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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part IV

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Bleed Ranger Blue said:
They have ZERO clue on how to obtain this long term happiness you're talking about. Zero. They want blood, and they want it now. Complaining for the sake of complaining right after a playoff win is a sad, sad, thing.
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That isn't true at all. Some people have given names for options for a coach and the people who support Tortorella shoot them down because they have never heard of them, which is ridiculous.

And as far as your second point, it is a no win situation. Blind die hard supporters of the coach say that people only complain after a loss and it is a knee jerk reaction to losing. Then when people criticize him after a win they get this nonsense, or if they remain quiet after a win they get called out for "disappearing." Both sides have extremes, there is nothing wrong with criticizing some of his moves after a win, just like he should be criticized after some losses. I gave him credit for finally doing some positive things last night, but there were still some issues.

The problem with this thread is that the two extremes always seem to float to the top, like other things.....
 
truebluegoalie said:
That isn't true at all. Some people have given names for options for a coach and the people who support Tortorella shoot them down because they have never heard of them, which is ridiculous.

And as far as your second point, it is a no win situation. Blind die hard supporters of the coach say that people only complain after a loss and it is a knee jerk reaction to losing. Then when people criticize him after a win they get this nonsense, or if they remain quiet after a win they get called out for "disappearing." Both sides have extremes, there is nothing wrong with criticizing some of his moves after a win, just like he should be criticized after some losses. I gave him credit for finally doing some positive things last night, but there were still some issues.

The problem with this thread is that the two extremes always seem to float to the top, like other things.....
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Ive only seen one person who is a die-hard Torts supporter, and Im almost convinced Kel Varsen is a mouthpiece/yes-man for the Rangers organization.

I see a lot of other folks on this board, knowledgeable ones, that take in all the factors and realize an immediate coaching change will make little difference, just as its done in the past.

To proclaim that a coach's shelf life is overwith less than a year removed from a conference finals birth, after a lockout shortened season, and after 2 major roster revisions, one of them just 6 weeks ago, is not just impatient, its petulant.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
I wonder if having the #2 point producer in NHL history, and one of the best offensive defenseman of all-time at his disposal helped Keenan get the team to score goals.

:propeller:
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Yet those same players did not even make the playoffs the season before the cup. If you do not believe we play conservatively than there is no point in me replying any further.
 
The 92-93 Rangers lost Leetch for a major part of the season with 2 injuries. Messier was still bothered by a rib injury from 91-92 playoffs. The goaltending was a mess. Roger was fired. Keenan was a skunk. He couldn't wait to leave or push the GM out the door. MSG puts him on TV and Keenan has nothing to add. Ron Duguay and Brian Leetch are a million times better than Mike. Keenan is on NBC Sports and I turn the channel. He has zero insight. The 91-92 team was a ***** hair away from beating Pitt and winning the whole thing. Torts is a good coach but he's been here for almost 4 full seasons(including 48 game season) plus a few months in 08-09. He is not a bad guy. He is too stubborn. Kreider can't be trusted but his other forwards are keystone cops all over the ice. Every coach has a shelf life before its time for a new coach.Torts won't be the coach of the Rangers forever.
 
RangerBoy said:
The 92-93 Rangers lost Leetch for a major part of the season with 2 injuries. Messier was still bothered by a rib injury from 91-92 playoffs. The goaltending was a mess. Roger was fired. Keenan was a skunk. He couldn't wait to leave or push the GM out the door. MSG puts him on TV and Keenan has nothing to add. Ron Duguay and Brian Leetch are a million times better than Mike. Keenan is on NBC Sports and I turn the channel. He has zero insight. The 91-92 team was a ***** hair away from beating Pitt and winning the whole thing. Torts is a good coach but he's been here for almost 4 full seasons(including 48 game season) plus a few months in 08-09. He is not a bad guy. He is too stubborn. Kreider can't be trusted but his other forwards are keystone cops all over the ice. Every coach has a shelf life before its time for a new coach.Torts won't be the coach of the Rangers forever.
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It's amazing how MSG has been willing to sweep Keenan's poison, self-centered actions under the rug. He should be nowhere near this team.
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway said:
It's amazing how MSG has been willing to sweep Keenan's poison, self-centered actions under the rug. He should be nowhere near this team.
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Amazing how much they'll 'forget' because of ONE Cup win in 75,000 years ;)

Do I hear a Messier comeback in the works? Admit it, you wouldn't be shocked if you woke up and read that tomorrow :D
 
Keenan was allegedly talking to the Wings about taking them over when he was still coaching the Rangers in the Jersey series. Illitch was prepared to fire Bowman and everyone to hire Keenan. Bryan Murray(GM) and Doug MacLean(AGM) were fired after the Wings lost to SJ. Bowman was the coach. MacLean spilled the beans to the media about Keenan. I heard MacLean tell the story on the radio. Bowman called MacLean after Illtch fired MacLean. Bowman said Illtch was bringing in Keenan and he was also getting canned. Illitch changed his mind or was afraid of being caught tampering so Bowman stayed. Holland was given more personnel control. The rest is history. 4 Cups with Holland in charge. 3 with Scotty. 6 finals.
 
Calad said:
Yeah, we can just ignore that the salary caps exist and that we have to resign these kids.
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If you actually believe that the New York Rangers traded for Rick Nash with the intention of trading Marian Gaborik to CBJ a few months later for "cap reasons" than you need to dig your head out of the sand quickly before you suffocate.
 
"Losing the Edge" by Barry Meisel should be required reading for posters on these boards. Keenan's deification is hilarious to me. That 94 team won the Cup in spite of Keenan's antics not because of him.
 
