All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread pt 9

[AeroFishOne]

Listen IDGAF, Don Waddell is a national treasure

And Boo which ever jerkwad it was that said don’t incorporate the Williams signing in a surge.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

It was interesting to hear Waddell say 6%. 50.5 (h)(ii) puts the bonus cushion at 7.5% (~$6.11 mil). Perhaps they reserve 1.5% (~$1.22 mil) internally for callups.

 

[Lempo]

The Performance Bonuses for contracted players:

Carolina Hurricanes - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Only Svech, Necas, Gauthier, Kaski, Priskie and Bean have legit rolloverable Exhibit 5 Performance Bonuses though; the rest have Games Played bonuses, a different beast that won't roll over. And of these, guys other than Svech and Necas won't be qualifying for the "comparison" bonus categories that need 41 games played and also won't hit the stats needed for the raw bonus categories.

Svech has already unlocked his 20 Goals for $212.500 and projects to max out his full $850 in Schedule A bonuses with A, O, PpGP and top-6 ToI (forwards). He's also has an odd chance to be a league top 10 forward in G/A/P/PpGP, any of which would unlock his $1.8M Schedule B bonus. Currently he's 20th in G, 32nd in A, 22nd in P and 30th in PpGP.

Necas is barely off the pace to his any of his $537 in Schedule A, but he can pick up.

So there may be a lot of Performance Bonus to roll over to 2020-21 even without Williams.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

They're up to ~$3.19 mil in space at this point. Running a 22-man roster, you want to leave some space for a short-term injury callup. Let's put that number at $1 mil. That leaves ~$2.19 for Williams' base salary today. If there's an internal bonus cushion, it's ~$4.89 mil. Svechnikov, Necas and Foegele eat up ~$3.21. That leaves ~$1.68 mil for Williams at the 6% mark. ~2.19 mil base + ~1.68 mil bonuses = ~$3.87 mil. Are the likes of Toronto, Boston and Washington even going to offer that given where they in respect to the ceiling and the overage that result next season? Tampa's the only team mentioned so far that could absorb that or even more on this year's cap.

The issue, therefore, may be that the FO has an upgrade in mind elsewhere (D or G) and wants to preserve space for. The cap comes from Williams' base and can't be added back with performance bonuses because of the internal cushion.

Does that sound about right? @Lempo

 

[Lempo]

Does that sound about right? @Lempo

The Cap shenanigans are hard for the starters already, and the unearned but potential performance bonuses especially on some accounts count in full against the cap while not on other accounts.

I have no idea.

 

[AD Skinner]

During the pregame interview Waddell sounded completely confident Williams would be back soon

 

[Lempo]

Williams full contract isn't showing yet, but apparently his daily cap hit is $3,763. So, that times the days until the end of the regular season is what it projects to be. Apparently the cap hit will be $331,183 in full, the bonus obviously not included.

Justin Williams - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[spockBokk]

From an Athletic article by Custance about the likelihood of guys moving by the deadline:

13. Jake Gardiner, Carolina Hurricanes– What was applauded as a sensible free agent signing hasn’t worked out as envisioned in Carolina. Gardiner hasn’t been a great fit in the Carolina system, and the Hurricanes are willing to make a move here. “If you put him in a team that plays a more structured D, a more traditional style of play, he’ll be fine,” said one NHL source.

I’m still pretty skeptical they’d move Gardiner at a loss, but you never know.

 

[Joe McGrath]

From an Athletic article by Custance about the likelihood of guys moving by the deadline:

13. Jake Gardiner, Carolina Hurricanes– What was applauded as a sensible free agent signing hasn’t worked out as envisioned in Carolina. Gardiner hasn’t been a great fit in the Carolina system, and the Hurricanes are willing to make a move here. “If you put him in a team that plays a more structured D, a more traditional style of play, he’ll be fine,” said one NHL source.

I’m still pretty skeptical they’d move Gardiner at a loss, but you never know.

I wouldn’t be shocked. The way Bean has progressed I think he can take that role next year.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think the last couple of games (even TB where nobody looked good), Gardiner has looked better than he has in the past. He seems to be playing with more confidence now vs. sitting back. I'd like to see how he progresses the rest of the season. Given how it took Dougie half a season to get accustomed to a new team and system, I can see the same with Gardiner.

I don't get the "if you put him in a team that plays a more structured D, a more traditional style" comment though. That's NOT what Toronto played.

