All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part IV

[The Gloaming]

Trading for Nash and than trading Gaborik to CBJ is the most obvious example of the knuckleheadedness of this whole organization. Individually the moves might make sense but if you look in tandem you can see that there was no long term planning involved whatsoever.

This.

Guys! We can't score! Let's get Nash!

Derp. Now we don't have depth. Let's trade Gaborik.

And we're back to one offensive threat and a bunch of passengers.

 

[Calad]

Trading for Nash and than trading Gaborik to CBJ is the most obvious example of the knuckleheadedness of this whole organization. Individually the moves might make sense but if you look in tandem you can see that there was no long term planning involved whatsoever.

Yeah, we can just ignore that the salary caps exist and that we have to resign these kids.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The talent is here. The coach needs to be replaced, PERIOD.

If we lose to Washington and we don't fire the coach, then expect more of the same, next year.

It all hinges on this Washington series, eh? You'd be a perfect candidate to work in the Rangers front office with that obtuse outlook.

 

[NYRKindms]

This.

It's pretty tough to explain. Individually, moves look okay on paper. But the team continues to toil in perpetual mediocrity.

Would've preferred neither of those trades since previous players helped lead team to ECF and 50 wins. Then everything was blown up.

The only thing consistent has been a lack of player/talent evaluation.

The Gomez, Drury, Redden, and now it seems Richards signings are clear indicators that the front office has no ability to evaluate talent properly. And this is just a small sampling of the "talent" that our GM has signed over his tenure.

People like to give Sather a pass because he manged to polish his own turds by turning catastrophic team killing signings in to things that weren't so bad but the lost seasons, revolving door of players etc have killed this teams depth.

 

[RangerBoy]

Dallas Eakins comes from the Roger Neilson/Colin Campbell Peterborough Petes. Eakins played for the Rangers in the 1997 playoffs when Soupy was the head coach. Brian Burke would have hired Eakins as his coach in Dallas but Jim Nill got the Stars GM job. Eakins is in his 4th season as Marlies head coach. One fault of the Rangers organization is never grooming an AHL coach to take over. If the Rangers keep Torts and they decide to fire him in November 2013,their choices will be limited to the out of work guys. They won't be allowed to hire a coach under contract to another organization. Steve Yzerman hired Jon Cooper in 2010 to coach their AHL team. He won a Calder Cup and was named AHL coach of the year. Yzerman hired Cooper from the USHL Green Bay Gamblers. Yzerman hired Cooper as Lightning coach. The results will show if that was a good move but Yzerman had a plan in place. You can't say that about the Rangers. Ken Gernander? George McPhee interviewed Cooper but he went with Oates.

 

[NYR94]

"Oh wait, now we're having trouble scoring in the playoffs."

This is exactly what many feared the minute the Gaborik trade was announced. The entire summer we heard "Rangers are unbeatable now that they've added Nash to Gaborik & Co. Two All-Star snipers, so much scoring!"

Then Sather's work is undone at the deadline when he sends Gaborik to Columbus and the Rangers are back to being a one star (not counting goal) team. Like SBOB said, there's no plan. If the plan were to basically swap Gaborik for Nash, then they could have done a 1-for-1 deal. But it obviously wasn't because Nash was brought in to supplement the offense already provided by Gaborik.

Not to mention the fact that the players they got back from Columbus aren't as versatile as the ones they traded, or the fact that the fleixibility provided by forwards like Anisimov and Dubinsky that the Rangers lost has been cited by Tortorella early in the season as one of the weaknesses of this team. Plus the Rangers miss Gaborik's speed. Speed wins in this league. It's why you always notice Hagelin all over the place on the ice. Too bad his hands aren't so great.

Teams need gamebreakers to win in the playoffs who can strike fast. The Rangers can't expect to grind their way to enough goals to win playoff games from behind the "icing line" as Pierre called it. I don't see how you don't utilize as much of the offensive zone as you can to create something rather than focusing on creating your attack behind the net. The Isles yesterday were coming at the Penguins in waves with speed through the attack zone in addition to winning the hard puck battles along the boards.