StaalWars said:
"Losing the Edge" by Barry Meisel should be required reading for posters on these boards. Keenan's deification is hilarious to me. That 94 team won the Cup in spite of Keenan's antics not because of him.
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After reading it like 4 times, I've managed to appreciate Messier's existence even more. I'm amazed they didn't revolt against Keenan.
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway said:
The two best parts of that book:

1) Keenan confronting Glenn Healy

2) "Mike Gartman"
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His bi-polarity at times was bizarre. Just the parts about Leetch.

-Lashes out at him in front of his teammates with the, "You're no ****ing Chelios" thing
-Calls him up to see how he was doing after he broke up with his girlfriend at the time.

Just weird dude.

The Healy thing was hilarious. He was livid.
 
RangerBoy said:
The 92-93 Rangers lost Leetch for a major part of the season with 2 injuries. Messier was still bothered by a rib injury from 91-92 playoffs. The goaltending was a mess. Roger was fired. Keenan was a skunk. He couldn't wait to leave or push the GM out the door. MSG puts him on TV and Keenan has nothing to add. Ron Duguay and Brian Leetch are a million times better than Mike. Keenan is on NBC Sports and I turn the channel. He has zero insight. The 91-92 team was a ***** hair away from beating Pitt and winning the whole thing. Torts is a good coach but he's been here for almost 4 full seasons(including 48 game season) plus a few months in 08-09. He is not a bad guy. He is too stubborn. Kreider can't be trusted but his other forwards are keystone cops all over the ice. Every coach has a shelf life before its time for a new coach.Torts won't be the coach of the Rangers forever.
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Made me chuckle.
 
Bob Richards said:
His bi-polarity at times was bizarre. Just the parts about Leetch.

-Lashes out at him in front of his teammates with the, "You're no ****ing Chelios" thing
-Calls him up to see how he was doing after he broke up with his girlfriend at the time.

Just weird dude.

The Healy thing was hilarious. He was livid.
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It also showed how insecure he really was about some things.
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway said:
The two best parts of that book:

1) Keenan confronting Glenn Healy

2) "Mike Gartman"
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Haha, Keenan confronting Healy was amazing. I laughed so hard when I read that part.

Been a few years since I read it, though, can't exactly remember what happened. Think it had something to do with Scotty Bowman and how many cups he had compared to Keenan, and then Keenan told Healy to get the **** out. :laugh:
 
I seriously recommend that book to anyone who thinks Torts is too harsh. Keenan was a full blown sociopath.
 
StaalWars said:
"Losing the Edge" by Barry Meisel should be required reading for posters on these boards. Keenan's deification is hilarious to me. That 94 team won the Cup in spite of Keenan's antics not because of him.
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I think Keenans record before the trap-era speaks for itself, both in a positive and negative direction.

He got very far often.

He never stayed long at one place nor built anything that lasted.

But I don't buy that we won despite of him really. Going all the way in the NHL can be really tough, and Keenans focus and determination definitely pushed his players.

I like Torts in the same areas, and think that its a darn pitty that -- from my point of view at least -- he just does not seem to be able to ice a state of the art team post-lockout/removal of the redline offside rule etc.

And in the cap era with the level playing field we have, it seems likely that you will need both. We play a style desiged to cut down on misstakes in the neutralzone, but by doing so we loose alot of pucks that we just throw up ice -- and its so hard to defend nowaydays that we give up alot of chances despite not making any big blunders. And due to focusing so much at not loosing pucks in the transition game, we give up alot of offense. I see the same results, and have seen the same results for all of Torts stay here (last year included) -- and that is that we give up a substansial amount more chances then we create due to how we play.

A ton of games is played in this league, and sure, we play teams that don't show up at times, but it seems like its extremely rare that we play a decent team and comfortably controlls a game. Looking at the top 8 teams in this league, its basically the opposite.
 
Brian Boyle said:
Haha, Keenan confronting Healy was amazing. I laughed so hard when I read that part.

Been a few years since I read it, though, can't exactly remember what happened. Think it had something to do with Scotty Bowman and how many cups he had compared to Keenan, and then Keenan told Healy to get the **** out. :laugh:
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No, Healy said there was a difference between Keenan and Al Arbour — which is a pretty innocuous comment. Called Healy into his office and said, "So, what's the difference between me and Arbour?" Healy replied, "four Cups."
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway said:
No, Healy said there was a difference between Keenan and Al Arbour — which is a pretty innocuous comment. Called Healy into his office and said, "So, what's the difference between me and Arbour?" Healy replied, "four Cups."
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Yeah, that's it. Man, my memory is foggy. :laugh: Hey, at least I was kind of close.
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway said:
No, Healy said there was a difference between Keenan and Al Arbour — which is a pretty innocuous comment. Called Healy into his office and said, "So, what's the difference between me and Arbour?" Healy replied, "four Cups."
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Keenan and Healy had some major animosity towards one another - sometimes it was even exposed on the ice.

I remember one game in '94 at the Nassau Coliseum when Keenan pulled Richter. Healy had come over a year earlier after a very impressive run with the Islanders to the conference finals. Healy proceeds to give up a goal that wasnt his fault and is immediately replaced by Richter.

Just a classless thing to do to a guy getting in a game in his old arena.
 
Yeah that was a dick thing to do to Healy.

Keenan was hoping Healy would come in and push Richter into winning the job not just earning it by default, and then maybe supplant him in the playoffs if needed. Healy got to NY and became buddies with everyone including Richter. I get the feeling Keenan wanted less smiles, more military than frat house :D
 
I can't see the Rangers firing Torts but if they do, is the obvious choice former New York Ranger and NHL coaching veteran, Lindy Ruff?
 
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