All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread

[RGY]

I didn't see why Krieder got benched tonight but enough is enough. If you're gonna punish him for every little thing or not play him send him back down. The kid needs to play. Schoenfield said he was tentative in the AHL because he was thinking defensive responsibilities. I can only imagine what he's thinking about now since every little thing he does wrong is ridiculed by Torts.

I'm a kreider supporter but he made not one but two piss poor plays on the 3rd goal. In the neutral zone he didnt use his 6'3" size to shield off the player and get the puck deep when a line change was needed. Then he made a weak blind pass in his own end. Led to the goal. He deserved his benching as did Mashinter.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Recycled isn't always bad. See NY Football Giants. New England Patriots. In hockey: LA Kings. Boston Bruins. Chicago Blackhawks.

Its not always bad.

But I'd really prefer some fresh, hungry, competent, great hockey mind coming in.

I want Jeff Gorton fully at the helm as GM. I want to see what kind of staff he'd put together.

With Gorton and Clark at the head of the table, I'd have full confidence in this organization's future.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

I don't like to question other coaches' systems.

But after tonight. Looking back at this losing streak of pathetic hockey...

This is not the same roster as last year. The identity is gone. Its on the coach to figure out what works with the players he has. Tortorella has not been able to do that. He does not know how to properly utilize this roster.

Looking at the roster, there is NO excuse for such poor results.

Elite goaltending.
Elite defense corp.
Nash, Richards, Gaborik
And a solid supporting cast.

What is the issue??? Why can't this coaching staff get more from these players?

Still want Gaborik and Richards gone. But that's another discussion entirely.

What's the solution???

 

[Callagraves]

I don't think the problem is the system, honestly. The system is what brought us success last year.

The problem here is only half the players know the system well enough to play it. We're not playing the same style we were last year, or at least, not efficiently.

 

[Tawnos]

I don't think the problem is the system, honestly. The system is what brought us success last year.

The problem here is only half the players know the system well enough to play it. We're not playing the same style we were last year, or at least, not efficiently.

The system brought us success last year because it was perfectly suited to the makeup of the roster last year. The reason we can't play the same style as efficiently this year is because the makeup of our roster has changed dramatically.

 

[trilobyte]

Just play hockey.
A system is not a bad thing, but play hockey.

Notice how the team was at their best during the last part of the third period when they desperately (and sincerely) wanted to win it for their fans watching them.
That is not an oddity, it is not a coincidence. You just have to go out and play hockey.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I have no clue why people buy into this guy being coach because he was good years ago with TB

 

[jniklast]

What I really don't like about Torts is the lack of any offensive system beyond dump and chase. I can understand most of his personal decisions (ok maybe not Bickel over Eminger, but else) including benching Kreider (who simply needs to be better) as Torts apparently wants him in the AHL anyway. I also think he has really helped our defensemen becoming as good as they are. A guy like Girardi really is flourishing under him.

But the offense is just an abdomination. It really hurts watching other team's third or fourth lines making tape to tape passes and gaining the offensive zone with ease, while even our best lines can only dump and chase. Grinding alone simply isn't enough with the personnel we have. Other teams can gain the zone with a passing game and there is no reason why we couldn't. There really needs a change of that aspect, which includes the PP. Be it a new assistant coach or if it has to be a new head coach. Otherwise this team will go nowhere. Last year was as far as that offensive system can go and probably further than it should've gone.

 

[Blueshirt Special]

Not ready to give up on Torts or this team.

Even if we barely make the playoffs and exit early.

Maybe even if we fail to make the playoffs.

I think this is a "reset" season, and it is short as well. Torts doesn't look lost to me, even though the team does.

I say this comes around eventually, although it may happen too late in this season.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I have no clue why people buy into this guy being coach because he was good years ago with TB

He led the Rangers to their best finish in close to 20 years. Now people want him gone after 18 games, big roster turnover, no camp, and a screwed up shortened season. Who is being unreasonable?

 

[Bluenote13]

He led the Rangers to their best finish in close to 20 years. Now people want him gone after 18 games, big roster turnover, no camp, and a screwed up shortened season. Who is being unreasonable?

You keep saying that, but its no big deal to me. He got bout 4 more wins in regular season and then a few more wins in playoffs(barely) then Tom Renney. It's not like last year was a thrill a minute. Vezina winner plus depth Renney never had, not a huge difference.

That being said I still think there is no reason to fire him during the season, especially with no replacement in sight. The GM is the one who put this team together.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

You keep saying that, but its no big deal to me. He got bout 4 more wins in regular season and then a few more wins in playoffs(barely) then Tom Renney. It's not like last year was a thrill a minute. Vezina winner plus depth Renney never had, not a huge difference.

That being said I still think there is no reason to fire him during the season, especially with no replacement in sight. The GM is the one who put this team together.

I keep saying it because it is a fact. That was the Rangers deepest playoff run since '94. I didnt want Renney gone either.

I think this board has a pervasive attitude where they cant admit the players simply arent playing well (especially younger ones) and the blame falls squarely on the coaching staff. Their best player is also injured, which hasnt helped - but thats Tortorella's fault too.

 

[Tawnos]

I think last season needs to be looked at in proper context. There were tons of problems with this team even going into the playoffs.

The Rangers had a bunch of 4 and 5 game win streaks early in the year. The last one ended on February 14. At that point, they were 37-13-5. In the remaining 27 games, one third of the season, the team basically played .500 hockey. 14-11-2. In the playoffs, they played .500 hockey. 10-10. This season, they've played .500 hockey. 8-8-2.

As far as I can tell, they've been on a 65 game slump after being on a 46 game hot streak last season. At some point, you definitely start wondering if the coach is even capable of getting the ship even close to where it was when they were hot. There are all sorts of factors going on this year. I'm not going to deny that the group has had challenges with injuries and with turnover. The difference is that I feel like last year's team, at least early on, would have responded positively to the adversity. That Tortorella would've been able to use the challenges to help the team gel. I don't get that feeling with this group.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I keep saying it because it is a fact. That was the Rangers deepest playoff run since '94. I didnt want Renney gone either.

I think this board has a pervasive attitude where they cant admit the players simply arent playing well (especially younger ones) and the blame falls squarely on the coaching staff. Their best player is also injured, which hasnt helped - but thats Tortorella's fault too.

The coach is supposed to do whats best for his players skill ability.. we havent been showing much of anything the coach has to take some blame for that. They don't seem like they r motivated to play right now, again the coach has to also take some responsibility for that. Then the young kids or the benching of your top scorer for a whole period when he makes a bad penalty. .this is not how to get the best out of your players. He also has an ego problem where his way only works, except clearly it don't

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The coach is supposed to do whats best for his players skill ability.. we havent been showing much of anything the coach has to take some blame for that. They don't seem like they r motivated to play right now, again the coach has to also take some responsibility for that. Then the young kids or the benching of your top scorer for a whole period when he makes a bad penalty. .this is not how to get the best out of your players. He also has an ego problem where his way only works, except clearly it don't

So what are you implying exactly? That he caters to someone like Chris Kreider? Like he knows better?

Every single player has a different skill set. A uniformed message to play hard and be defensively responsible is hardly asking too much.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

He was a fantastic coach as early as last year. Jack Adams finalist, I believe.

And he should give that award to Lundqvist. Hes the only reason we went as far as we did last year. We're seeing this year how bad this system is when Hank is not standing on his head game after game. They lose

 

[Bardof425*]

I don't think the problem is the system, honestly. The system is what brought us success last year.

The problem here is only half the players know the system well enough to play it. We're not playing the same style we were last year, or at least, not efficiently.

The "system" brought us success to a point. But we died, almost literally, in the playoffs. We have Rick Nash now. Torts needs to allow for some mistakes in the interest of increasing our scoring chances. If he doesn't we will lose alot.

 

[Bardof425*]

The coach is supposed to do whats best for his players skill ability.. we havent been showing much of anything the coach has to take some blame for that. They don't seem like they r motivated to play right now, again the coach has to also take some responsibility for that. Then the young kids or the benching of your top scorer for a whole period when he makes a bad penalty. .this is not how to get the best out of your players. He also has an ego problem where his way only works, except clearly it don't

Torts doesn't appear to know how to adjust to his personnel. It appears he is trying to jam (no pun intended) his system into the players without regard for their talents. This is like a hitting coach who tries to make everyone swing the bat the same way no matter how each player like to approach hitting. That is a recipe for disaster. He needs to adjust and soon or we will not make the playoffs. And with this roster, he will deserve to be fired.

 

[Bluenote13]

I keep saying it because it is a fact. That was the Rangers deepest playoff run since '94. I didnt want Renney gone either.

I think this board has a pervasive attitude where they cant admit the players simply arent playing well (especially younger ones) and the blame falls squarely on the coaching staff. Their best player is also injured, which hasnt helped - but thats Tortorella's fault too.

I agree, its not all on him. But the part that is, just doesn't look very good.

Then again we've always said this is a guy who doesn't adapt. Renney was blasted for not being a great in game coach.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I agree, its not all on him. But the part that is, just doesn't look very good.

Then again we've always said this is a guy who doesn't adapt. Renney was blasted for not being a great in game coach.

It doesn't matter who the coach is. The knocks are consistently the same: stifling creativity, playing not to lose rather than play to win. And other vague complaints.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I think last season needs to be looked at in proper context. There were tons of problems with this team even going into the playoffs.

