All purpose trade/roster building thread part 12

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nikishin Go Boom

Russian Bulldozer Consultent
Jul 31, 2017
23,708
55,334
Because we won't pay, especially at this moment with all COVID situation, for him? You know, we have to sign Hamilton and Svech. Hall is not someone I'd lock for next 6-8 years... not worthy.
Except Laine will be more expensive and right at the same time. Hall is affordable in the cap, dumping Nino dependent.

in the end, i fully expect them to go with value instead of need. We’ll be stuck trying to trade them like we are Dzingel. Spinning our wheels trying to find the diamond in rough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Boom Boom Apathy

Vagrant

The Czech Condor
Feb 27, 2002
23,660
8,274
North Carolina
Visit site
as gifted as laine is, and as impressive as he looks when you only watch his highlights, he has a bit of the alexander semin disease where he realizes his shot is so overwhelming that he's trying to pick corners with it from all over the ice. i think an underrated element of pure shooting goal scorers is the ability to not miss so badly that you break the other team out of the zone. semin was the worst in the world for trying to pick the short side corner and the puck careening off the glass at high speeds and clearing the zone, sometimes creating breakouts for the opposition and losing important zone possession on a low percentage chance. he's a hell of a player, no doubt, but he's going to have to learn how to play winning hockey. having aho and turbo here who both play very responsible styles would give us a leg up with that, but that's banking a lot on your leadership being able to sell a player on a system they haven't seen work.

when i compare a guy like laine to matthews for example as a goal scorer, putting leaf bias aside, matthews has so many ways to score. i have seen him flatten his blade by turning his wrist over and sort of shoveling a puck towards the net on redirections. scoring goals with his feet in the paint. aggressively hovering around the net for something to pop loose when shots are coming from elsewhere instead of circling off like you see a lot of players do. matthews, to his credit, has taken some notes from john tavares' approach around the net because that's a guy that has made a living being ready for the bounce. laine wants to score one kind of goal. he wants to rip it through the goalie and his commitment to doing those things listed above make him a less attractive option. plus, his size is of virtually no benefit to him. that wouldn't sit well with brind'amour.
 

Lempo

Recovering Future Considerations Truther
Feb 23, 2014
27,712
86,649
Patrik Laine would be to expensive in the long term wouldn't he?
He was willing to bet on himself with a 2 x $6.75M contract. He is probably expecting his gamble to pay. The scoring he brings is a premium.

But at the same time, he's a Finn boy from a high taxation country and as such can't really comprehend large sums, so Aho/Teravainen type of reasonability is probably going to factor in. I don't know if he wants that many Lamborghinis.

Somehow I'd think he doesn't want to cripple his team with Matthews salary, and he may want to one-up Matthews in that fashion.

Winnipeg's head would burst if they traded Laine away, and he immediately signed a long-term cheapish contract with the new team. But, I don't know if signing long-term with Covid-era cap salaries is a winning move for a player anyway.
 

BB88

Registered User
Jan 19, 2015
41,463
21,848
Patrik Laine would be to expensive in the long term wouldn't he?

If we are looking at pure contracts and not what it would take to land them Laine around 10M for 8 years would be really good in the end.

Laine is 22y, 23y when the contract kicks in, so you buy one of the top goal scorers prime years at 10M.

Skinner already got 9M last summer and he’s inferior to Laine and carries weigh more risk, the top UFA Panarin got 11.5M last summer.

In 3-4 years time Laine scoring 40 in his early/mid prime making 10 will look nice
 

Vagrant

The Czech Condor
Feb 27, 2002
23,660
8,274
North Carolina
Visit site
laine would certainly address a need we have, but i think if it meant losing one of aho, turbo, or svechnikov you'd have to think really hard about your strategy. necas is quickly ascending to that tier. i don't think you can pay more than two guys franchise money and still be a winning club. getting slavin on his number was just luck we deserved. svechnikov might be an easy-going kid, but his agent isn't. bidding probably starts at $8 million even during this covid nonsense if you want any kind of term. we're a team that has to think about that now.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
49,309
101,986
The issue I see with acquiring Laine is the cost. Not only the cost to acquire him, but the cost of paying him to stay. The goal of a trade isn't to extract the most value on paper, it's to improve the team, both now and in the future. If the cost is low enough, then Laine should definitely improve the team, but if the cost gets too high, would the improvement he brings offset the degrade in what we'd lose to acquire him, both short and long term. If we have to pay Laine $9M+ to keep him, that is probably a nail in the coffin for keeping Dougie and might make it very difficult to solve our goaltender situation short and long term as well (particularly if we miss out on Askarov (sp?) if we have to include 13OA as well.