 

[bleedgreen]

From an Athletic article by Custance about the likelihood of guys moving by the deadline:

13. Jake Gardiner, Carolina Hurricanes– What was applauded as a sensible free agent signing hasn’t worked out as envisioned in Carolina. Gardiner hasn’t been a great fit in the Carolina system, and the Hurricanes are willing to make a move here. “If you put him in a team that plays a more structured D, a more traditional style of play, he’ll be fine,” said one NHL source.

I’m still pretty skeptical they’d move Gardiner at a loss, but you never know.

“It’s not you Jake.....it’s us.”

my actual problem here is the fact that we desperately need more structure in our end.

 

[spockBokk]

I think the last couple of games (even TB where nobody looked good), Gardiner has looked better than he has in the past. He seems to be playing with more confidence now vs. sitting back. I'd like to see how he progresses the rest of the season. Given how it took Dougie half a season to get accustomed to a new team and system, I can see the same with Gardiner.

I don't get the "if you put him in a team that plays a more structured D, a more traditional style" comment though. That's NOT what Toronto played.

Yep, this is why I don’t see him moved, unless they get offered something like Kapanen or the like for him, which is absurd. He is starting to play better and get more minutes and also starting to produce offensively since being played with Pesce mostly 5-5 the past few games. I want to see where that pairing goes over the next few weeks. And, if Gardiner somehow rounds back into form, having 30-40pt D signed for 3 more years at $4M seems ideal.

I wouldn’t be shocked. The way Bean has progressed I think he can take that role next year.

Maybe I’m in the minority, but I think Bean will be dealt by the deadline or this off-season. I guess that depends a lot on Gardiner and what he shows over the next few weeks. From what I’ve seen from Bean in the AHL, I don’t think he’ll be able to hack it defensively in the NHL. I’d prefer they cash-in on Bean now as part of an upgrade in net or elsewhere.

On the flip side, if first-half-of-the-season-Gardiner is the same as second-half-Gardiner, Bean is basically the same player for a whole
lot less $$$.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

my actually problem here is the fact that we desperately need more structure in our end.

Yeah, agree. I think we forget that the Canes D pairings and D structure wasn't great the first part of last year. It wasn't until Jan timeframe when Dougie was healthy (and got accustomed to his teammates and system) that they settled on the pairings of Slavin-Hamilton, Pesce-Faulk, CDH-TVR.

TVR missed most of this offseason training recovering from shoulder surgery and the team added Edmunson and Gardiner to the mix. Setting aside discussions on the quality of those guys vs. CDH/Faulk, when you add 2 new guys to the mix and have 1 guy recovering from surgery, it's going to be hard to hit the ground running.

Dougie and Slavin have been what we'd expect of them IMO. Slavin is rock solid, Dougie is decent defensively with gaffs from time to time. Pesce hasn't been his "rock solid" self, but how much of that is having to deal with multiple partners who aren't as solid and/or new?

Like last year, they need to find some stability in the pairings and some better play, particularly from their 2nd and 3rd pairing. It probably won't be as good as last year's D, but they have more skill upfront (IMO) to compensate some for that.

 

[bleedgreen]

Yeah, agree. I think we forget that the Canes D pairings and D structure wasn't great the first part of last year. It wasn't until Jan timeframe when Dougie was healthy (and got accustomed to his teammates and system) that they settled on the pairings of Slavin-Hamilton, Pesce-Faulk, CDH-TVR.

TVR missed most of this offseason training recovering from shoulder surgery and the team added Edmunson and Gardiner to the mix. Setting aside discussions on the quality of those guys vs. CDH/Faulk, when you add 2 new guys to the mix and have 1 guy recovering from surgery, it's going to be hard to hit the ground running.

Dougie and Slavin have been what we'd expect of them IMO. Slavin is rock solid, Dougie is decent defensively with gaffs from time to time. Pesce hasn't been his "rock solid" self, but how much of that is having to deal with multiple partners who aren't as solid and/or new?

Like last year, they need to find some stability in the pairings and some better play, particularly from their 2nd and 3rd pairing. It probably won't be as good as last year's D, but they have more skill upfront (IMO) to compensate some for that.

I’m going to be in the minority here but I would be actually searching for a partner to put with Dougie. I think Slavin has plateaued a bit during these last two seasons. I don’t mean regressed, just stopping the progression a bit. I think he’s so busy covering Dougie he has sacrificed a little growth himself. I’ve never liked the pairing and even now they’re scrambly as all get out, just like the rest of the team. I’ve always felt this was an analytics pairing, and we already know we have a great pairing with Slavin and Pesce. They’re good enough to play this style and give themselves some structure.

