All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread

[trilobyte]

Renney was a scapegoat. I guess he's similar to Torts. The bar has been set way too high for a team with not enough talent.

That's an interesting view.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Oh c'mon. Are Lindy Ruff and Marc Crawford really that much better than Torts?

 

[trilobyte]

Renney was a scapegoat. I guess he's similar to Torts. The bar has been set way too high for a team with not enough talent.

If Renney was a scapegoat, and Tortorella is also a scapegoat, why would Renney be better, and/or why fire Torts?

I am not fully for the dump and chase grind style. Most hockey fans want more drama, more highs. My dream was to see some speed incorporated into the team, and it is there, no doubt about it. It just has not become the new Rangers, at least not yet. I think I am ahead of things by one season, my expectations are too aggressive.

That said, I will return to my normal programming, which is that the Rangers displayed no balls tonight. They were completely out-machoed by the Habs, and allowed themselves to be laughed at by the Habs. Of all teams, the Habs, that bruising Canadiens squad (sarcasm on at full volume there.)

Sad

 

[Dorado*]

Torts apologists wake up this guy sucks .
Paul Maclean is a real coach
Pete Deboer is a real coach .
Torts is a hypocrite clown

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

No way he's fired if McDonagh/Girardi/Nash are out for extended periods and they play horribly with these injuries. He'll definitely be given until next season in that scenario.

Myself, I'm kinda leaning towards letting him go either way, if he doesn't want to change the way he wants his team to approach each game. This team just isn't built for a grinding, in your face system. I don't think Tortorella is a horrible coach, I just think he's extremely stubborn and refuses to change the way he wants his team to play, regardless of the kind of team he has.

IF they were to let go of Torts, I would try and pry Dallas Eakins away from the Leafs/Marlies and bring him in as head coach.

 

[The Gloaming]

My biggest gripe with Torts is that he seems to treat every player the same way if they're struggling or if they're new.

Example: Using Brian Boyle with every single new rookie, ever.
we all remember that when Hags came in last year, he played with Boyle and was on the first line by March. That's great. BUT, Hags is just the type of player that you can stick anywhere and it'll work. That's just who he is. But not everyone can play like he does.
Enter CK and JT. Can someone please tell me what Brian Boyle is going to do to help those two? Lumber behind the play? Flub his passes? Oh well, I guess he's a decent grinder.
Those two, CK especially, are just not suited to play with a guy like Brian Boyle. Is he going to make space for them by hitting and grinding? Maybe. But space can also be made with quick passes, creativity, and movement. Boyle isn't providing you with any of that. Maybe allow them to play with the playmakers? (Which isn't a lot right now, considering that Richards is still sucking.) Allow them to play themselves off the top 6 rather than into it.

And does anyone remember our patented offensive zone entry move on the power play last year? Richards drop pass in Neutral zone to DZ or Gaborik? That constantly failed, and yet this team constantly did it. I'd have a hard time believing that Torts told them to stop trying it and they didn't listen and continued doing it anyway. Not many adjustments except for line changes.

If at first something fails, maybe it's time to try something new.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Torts apologists wake up this guy sucks .
Paul Maclean is a real coach
Pete Deboer is a real coach .
Torts is a hypocrite clown

One of them won a Stanley Cup as a head coach and the others haven't. Who did?

 

[Dorado*]

One of them won a Stanley Cup as a head coach and the others haven't. Who did?

Years ago with a handful of hall of famers . Torts era is passed

 

[Whiplash27]

To say that Torts doesn't have any talent on this team is laughable.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

To say that Torts doesn't have any talent on this team is laughable.

IMO, it's quite the opposite. This team has a lot of skilled players (Hagelin, Stepan, Gaborik, Nash, Kreider, Richards, Miller, Callahan), but they don't have a lot of gritty, in your face players. Most of those players aren't really "soft", outside of Gaborik and Richards, but they're not the type of players that will wreak havoc on teams' opposing D in the form of forechecking/cycling. They need to start setting up in the D zone, up through the neutral zone, and already have the puck under control as they enter the offensive zone. Set up off the rush, not off the dump and chase.

 

[Heyoooo*]

IMO, it's quite the opposite. This team has a lot of skilled players (Hagelin, Stepan, Gaborik, Nash, Kreider, Richards, Miller, Callahan), but they don't have a lot of gritty, in your face players. Most of those players aren't really "soft", outside of Gaborik and Richards, but they're not the type of players that will wreak havoc on teams' opposing D in the form of forechecking/cycling. They need to start setting up in the D zone, up through the neutral zone, and already have the puck under control as they enter the defensive zone. Set up off the rush, not off the dump and chase.

This is what im lobbying for. Opening up space for the guys who operate BEST under said space (Gaborik, Richards), carrying the puck up the ice, open transition, give and goes, etc.

Theyre too busy concentrating on taking the body at times than the puck (which ive seen a lot), creating "jam" and setting up the perfect pass.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

This is what im lobbying for. Opening up space for the guys who operate BEST under said space (Gaborik, Richards), carrying the puck up the ice, open transition, give and goes, etc.

Theyre too busy concentrating on taking the body at times than the puck (which ive seen a lot), creating "jam" and setting up the perfect pass.

The Rangers have been trying to set up the perfect pass for their entire existence. It never works.

They need to get pucks at the net, get shots from the point, it creates rebounds and rebounds can open up space in the high slot as opposing players try to control the puck.

 

[NY Lito]

A coach takes us the farthest we've been in 15 years, and 16 games into the next season people are calling for his head. 16 games, mind you, with a lineup of 50% new forwards (with no training camp) and a slew of injuries that followed.

Classic Ranger fans. Ridiculous.

 

[Heyoooo*]

Im just gonna post this here from the main board.

As a Rangers fan, this is incredibly frustrating to watch. The Rangers have no real offense. It seems like Rangers score goals when they don't need them, and struggle mightily to score a needed goal, which gives a misleading representation of their offensive prowess. Tort's system is wearing thin in my opinion. People keep bringing up his Cup run with the Lightning, but that was pre-lockout! Everybody seems to forget that he wont before the lockout, and the game has changed SO much since then! It's far less physical and more speed and skill based. I just don't see Tort's system having real consistent success in today's league.

Another thing is I think the Rangers are tough in the wrong way. They seem to want to play the man rather than the puck, and it gets them in trouble. They give up possession of the puck to finish a check, which I think is foolish. If the puck is right there in front of you, get the puck, don't just check the guy to check the guy. But if you're going to be physical, then be physical. Those saying the Rangers are much softer than last year are right. The good news is the Rangers seem to finally be getting their heads on straight and haven't had a too many men on the ice penalty in a while, and their power play is finally showing at least some life.

The Rangers have too much talent to be struggling this much offensively. Tort's system is 100% grind based, and after grinding for so long, something's gonna eventually chip, and we're seeing it with Girardi. It's very tough because you want to give Tort's the benefit of a full offseason and a full training camp, but at the same time the Ranger's windows is incredibly thin. I don't think it's possible for the Rangers to keep all their pieces together with so many of their players becoming free agents. Personally, I think Tort's should be given the benefit of a full offseason etc., but it seems like that's a HUGE risk for having success with the team.

This is just my opinion.

The first paragraph is spot on.

Its no surprise Chicago is dominating teams. Theyre a team built for this type of NHL.

We try to go against the grain and raise everyone's blood pressure in the process instead. Debate all we want about Torts grinding and shot blocking system, in the end, im just not a fan of it at all. Its exhausting to watch the system itself and this personnel carry it out.

 

[trilobyte]

Let's dream a bit.
Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf are Rangers.

My hope would be that they put on the Rangers blue, skate out and do what they do.
Would that be a realistic expectation? Or, would 'Rangeritis' creep in, and that tandem, who we all know, without any doubt, are top level players, not become what was expected and be personna non grata two seasons later?

I've been a Rangers fan forever, seen them come and go, so my question is valid. And obviously not related to a particular coach.

 

[Heyoooo*]

Im so sick of fantasizing about free agents fixing our team. Just the principle of it.

Its an annual event.

 

[NY Lito]

Let's dream a bit.
Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf are Rangers.

My hope would be that they put on the Rangers blue, skate out and do what they do.
Would that be a realistic expectation? Or, would 'Rangeritis' creep in, and that tandem, who we all know, without any doubt, are top level players, not become what was expected and be personna non grata two seasons later?

I've been a Rangers fan forever, seen them come and go, so my question is valid. And obviously not related to a particular coach.

This is off topic but to answer your question...

I see Getzlaf absolutely mailing it in if he were to come here. I've heard he's been very up and down in Anaheim, where's he's the CAPTAIN, so I want no part of him. On paper he's everything we need, but no thank you.

Perry is someone I just don't see coming here. In terms of him playing up to his potential in NY, I don't see that as a problem.

 

[trilobyte]

Im so sick of fantasizing about free agents fixing our team. Just the principle of it.

Its an annual event.

But, let's forget about the principle of it.
As I just said, let's look at the undeniable talent of a player, still in their prime. I'm not talking about a tired Marcel Dionne, or such player.

My problem is that I am becoming cynical. In fact, I would almost fully expect that if Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf arrived, they would not work out.

I feel bad about my feelings. Think I will go to bed and try to hope for good things for the Rangers in the near term. I am not religious enough to expect prayers to work.

 

[Heyoooo*]

But, let's forget about the principle of it.
As I just said, let's look at the undeniable talent of a player, still in their prime. I'm not talking about a tired Marcel Dionne, or such player.

My problem is that I am becoming cynical. In fact, I would almost fully expect that if Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf arrived, they would not work out.

I feel bad about my feelings. Think I will go to bed and try to hope for good things for the Rangers in the near term. I am not religious enough to expect prayers to work.

Im so over the concept of relying on FA's I honestly dont want another one for the next 5 years, which is obviously idiotic but its just from the last ~15 years of absolute failure. Its not realistic because FAs are needed to fill holes, etc. but we look use them the wrong way.

 

[McSauer]

A coach takes us the farthest we've been in 15 years, and 16 games into the next season people are calling for his head. 16 games, mind you, with a lineup of 50% new forwards (with no training camp) and a slew of injuries that followed.

Classic Ranger fans. Ridiculous.

We didn't win the cup last year, stop referring to it as such a perfect, exemplary season; Christ, we didn't go all the way in part in part to this ****** "system" we have...

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

A coach takes us the farthest we've been in 15 years, and 16 games into the next season people are calling for his head. 16 games, mind you, with a lineup of 50% new forwards (with no training camp) and a slew of injuries that followed.

Classic Ranger fans. Ridiculous.

In the past 15 years, we've been a symbol of NHL mediocrity.

Please, let's not act like an ECF run where we hardly beat the two, inferior teams prior and completely fell apart IN said ECF is the pinnacle of great coaching. It's the farthest we've been in years because, from the top, this has been a horribly constructed team up until last year.

 

[Callagraves]

We didn't win the cup last year, stop referring to it as such a perfect, exemplary season; Christ, we didn't go all the way in part in part to this ****** "system" we have...

It was a really, REALLY good season.

It was a pretty decent post season. only 2 teams went further.

 

[NY Lito]

We didn't win the cup last year, stop referring to it as such a perfect, exemplary season; Christ, we didn't go all the way in part in part to this ****** "system" we have...

In the past 15 years, we've been a symbol of NHL mediocrity.

Please, let's not act like an ECF run where we hardly beat the two, inferior teams prior and completely fell apart IN said ECF is the pinnacle of great coaching. It's the farthest we've been in years because, from the top, this has been a horribly constructed team up until last year.

You're right. Last year was pure luck; we advanced to the ECF in spite of Torts' coaching.

And let's be real. He's had 16 games too many to get this team playing well. He should have been let go yesterday. 16 games? That's an eternity to get a team to gel together.

I'm surprised some of you aren't blaming the injuries on Torts. Oh wait. You are. It's Torts' fault Girardi turned his foot when blocking Subban's shot.

This fanbase absolutely sucks sometimes. Scratch that. Most of the time.

 

[NY Lito]

In the past 15 years, we've been a symbol of NHL mediocrity.

Please, let's not act like an ECF run where we hardly beat the two, inferior teams prior and completely fell apart IN said ECF is the pinnacle of great coaching. It's the farthest we've been in years because, from the top, this has been a horribly constructed team up until last year.

Also, you can honestly say you took a look at last year's roster and said "Hey we can definitely make it to the ECF. Hell, we'll finish first in the East and make a run at the President's Trophy."

Fact is, Tortorella's coaching was great last year. You're being an ignorant ass if you say it wasn't.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

You're right. Last year was pure luck; we advanced to the ECF in spite of Torts' coaching.

And let's be real. He's had 16 games too many to get this team playing well. He should have been let go yesterday. 16 games? That's an eternity to get a team to gel together.

I'm surprised some of you aren't blaming the injuries on Torts. Oh wait. You are. It's Torts' fault Girardi turned his foot when blocking Subban's shot.

This fanbase absolutely sucks sometimes. Scratch that. Most of the time.

Umm, don't put words in my mouth.

I didn't say last year was pure luck, all I said was that it's not like Torts was doing the impossible or anything - all I'm saying is that if the team isn't responding to him, or isn't built for his system, yes, I'm going to start questioning whether or not he's the right option for this franchise moving forward. I've NEVER been a huge fan of Torts' coaching style. I like him more than a lot of other coaches, but I don't think the style of play he employs is right for our current roster.

Why does voicing this concern make me "suck" as a fan? Is it because you disagree with me? I don't give a **** if you disagree with me, disagree with me all you want, just don't belittle me or others like that, especially if you're not going to argue the points I've been bringing up with some actual analysis, just "OMG ur so stoopid" isn't going to cut it.