gonna have to tone it down a bit if they get on FOX. they can still have blood
AEW All Elite Wrestling #9: Mox Aggressor Brings the Blood
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Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
Still can't get over the stories coming out of All Out...just bat shit
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
Oh, lol, the storylines, fallout, etc, yes, there is some good stuff building from the PPV.
At one point security ran towards the backstage area and chatter started about potentially another altercation and/or more drama but SRS said it was a nothing burger so my mind went to those stories instead of the PPV fallout.
At one point security ran towards the backstage area and chatter started about potentially another altercation and/or more drama but SRS said it was a nothing burger so my mind went to those stories instead of the PPV fallout.
frightenedinmatenum2
Registered User
I just finished watching the PPV, had to avoid spoilers for a few days.
To get the constructive criticism out of the way - Looking at the main event, I think they need to do more to differentiate a 'Lights Out' match presentation wise. The problem is that up until the needle, there is nothing differentiating the match violence wise from matches we have seen "sanctioned" by AEW multiple times. For a match like this, they shouldn't want the presentation to feel like just any AEW match. Even the moment Justin Roberts did his usual cheesy introduction told you, oh yeah it's just another "fake" match, I thought I was going to see something different. Even having the referee try to control the match seems off. I would go as far as to say while they cannot turn the KhanTron off because the crowd needs to see, they should turn off all the light gimmicks and darken everything except the ring. I also think they should not have used a standard AEW referee. Give me a random guy in a black shirt and jeans who doesn't do shit like try to break them up, because he isn't an AEW official, since they didn't sanction the match. He's just there to count the falls.
The other thing I didn't like psychology wise was Swerve being the first one to go for a pin, and to make multiple attempts to put Hangman away. You have Swerve as the face, in a match that is unsanctioned, with the idea being that these two guys have such a hatred for one another that they want to basically have the legal right to murder each other in the ring as revenge. So why is the face trying to end this opportunity as early as possible? The finish was perfect and exactly what it should have been. They came full circle with the story they were telling leading into the match with Swerve characterizing Hangman as being the soft dad, then Hangman cementing himself as a killer by burning down Swerve's house and basically murdering him in the ring. At the same time, Swerve didn't get pinned, and he looked like a badass (other than crying, Steve Austin would never do that). I just don't like from a psychology POV that he was trying to pin Hangman like one, it mattered (it doesn't, it's unsanctioned), and two he wanted to end his chance to continue extracting revenge on Hangman.
The other thing I would nitpick is that AEW's attention to detail in terms of contradicting or repeating angles is a serious problem. They had an entire program based around the top rope piledriver being a move that takes someone out. The opening match built around that, and then they paid it off with Daniel Garcia hitting it and MJF being nerfed. With all that in mind, I do not think the Young Bucks should have done the (whatever they call their version of) the Spike Piledriver in the Danielson match. I understand it's not the exact same thing, but tomato tomato, it's close enough to have Bryan get hit with it and not be injured like Garcia and then MJF on a show where they run a match built around a Piledriver injury is just bad attention to detail.
I think the angle with Moxley was wicked, but I would have saved it for Dynamite. Not only was there already a ton going on, running an attempted murder angle is a bit softened when your main event is attempted murder in a cage. I am not advocating for super slow paced story progression, and I do like eventful shows, but I think pacing is important when it comes to week-to-week build and story telling with wrestling. The show is already going to have loads of talk and interest coming off of the main event, so it detracts from Jon Moxley's order 66 of Bryan Danielson.
I did like the way they did it where they did the most basic wrestling angle with the BCC making the save against Christan's group and you think wow maybe they are going to have an 8 man tag match on Collision one week! Then you get all hyped about setting your DVR and wondering if Minoru Suzuki will make a surprise appearance on Rampage, so you get up to take a leak because everything is done and all of a sudden they subvert your expectations with Jon Moxley is putting the world's most tear resistant produce bag over Bryan Danielson's head. I just think that it should have been done at the end of Dynamite and not crammed into a PPV where there was already a lot going on. Moxley is looking yoked.