Either way, we need a lefty top four dman. It doesn’t matter which righty he plays with. Rod is loathe to break them up so I’m just talking at clouds, I know.

 

[spockBokk]

Realistically, I wonder what a guy like Martinez from LA costs? If it’s in anyway similar to the cost of Muzzin last year, no thanks, but he’d look pretty good next to Pesce I think...

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I think that in the end, Canes stand pat outside maybe an Eddy or TVR trade. I see Gardiner having a strong 2nd half and being the answer to the defensive structure.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I’m going to be in the minority here but I would be actually searching for a partner to put with Dougie. I think Slavin has plateaued a bit during these last two seasons. I don’t mean regressed, just stopping the progression a bit. I think he’s so busy covering Dougie he has sacrificed a little growth himself. I’ve never liked the pairing and even now they’re scrambly as all get out, just like the rest of the team. I’ve always felt this was an analytics pairing, and we already know we have a great pairing with Slavin and Pesce. They’re good enough to play this style and give themselves some structure.

I flip flop on that. Slavin-Pesce are clearly a top notch, shut down pairing, who are great together, but I think finding a partner that allows the Canes to maximize what they get out of Dougie will be difficult at best. Slavin is perfect for that, even if it means we are getting a little less out of Slavin. I just don't know that if we get more from Slavin by putting Pesce with him, does it make up for what we lose in Dougie, either because he now has to be more conservative without Slavin and/or he now bleeds goals without Slavin.

Watching Slavin live is such a treat. I've rarely seen a player that makes the right read and right play almost 100% of the time. You don't get to see a lot of it on TV because much of it is away from the puck. He's probable the best partner you could find for Dougie.

Either way, we need a lefty top four dman. It doesn’t matter which righty he plays with. Rod is loathe to break them up so I’m just talking at clouds, I know.

With how Pesce played on the left side last year, either a RHD or LHD will work. Hopefully Gardiner starts to play better as he has the last couple of games because on paper, it seems like Gardiner-Pesce would be a good pairing.

 

[MinJaBen]

Maybe I’m in the minority, but I think Bean will be dealt by the deadline or this off-season.

 

[GoldiFox]

I like the idea of moving out TVR or Edmundson and bringing in an upgrade for the 2nd pair if the price is right. Maybe a guy like Sami Vatanen

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I'm telling you guys...

Slavin - Pesce
Gardiner - Dougie

Let the madness ensue!!!

But to be real, I am definitely fine with trading out Edmunson/TVR. Fleury has earned a spot on this team and has probably outplayed both of those guys. I don't know if Bean is the right guy to bring up but next year I'm fine with a bottom pairing of Fleury and someone who doesn't cost $3 million.

 

[The Stranger]

Did Chynoweth put Slavin and Pesce back together a few games ago when they played the Caps to match up against Ovi? I think this was the case...but not 100% sure.

The team/coaching staff need to establish a D pairing they can use to match up against the top lines...last year we saw that the Slavin-Hamilton pairing was not great in that role.

WRT the 18-19 and 19-20 D-men and G stats listed on the previous page...it's important to remember that high danger chances stuff only accounts for shot location...it doesn't account for critical things like puck movement prior to the shot or D coverage (is the player alone in front of the net or is a D-man covering/checking him). Hopefully with player and puck tracking data these metrics will continue to improve.

In the absence of data, I would says we've seen an increase in truly high danger scoring chances this year relative to last...totally subjective.

I'm pulling for Gardiner to settle in and lock down the 2nd pairing with Pesce...he's got some work to do though.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Did Chynoweth put Slavin and Pesce back together a few games ago when they played the Caps to match up against Ovi? I think this was the case...but not 100% sure.

Pretty sure it was only late in the 3rd.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I would really look into getting Oleksiak from Dallas to bolster the third pairing for the two years before Svech and Dougie are up for extensions. Dallas will almost certainly be in the market for a RHD this summer with the insanely deep crop of them next year, and swapping Oleksiak and Edmundson (or TVR, alternatively) would help them free some cap space next year for a big UFA addition, as Eddy/TVR are pending UFAs and Oleksiak has one year left at ~$2.5M. It would also have the benefit of easing Jake Bean into the lineup next year via call-ups rather than throwing him into the third pairing full-time.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Waddell said in the Williams presser that if need be, they could take on a $5-$6M contract at the deadline, but they don't want to carry bonuses over to next year if they don't have to.

 

[hblueridgegal]

This echoed what TD said on The Morning Skate today - said we will likely never be an exciting trade deadline team - more of fringe player for a good deal because he's not willing to borrow from the future.