instead of the other way around.

I see our players the vast majority of the time just “dribbling the ball” around with no real definitive/decisive cross ice passing causing those needed defensive breakdowns. If the defense & their goalie aren’t having to move much & you don’t have a Pasta or Ovi that can put it wherever, whenever they want, you just aren’t going to be consistently good at the Powerplay.

When we’ve moved the puck quickly around & across the ice successfully, the results are obvious.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

You're hired!!

 

[LakeLivin]

Jarvis turned 21yo less than 4 months ago, lol. Kid is going to be a stud.

 

[Canes]

I thought you said you didn't understand it?


You're hired!!

Apparently I don't because someday it's going to work otherwise the people paid to figure this stuff out would try something different.