To get the constructive criticism out of the way - Looking at the main event, I think they need to do more to differentiate a 'Lights Out' match presentation wise. The problem is that up until the needle, there is nothing differentiating the match violence wise from matches we have seen "sanctioned" by AEW multiple times. For a match like this, they shouldn't want the presentation to feel like just any AEW match. Even the moment Justin Roberts did his usual cheesy introduction told you, oh yeah it's just another "fake" match, I thought I was going to see something different. Even having the referee try to control the match seems off. I would go as far as to say while they cannot turn the KhanTron off because the crowd needs to see, they should turn off all the light gimmicks and darken everything except the ring. I also think they should not have used a standard AEW referee. Give me a random guy in a black shirt and jeans who doesn't do shit like try to break them up, because he isn't an AEW official, since they didn't sanction the match. He's just there to count the falls.
The other thing I didn't like psychology wise was Swerve being the first one to go for a pin, and to make multiple attempts to put Hangman away. You have Swerve as the face, in a match that is unsanctioned, with the idea being that these two guys have such a hatred for one another that they want to basically have the legal right to murder each other in the ring as revenge. So why is the face trying to end this opportunity as early as possible? The finish was perfect and exactly what it should have been. They came full circle with the story they were telling leading into the match with Swerve characterizing Hangman as being the soft dad, then Hangman cementing himself as a killer by burning down Swerve's house and basically murdering him in the ring. At the same time, Swerve didn't get pinned, and he looked like a badass (other than crying, Steve Austin would never do that). I just don't like from a psychology POV that he was trying to pin Hangman like one, it mattered (it doesn't, it's unsanctioned), and two he wanted to end his chance to continue extracting revenge on Hangman.
The other thing I would nitpick is that AEW's attention to detail in terms of contradicting or repeating angles is a serious problem. They had an entire program based around the top rope piledriver being a move that takes someone out. The opening match built around that, and then they paid it off with Daniel Garcia hitting it and MJF being nerfed. With all that in mind, I do not think the Young Bucks should have done the (whatever they call their version of) the Spike Piledriver in the Danielson match. I understand it's not the exact same thing, but tomato tomato, it's close enough to have Bryan get hit with it and not be injured like Garcia and then MJF on a show where they run a match built around a Piledriver injury is just bad attention to detail.
I think the angle with Moxley was wicked, but I would have saved it for Dynamite. Not only was there already a ton going on, running an attempted murder angle is a bit softened when your main event is attempted murder in a cage. I am not advocating for super slow paced story progression, and I do like eventful shows, but I think pacing is important when it comes to week-to-week build and story telling with wrestling. The show is already going to have loads of talk and interest coming off of the main event, so it detracts from Jon Moxley's order 66 of Bryan Danielson.
I did like the way they did it where they did the most basic wrestling angle with the BCC making the save against Christan's group and you think wow maybe they are going to have an 8 man tag match on Collision one week! Then you get all hyped about setting your DVR and wondering if Minoru Suzuki will make a surprise appearance on Rampage, so you get up to take a leak because everything is done and all of a sudden they subvert your expectations with Jon Moxley is putting the world's most tear resistant produce bag over Bryan Danielson's head. I just think that it should have been done at the end of Dynamite and not crammed into a PPV where there was already a lot going on. Moxley is looking yoked.
frightenedinmatenum2
Registered User
I think at this point, the amount of blood and hardcore stuff AEW does is a detriment rather than a positive.
4 years ago, it helped differentiate them from WWE, who were ice cold with a large chunk of fans looking for something "different". Now that WWE is good again, those fans aren't looking for an alternative. As we saw on the PPV, blood and guts style matches are fantastic at the right place and time - but I don't think there should ever be one on Dynamite again except for the War Games knockoff or very special occasions.