Secondly, while he is an elite goal scorer, there have been questions about his play away from the puck. How would that go over with Rod? Would he feel comfortable putting him on a line with Aho and TT if he's not sold on his play away from the puck?

He's an elite goal scorer and the Canes could use him and I'd certainly love to have him on the team, I just struggle to see a scenario where the Canes could acquire him and make it all work.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

Russian Bulldozer Consultent
Jul 31, 2017
23,708
55,334
I would bet we go 2 smaller value adds on the forward group instead of 1 big one (to my ire). A course we have to find a home for Nino and Dzingel.

Top 6 W:
Palmeiri, Palat or Killorn

Top 9 W:
Virtanen or Duclair

SAT
Killorn-Tro-Necas
Duclair-Staal-McGinn or Foe-Staal-Virtanen
Foegele/McGinn-Geekie-Marty
 

Discipline Daddy

Brentcent Van Burns
Sponsor
Nov 27, 2009
2,807
7,703
Raleigh, NC
Speaking of Killorn, I wonder if we could make a deal with TBL to take on a bit of their cap but for a better player. Dzingel McCringleberry is only paid $3.375M next year, and that is a lot less than Gourde, Palat, Killorn, or Tyler Johnson. I'd be interested in Alex Killorn for sure. I'd love to deal Nino, but Nino has no value.
 
Jul 18, 2010
26,695
57,447
Atlanta, GA
Whoever we trade Nino for will have one more year of term than Nino does, and have one good season for us and then fall off a cliff. It's the curse of Victor Rask. We can either continue the trade chain perpetually to always have one good year of someone, or just wait out the contract.

I'm guessing Patric Hornqvist is next, and fits the bill perfectly.
 

GIN ANTONIC

Registered User
Aug 19, 2007
19,221
15,544
Toronto, ON
Whoever we trade Nino for will have one more year of term than Nino does, and have one good season for us and then fall off a cliff. It's the curse of Victor Rask. We can either continue the trade chain perpetually to always have one good year of someone, or just wait out the contract.

I'm guessing Patric Hornqvist is next, and fits the bill perfectly.

Ive been on the Nino for Hornqvist train for a while, in fact I might have even drummed that one up.

I agree with you that there is a chance that Hornqvist falls off after a year or two in terms of production but I still think he brings enough other things to the table away from the puck that he’d still be a valuable player for our team.
 

AD Skinner

Registered User
Mar 18, 2009
13,270
40,841
bubble bath
Would anyone be interested in pursuing Wayne Simmonds? He's a ufa and has been trending downward but is still good for 30ish points every year... may be inexpensive and bounce back. A righty too
 

BB88

Registered User
Jan 19, 2015
41,463
21,848
laine would certainly address a need we have, but i think if it meant losing one of aho, turbo, or svechnikov you'd have to think really hard about your strategy. necas is quickly ascending to that tier. i don't think you can pay more than two guys franchise money and still be a winning club. getting slavin on his number was just luck we deserved. svechnikov might be an easy-going kid, but his agent isn't. bidding probably starts at $8 million even during this covid nonsense if you want any kind of term. we're a team that has to think about that now.

You are paying franchise money to zero players.
Aho gets less than Skinner and is the teams top paid player.

Franchise money today is 10M+
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helsinki Hurricanes

MinJaBen

Canes Sharks Boy
Sponsor
Dec 14, 2015
21,373
82,949
Durm
I think I'd rather swap Nino with JVR than Hornqvist. I think Hornqvist's decline will be much more rapid, plus JVR is a better skater which works well with our coaches style.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Daeavorn

A Star is Burns

Formerly Azor Aho
Sponsor
Dec 6, 2011
12,867
41,745
I would keep Nino over trading him for Hornqvist, but I see the appeal in Hornqvist. I just agree with the premise that he'll likely fall off and not be qualified to give us the thing we are bringing him in for. Trading for 33 year olds that play that style and have an extra year left and hoping they don't flame out seems like a much worse idea than just hoping a 27 year old had a bad year and will bounce back.

If we can't find a young, relatively healthy power forward, add another skilled player to the top 6 and more grit to the bottom 6 seems like the best idea to me if possible.
 

MinJaBen

Canes Sharks Boy
Sponsor
Dec 14, 2015
21,373
82,949
Durm
Would anyone be interested in pursuing Wayne Simmonds? He's a ufa and has been trending downward but is still good for 30ish points every year... may be inexpensive and bounce back. A righty too

I actually think we need a lefty to switch with Svech more than we need a righty at this point. TT, while a lefty, has almost exclusively played on the right. Best not to upset the apple cart by trying to move him over.

he looks pretty ded

And this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad