All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread pt 6 - let the waiting game commence

[Lempo]

... I only just got that Andrei3000 username.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Obviously, if we offered Pesce, Svech, or Necas around, we could acquire that high end talent, but that'd be one step forward and two steps back.

AARRRGGHH. Depending on what we got back, right?

 

[spockBokk]

Id expect trade is where we are to make us better:
Forwards possibly available:
Kapanen, Johnsson, Nylander (maybe)
Labanc
Haula, Eakin, Karlsson (maybe)
Miller, Palat, Gourde(maybe)
Turris
Ehlers
Hoffman (if FLA wants Panarin)
Etc

Goalies available:
Subban
Allen
Quick (maybe)

Give me a trade of picks and prospects for a guy like Zucker or preferably Kapanen and then a larger trade of 1 of the RD for Ehlers or Faulk for a TBL cap casualty, and I’m good.

I’m not too concerned about the goalie situation yet.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Give me a trade of picks and prospects for a guy like Zucker or preferably Kapanen and then a larger trade of 1 of the RD for Ehlers or Faulk for a TBL cap casualty, and I’m good.

I’m not too concerned about the goalie situation yet.

Yep or go totally crazy.
Get Haula, Miller, Subban for little because we take on Clarkson
Either get Ehlers for an extended Faulk or
Get Labanc for futures and trade Faulk for futures.
Now we need one starting goalie.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Not sure I see the appeal work Subban

 

[GoldiFox]

Not sure I see the appeal work Subban

Like adding an extra Nedeljkovic to compete with Ned. Superfluous.

1) Haula + Eakin + Clarkson for CAR 2nd
2) Talbot 1 year x $1.5 million

Offseason done

Niederreiter - Aho - TT
Eakin - Staal - Svechnikov
Wallmark - Haula - Necas
Foegele - Bishop - Martinook

Slavin - Hamilton
Pesce - Faulk
De Haan - TVR

Talbot
Nedeljkovic

Probably sitting near the Cap floor (salary wise at least) even with Aho getting paid.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

They were running some commercial for some sports show on NHL Network radio, and the random clip they played was the host saying Bad organizations dole out big contracts to players coming off career years. The best franchises (Patriots being prime example) walk away. And I thought that was pretty spot on in the cap world.

Unless you've got the core locked up for a long time, and you're overpaying a bit for a guy who's going to put you over the edge...don't give out bad contracts. It continually haunts these teams that are forced to deal young guys who'd be on good contracts because they can't afford them because of old guys on bad contracts.

I like Mrazek, but I'd easily let him walk before giving him a questionable deal.

You pay your core guys what they want, then let the periphery players demanding market value walk 9 times out of 10 when you need to shed salary. Overpay Erik Karlsson and dump Justin Braun every single time. Kapanen would be nice, but if it's an option go for Marner, draft picks and budget be damned. Fortune favors the bold.

RE: Mrazek, I'm more concerned with letting Mike Bales walk. In Pittsburgh, he made Murray look great, he leaves, suddenly Murray looks like a sieve. Mrazek could only get a 1 year, 1.5 mil contract: after 5 months with Bales he suddenly looks like starter material again. I'm all on board with the braintrust lowballing executives because it's clear the threshold for near full agency over your success is low (ie everyone is okay unless you're really terrible, like Dale Tallon forgetting to qualify Versteeg and someone else). If you find a coach who works within your system, you keep them. I hope they realize Brind'Amour making money equivalent to an NHL assistant is not sustainable if we're a persistent playoff team, as I presume is the plan.

It wouldn't surprise me if waiting on Aho, Mrazek, Williams, etc is to see if we can jar any juicy pieces from desperate teams at the draft, then work from there.

Anyway, it looks us and the Blue Jackets are the only 2019 playoff teams that will need a goalie. Flames would have him split with Rytich, and for that matter the BJ's have Korpisalo as the incoming #1 once Bobrovsky leaves. So letting him test the market isn't the worst thing in the world.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Or maybe we're planning to offer Duchene some dumb contract, and that's why none of our guys are signed yet. /halfjoking

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Just as a reminder, the team won at a ~98 point pace with Ward as the starter in 17-18. There is serious defensive talent in front of the goalies here. Don't be bad (Darling) and the team should be competitive.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

No trades yet? WTF is wrong with this front office.

 

[Joe McGrath]

No trades yet? WTF is wrong with this front office.

f***ing clowns

 

[bleedgreen]

Bored bored bored bored bored.


Shit....forgot I was at work.

 

[Roboturner913]

Something that has not been mentioned is the team in front of the goalie was better this season than it had been. Darling is a disaster and a lost cause IMO, but if you had put Cam Ward of two years ago in goal with this year's team, I think he would've been roughly the equal of Mrazek or Mac. We're talking about replacing a .912 goalie and a .914 goalie here, in a league where 39 goalies posted a .911 or higher last year. These guys aren't exactly indispensible.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Bored bored bored bored bored.