Lundqvist is so good that his high level of play most nights hides the fact that this team is deficient offensively AND to a lesser degree defensively on a year-to-year basis. The weaknesses are magnified and become most critical during the playoffs when an opposition goalie steps up and matches Lundqvist's play on the stat sheet, like Holtby is doing now. While the Rangers aren't creating the high quality scoring chances that Washington is, Holtby is still stopping nearly everything that's thrown at him. When another team's goaltender is stopping everything, that takes away the Rangers' one advantage over nearly every other team, the goaltending. The Rangers aren't good enough in any other areas of the game to win when Lundqvist is equaled.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

I don't think I've ever seen another team that struggles and battles so hard in the offensive zone just to not score.

That **** has to get exhausting.

 

[The Gloaming]

Holtby is not equalling Lundqvist. Yeah, the stat sheet says so, but the chances against haven't even been close. This team has an abysmal 1.7 shooting % through 2 games. As offensively inept as they come.

 

[RangerBoy]

If you go back and look when the Rangers were pursuing Nash in the spring of 2012,the dynamic of having Nash and Gaborik on the team was discussed. Having 2 big money right wingers. $15.3M combined. The Rangers current and future commitments. CBA. Flat cap. Ryan Callahan plays the same position.

 

[pld459666]

If you go back and look when the Rangers were pursuing Nash in the spring of 2012,the dynamic of having Nash and Gaborik on the team was discussed. Having 2 big money right wingers. $15.3M combined. The Rangers current and future commitments. CBA. Flat cap. Ryan Callahan plays the same position.

Nash does and has played well on the LW.

I think the thought (hope) going in was that these guys were going to play on the same line and tear it up.

didn't happen and then what SBOB said.

 

[pld459666]

I don't think I've ever seen another team that struggles and battles so hard in the offensive zone just to not score.

That **** has to get exhausting.

It's worse in that alot of times, they don't even generate a decent scoring chance.

Often times they battle and battle and battle just to get off a weak wrister from Richards or have one of the defenceman shoot wide....again.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Gabby was a shell of his former self this year. This notion that if only we had him right now we'd be killing it is absurd.

 

[Cake or Death]

Agreed. Top 5 roster? Huh? Some folks need to pay a little more attention around the NHL, I think.

Washington is a good example. They have been one of the best teams in the NHL for about 6 weeks now. Their top offensive catalysts in Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Green blow away what the Rangers have to offer.

Yet, the mighty Rangers, held back by their evil coach, should blow away these guys in 5 or 6? Get your heads out of the sand.

You're right, no one can have an alternate view or they don't pay attention and have their heads in the sand. Meanwhile, for some crazy reason, odds makers had the Rangers, Pens and Kings as odds on favorites to win it all before the season started. A majority of experts in the sport had the Rangers going deep, as well.

Look, I'm not gonna get snippy with head in sand comments, because I respect that everyone's entitled to an opinion. Plus, I actually like your posts and I think you at least make valid points. Even if I don't agree with them at times, I can respect there's at least rationale. But I wouldn't exactly say my head is in the sand. I've been playing the game over 40 years and probably watched in the neighborhood of 7000 hockey games in that time. I'm enthralled with this sport to the extent that when my son turned two I moved to Canada so he was in a better hockey environment when he got old enough to skate. My wife's Canadian, too, because I need someone who understands my need to watch a dozen games a week.

Moreover, I don't do knee jerk reactions. I didn't just jump on the 'fire torts' wagon twelve seconds ago. I've wanted him gone for a few seasons now (or for him to bring in a tactical assistant). Nonetheless, below is my post from April 2011, feel free to refute it or disagree. But to me these same inherent problems were there two years ago and are still here now. My post from 2011...

When the players do not take it upon themselves to deviate from the plan, this is an utterly simple offensive system to shut down. The forwards collapse too low, are isolated from utilizing the players on the point, so our forwards are generally playing a down low 3 on 5 in the offensive zone. The opposition's book on us is not complex. We don't effectively use all 5 players in the offensive zone, so collapse on our forwards and we generally won't score all too much. And our PP won't offset this because it looks like we never practice our PP. I'm not suggesting we have a Cup-caliber roster. But that's all the more reason for an effective offensive system that efficiently uses all 5 players in the offensive zone. It's all the more reason to drill fundamentals - like passing, breakouts, and play without the puck - into the players' heads. I mean ****, a well coached AHL team will generate more chances and create more rebounds than the Rangers. And that, to me, is an issue of a weak system and poorly executed fundamentals.