I also think it possibly hurts live attendance at a time when AEW needs the boost. A big thing with AEW is that they have done a very bad job marketing a predictable live experience to people, and while their attendance is still very impressive historically when looking at non-WWE promotions, there has been a huge drop off year-to-year. Part of that is not properly marketing the shows in a way where if someone buys a ticket, they know what stars they are going to see. They don't do big dark matches. The tapings are way too long with stuff that the majority of the crowd wouldn't pay for. So they have all those missteps working against them, I think they should welcome the idea that their tapings might be able to be marketed to a family who either can't get enough wrestling because their kids love that Cody Cena guy, or dad is an AEW fan and he feels okay dragging the family there because he knows that it won't be that "hardcore ecw stuff".
I understand the irony that WWE was most popular with young children during their most lewd period in 1998-99, but I don't think that is an apples to oranges comparison, because we're talking about a red hot promotion vs a cold one that can't take available markets for granted.
If it is on Tubi, that's not a big deal, except for the long term possibility of building a relationship with Fox.
As far as why Fox might want AEW, a big reason why they got rid of WWE was because it wasn't profitable and I suppose unlike the NFL or other prestige brands, it didn't make sense as a loss leader. Wrestling is perceived by the advertising industry to be for poor trashy people. The ad rates for wrestling are much lower than other products with relative viewership. Ironically, because this is a hockey forum, I'll point out that the NHL is a prestige brand where the audience is perceived to be more desirable than average to advertisers.
If we are talking about the main network, I can't see why Fox would be interested in anything other than the top A show. Whether that's getting Dynamite, or getting some sort of promise that the Fox show becomes what Dynamite is now. FS1 or Tubi is different. If AEW can get Dynamite on Fox, there is an argument in the short term for taking less money because Network TV leads to much greater overall exposure.
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frightenedinmatenum2
Registered User
I assume they are going to keep Bryan off TV for a while. Yuta not being in on it gives them an actual storyline to play out, where he can eventually turn face on whatever cult Moxley has joined...
Maybe a coincidence, but both Claudio and Moxley were dressed the same. Pac and Yuta were not. I wonder if they are doing some sort of cult angle. The way Pac held Yuta back, didn't make it look like a planned thing. They were celebrating and shit went down, so Pac was a bro and kept Yuta from getting involved because he knew Yuta couldn't stop it and he'd just get his ass kicked. Just like when there is a fight at a McDonalds at 1 AM, and the one guy is slightly more sober stops his bro from jumping in.
Danielson has a match vs Darby on Grand slam which is next week or the week after
Definitely not a coincidence, they were wearing matching outfits on purpose and Yuta was in BCC gear to show he was absolutely out of the loop on what happened. With Pac that's just what he always wears, even when he was in death triangle and other groups, he was definitely in on it.
Grand Slam is on the 25th and Mox keeps saying he wants to talk to Darby. My guess is he wants to talk to Darby because he clearly wants to be the one that takes the title off Bryan and he's going to demand that Darby let's him have the title march at Grand Slam and will tell Darby he can have the winner in his home state of Washington at WrestleDream. If they go that route I'm just not sure how they pull it off that Darby would be ok with something like that. It's going to be interesting.
SnS
Global Moderator
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
Any free agent tag teams out there as surprise? Have we found out if MCMG are in fact signed to WWE?
Clint Eastwood
Eff the Habs
It works well when the pace doesn't suffer and it's executed cleanly. Ricochet I know is capable of going at a torrid pace for longer stretches, Guevara is less likely to keep up.
Still, this one has a very high ceiling.
Just booked a flight to Seattle to visit friends / attend WrestleDream. It's too bad the show is in Tacoma this year, so I'll have to jump through some more logistical hoops.
Debating if I want to splurge for floor seats or if it's better to have an elevated view.
Debating if I want to splurge for floor seats or if it's better to have an elevated view.
THEYRE COMING FOR YOUR PRIDE
THEYRE COMING FOR YOUR MANHOOD
Clint Eastwood
Eff the Habs