****....forgot I was at work.

Work is overrated

 

[MinJaBen]

If Lehner doesn’t sign before Sunday, I hope we reach out to talk with him. He is who I wanted last summer and he seemed to have a very nice long talk with Rod in the handshake line...

 

[Joe McGrath]

Two things can be true.

Mrazek should want as much as he can possibly get. That’s why he signed a 1 year $1 million contract. Betting on himself. To not cash in on that sizeably would be idiotic on his part.

At the same time the Canes can not want to pay that knowing he was 1 year away from being a washout in the league before the Canes awesome defense turned him into a good goalie again.

Neither is wrong. They either meet in the middle or he walks. That’s how this shit works. Neither side is a villain, it’s just smart business.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Are you saying it would've been a mistake to pay Ferland on an expensive long-term contract based on half a season of good play???

It's a mistake to pay *anyone* more than they can reasonably be expected to produce in value to the company.

I don't think there's any preferred timeframe in terms of previous effectiveness or any preferred length of contract. In other words, it would have been completely fine to pay Ferland an "expensive long-term contract" -- even based on half a season of good play -- if there was an expectation he would keep up that good play, or even improve on it, for the duration of the contract. I believe the brain trust made the decision that there was no such expectation in Ferland's case to justify the commitment. Whether they were right or not is still to be determined, even if early returns strongly suggest it would have been a mistake.

The same appears to be true currently in the case of Petr Mrazek. Obviously, there is a disconnect between what the Canes believe Mrazek showed this season -- likely that he's a solid 1A capable of starting 40-45 games, but requiring an NHL-level backup, and not a true No. 1 horse to be depended on into his early 30s -- and what Mrazek believes he showed -- that he can be a top 15 goalie in the league for the next five seasons.

These guys are obviously all about expected value, and I'm 100 percent on board.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Something that has not been mentioned is the team in front of the goalie was better this season than it had been. Darling is a disaster and a lost cause IMO, but if you had put Cam Ward of two years ago in goal with this year's team, I think he would've been roughly the equal of Mrazek or Mac. We're talking about replacing a .912 goalie and a .914 goalie here, in a league where 39 goalies posted a .911 or higher last year. These guys aren't exactly indispensible.

If you want to believe this, that's fine. But I watched Cam Ward a lot this season and he's not even a full step up from having Darling back there, and now he may be out of the league forever. He posted an .897, 3.67 stat line. The last time Cam was better than NHL average was 2011-12, *eight* seasons ago. Pretending that we can put a cardboard cutout in goal and still win because of our defense is just plain wrong. Mrazek and MacElhinney were very good this season. Let's not lose sight of that just because we're having trouble signing them.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

AARRRGGHH. Depending on what we got back, right?

I can't see any team offering something (within the realm of possibility) that wouldn't seem like a step back if we traded them.

Obviously, if it's like Laine for Necas, sure, that's a step forward. But that's not a reasonable expectation in my mind.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I can't see any team offering something (within the realm of possibility) that wouldn't seem like a step back if we traded them.

So, if you just heard that the Canes traded Hanifin and Lindholm, obviously that was several steps back, right?

Look, I'm not trying to be an a$$. I'm just trying to get us past the feeling that if the players change, that must mean we're not as good.

 

[Chrispy]

If you want to believe this, that's fine. But I watched Cam Ward a lot this season and he's not even a full step up from having Darling back there, and now he may be out of the league forever. He posted an .897, 3.67 stat line. The last time Cam was better than NHL average was 2011-12, *eight* seasons ago. Pretending that we can put a cardboard cutout in goal and still win because of our defense is just plain wrong. Mrazek and MacElhinney were very good this season. Let's not lose sight of that just because we're having trouble signing them.

So did Ward lose that much between 17-18 and 18-19, or is the defense good enough to make Ward, Mrazek, and McElhinney look decent to above average?

It's an interesting theory. Not sure I want to risk next season on another "not-Darling" goaltending strategy, but it's interesting.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Sounds so easy when you put it like that. Except you know the reality of the situation is that it's anything but.

Yeah teams add high end talent via free agency successfully every year. Did any of the conference finalists add a big name free agent last year?

Or were the biggest acquisitions of those teams via trade? (ROR, EK, Hamilton)

 

[Drivebytrucker]

Yeah teams add high end talent via free agency successfully every year. Did any of the conference finalists add a big name free agent last year?

Or were the biggest acquisitions of those teams via trade? (ROR, EK, Hamilton)

I would argue that overpaying big name Free Agents on July 1st is quite possibly the worst way to build a team and very rarely ever works

 

[Canes]

I would argue that overpaying big name Free Agents on July 1st is quite possibly the worst way to build a team and very rarely ever works

And even when it works out, it can still put you in a bind. See: Tavares putting up a career year with the Maple Laughs but now they're going to have trouble keeping their forward group together.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

And even when it works out, it can still put you in a bind. See: Tavares putting up a career year with the Maple Laughs but now they're going to have trouble keeping their forward group together.

TBF, the Leafs issues are more about the prior management handing out absurd cash to the likes of Zaitsev and Marleau rather than anything that they did with Tavares.