No matter how you slice our roster, Dave Tippett has a better regular season and playoff record with Phoenix the past few seasons. Are you going to tell me we have a worse roster than the Coyotes during that time?

 

[Crazed Beaver]

Torts has chosen his words carefully when this team has underperformed. I get the feeling he knows the players are sick of his act. I've watched games in every series and IMO the first two games of this series something's not right. Seeing little to no emotion or desperation.

Does anyone believe lindberg or fasth will succeed under torts and his system? Lol no way in hell, he going to ruin every prospect he comes in contact with.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

No matter how you slice our roster, Dave Tippett has a better regular season and playoff record with Phoenix the past few seasons. Are you going to tell me we have a worse roster than the Coyotes during that time?

Dave Tippett is one of the best coaches in the game. I'd replace him with Torts tonight if he was available. Hes not.

And the problem is that no one near Tippett's prowess is available.

 

[MrEctions]

Honest question, and it might have been asked already. Would you want AV to replace Torts if/when Vancouver fires him, which I think they will after the postseason.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Honest question, and it might have been asked already. Would you want AV to replace Torts if/when Vancouver fires him, which I think they will after the postseason.

lolno

Really not much else to say to that suggestion.

 

[Kershaw]

Honest question, and it might have been asked already. Would you want AV to replace Torts if/when Vancouver fires him, which I think they will after the postseason.

Whichever coach it will be, they will be requested to be fired by Rangers fan after 1 yr where they 'underachieved' again.

 

[MrEctions]

lolno

Really not much else to say to that suggestion.

Nor would I but I was curious to see what those who badly wants Torts gone would say. You have to look at the coaching landscape and see if there's even a viable replacement. The two most prominent would be Ruff, hell no, and AV (potentially), which is a no from me as well.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

Honest question, and it might have been asked already. Would you want AV to replace Torts if/when Vancouver fires him, which I think they will after the postseason.

Some of the criticism I've seen AV get from Canucks fans includes:

-A complete unwillingness to adapt
-A bizarre infatuation with particular players
-Good players being give **** ice time and bad players being rewarded

Sounds familiar.

 

[Cake or Death]

Dave Tippett is one of the best coaches in the game. I'd replace him with Torts tonight if he was available. Hes not.

And the problem is that no one near Tippett's prowess is available.

Valid. But based on that, maybe we can at least agree that we probably have overall had a better roster than Phoenix but as they are out-performing us, maybe our coach hasn't gotten the most juice out of the orange.

 

[Richter Scale]

You would like to make it sound like it's blind hatred that is behind the call to remove Tortorella, when it's not. The man admitted publicly "we don't coach offense". Given our historic lack of offense, what more do we need see from this man?

Please stop using this meme seriously. It is a bald faced lie. It has been taken so far out of context and twisted since his original comments. In no universe did he say, or intend to say, that he didn't coach offense. Go back and watch/listen to the interview. All he was saying is that he didn't feel the system got in the way of offensive creativity. There is a world of difference between the two.

Want to use it as a joke? Fine; I may actually even laugh if its after a stretch of games where the NYR have been awful offensively. But stop using it as a serious justification for firing the guy. It is ridiculous.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Some of the criticism I've seen AV get from Canucks fans includes:

-A complete unwillingness to adapt
-A bizarre infatuation with particular players
-Good players being give **** ice time and bad players being rewarded

Sounds familiar.

It's funny to see when fans start to realize this and still think they're the ones who know best.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

It's funny to see when fans start to realize this and still think they're the ones who know best.

I'm just saying that AV gets criticism for a lot of things that fans here give to Torts so the suggestions to make this move always confused me.

 

[pld459666]

Nor would I but I was curious to see what those who badly wants Torts gone would say. You have to look at the coaching landscape and see if there's even a viable replacement. The two most prominent would be Ruff, hell no, and AV (potentially), which is a no from me as well.

the problem as I see it is that the coaching landscape extends far far beyond the current HC's in both the NHL and the AHL.

each team has 2 assistants for the most part and that includes the AHL so while you see 30 potential candidates, I see well over a 100 to look at and probably a good 25% of those I would want to speak to on some level.

I would also say that I may even look over seas and some HC's over there as well.

Bottom line is that we have got to get off the re-tread merry go round of hiring the good ol boys.

Lets start putting some of these clowns out to pasture in the way that Barry Melrose and Mike Milbury have been put out to pasture.