The Rangers had a bunch of 4 and 5 game win streaks early in the year. The last one ended on February 14. At that point, they were 37-13-5. In the remaining 27 games, one third of the season, the team basically played .500 hockey. 14-11-2. In the playoffs, they played .500 hockey. 10-10. This season, they've played .500 hockey. 8-8-2.

As far as I can tell, they've been on a 65 game slump after being on a 46 game hot streak last season. At some point, you definitely start wondering if the coach is even capable of getting the ship even close to where it was when they were hot. There are all sorts of factors going on this year. I'm not going to deny that the group has had challenges with injuries and with turnover. The difference is that I feel like last year's team, at least early on, would have responded positively to the adversity. That Tortorella would've been able to use the challenges to help the team gel. I don't get that feeling with this group.

Now this is the million dollar question. How do we allocate responsibility (blame is really the wrong word), and how do the Rangers fix it?

Seems to me, there should be a lot of finger pointing going around.
-certain vets (ahem, Richards, and probably a few others) obviously didn't do the offseason training they were supposed to and are still out of shape
-some guys took the positive press clippings to heart and forgot the amount of hard work it took to get those accolades
-the team personnel and identity changed but the system didn't bend to accommodate it
-a certain 'gotta win now' GM decided to go though his roster with a sandblaster instead of a scalpel irregardless of any chemistry or identity changes and the after effects
-certain young guys who played well under no expectations (Krieder) are suddenly caught like a deer in the headlights when there are real expectations

Looks like there's enough blame to go around to nearly everyone in the organization.

Now, how do the Rangers fix it? With no real coaching candidates out there, can we honestly expect a coaching change to fix this room?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You can try to twist and turn stats any way you like, but fact is we are having several issues:

- Dumping the puck every single time, no creativity allowed, it seems
- Gaborik and Richards don't work well together, Torts insists on playing them on the same line though
- Lundqvist is off his game. It happens, but this, together with our inability to score is costing us dearly
- Talented players are being played together with goons and grinders. How are Miller and Kreider ever going to develop when they play with Asham, Mashinter, Boyle, Bickel or Powe?


Yes, we've had some injuries, but we have lost matches when we were playing full-strength as well. Lame excuse. Ottawa just brings some youngsters and decide to give it a go. What does Torts do? Play Thomas for 1 game, send him back, Ferriero 3 games and down he goes, McIlrath, Jean, Ferriero and Yogan will not bring us the Cup but I doubt they can be any worse than Bickel, Richards, Mashinter or Boyle. Just call up some guys while we have injuries and give them a couple of games to show what they can do, in stead of playing guys out of position or favoring guys who create absolutely nothing. I'm sick and tired of seeing Bickel on the wing, Richards on the PP and every 2nd ES shift. I am sick of Boyle taking a penalty every time we score.

 

[silverfish]

Disapprove. I'm not a Torts guy.

Only 2 games over .500, and the 29th pp in the league? Sorry. Yes, Sullivan runs the PP, but Sully is Torts' boy and only here because of Torts.

Stubbornness to change the style of play mid-game when things aren't working, dedication to one and only one system.

The Rangers breakout of choice is d-men blindly throwing it up the boards. 95% of the time it's just giving away possession to the other team.

I don't like the way this team plays most of the time. Even last season I didn't like it, and they finished tops in the conference So, how much do I know? Maybe not a lot.

I don't know how anyone can be satisified with this team only being in 8th place a quarter of the way into the season. The Rangers have lost five games in the first twelve games. Last season in their first 48 the Rangers lost 12 games in regulation, and 5 in OT/SO.

This three game winning streak is nice and all, but I can't wait to look back on this thread the next time the Rangers lose a game and this board goes ape ****.

Posted this on 2/14

Funny how much the poll has tilted since then.

 

[Captain Monglobster]

You know that the coach doesn't control the players like in NHL 13 right? Look at the progress that alot of the young players have made with Torts, people must have nothing better to do than make knee-jerk reactions.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Torts doesn't appear to know how to adjust to his personnel. It appears he is trying to jam (no pun intended) his system into the players without regard for their talents. This is like a hitting coach who tries to make everyone swing the bat the same way no matter how each player like to approach hitting. That is a recipe for disaster. He needs to adjust and soon or we will not make the playoffs. And with this roster, he will deserve to be fired.

I wonder, is it really a case of not knowing how to change...or being too afraid to change?

You have a system that gets you tops in the Eastern Conference and within one win of the Stanley Cup final. Your team gets the Vezina, have other guys in the top 5 for Norris, Jack Adams, etc....

We all know the system does need to bend to accomodate the additional skill, but it's not as easy as it sounds on paper. It would take a lot of balls to just up and change out a system that had that much success.