Proposal: All Bruins rumors/proposals: 16/17 Part III

[Gordon Lightfoot]

So your saying guys can't take advantage of their passing skills while playing the wing?

Do tell.

 

[Rumpy]

So your saying guys can't take advantage of their passing skills while playing the wing?

Do tell.

From Canada but never played hockey?

On ice vision and responsibilities from wing to centre are very different...

Just checked I can only find 3 times a winger has led the assists in NHL history a couple more of you count ties and know the guys before 1950. So unless Spooner is gunna re-write history books his most natural skill is suited for another position.

In conclusion yes wingers can take advantage of their passing skills on the wing but traditionally it looks more geared and natural for centres or dmen. If I check rocket Richard winners I bet wingers traditionally have higher goal scoring rates?

In your defense he can't win draws or play defense good enough to pass as an NHL centre though.

So here in lies Juliens conundrum. Is he good enough to excel or produce (out of his "natural" position) steady enough despite him having to make those adjustments to play in this league.

Which is all the poster was trying to project from what I read.

 

[Brucentric*]

Spooner with confidence is a heck of a player

He is, Thats why when you take a kid out of the position he has played all his life and done very well, and move him to a position he has never played. I would say that hurts someones confidence. Not to mention how it hurts the team.

 

[Brucentric*]

Originally Posted by BruinDust View Post
So your saying guys can't take advantage of their passing skills while playing the wing?

Do tell.

From Canada but never played hockey?

On ice vision and responsibilities from wing to centre are very different...

Just checked I can only find 3 times a winger has led the assists in NHL history a couple more of you count ties and know the guys before 1950. So unless Spooner is gunna re-write history books his most natural skill is suited for another position.

In conclusion yes wingers can take advantage of their passing skills on the wing but traditionally it looks more geared and natural for centres or dmen. If I check rocket Richard winners I bet wingers traditionally have higher goal scoring rates?

In your defense he can't win draws or play defense good enough to pass as an NHL centre though.

So here in lies Juliens conundrum. Is he good enough to excel or produce (out of his "natural" position) steady enough despite him having to make those adjustments to play in this league.

Which is all the poster was trying to project from what I read.

I guess he has never played hockey or just does not like the fact that i think Krug is highly over rated so he just wants to argue. That said, you are correct in his draws, He needs to get better there. The defense thing can be fixed with concentration and some good defensive minded wingers which i think they have.

Also, as a third line center the defensive part is slightly less important as you are not facing other top lines. But my point really is the kid had a fine year last year as a third line center which should have been built upon. Especially if the plan was not to play Backes there.

 

[BruinDust]

From Canada but never played hockey?

On ice vision and responsibilities from wing to centre are very different...

Just checked I can only find 3 times a winger has led the assists in NHL history a couple more of you count ties and know the guys before 1950. So unless Spooner is gunna re-write history books his most natural skill is suited for another position.

In conclusion yes wingers can take advantage of their passing skills on the wing but traditionally it looks more geared and natural for centres or dmen. If I check rocket Richard winners I bet wingers traditionally have higher goal scoring rates?

In your defense he can't win draws or play defense good enough to pass as an NHL centre though.

So here in lies Juliens conundrum. Is he good enough to excel or produce (out of his "natural" position) steady enough despite him having to make those adjustments to play in this league.

Which is all the poster was trying to project from what I read.

Which is exactly what I'm saying. Never said that play-making skills don't translate a bit better to center ice. Nor did I say the responsibilities were different.

But a good play-maker/passer is a good playmaker/passer regardless of what position they play. That's what were talking about here, not other responsibilities.

And seeing how you brought it up, played hockey for over 25 years now, coached a bit as well. I'm not expert but I know enough to know that hockey sense and vision is an asset whether a guy is a winger or a center, and optimizing that skill doesn't require a player to be a centerman. Hockey sense, vision, and creativity aren't position exclusive, that's not even a debate.

 

[Brucentric*]

Which is exactly what I'm saying. Never said that play-making skills don't translate a bit better to center ice. Nor did I say the responsibilities were different.

But a good play-maker/passer is a good playmaker/passer regardless of what position they play. That's what were talking about here, not other responsibilities.

And seeing how you brought it up, played hockey for over 25 years now, coached a bit as well. I'm not expert but I know enough to know that hockey sense and vision is an asset whether a guy is a winger or a center, and optimizing that skill doesn't require a player to be a centerman. Hockey sense, vision, and creativity aren't position exclusive, that's not even a debate.

When you put a guy on the wing who has never played there it is not an easy thing to do. Especially for a smaller guy not used to playing on the boards a lot. Spooner is a finesse player as well and probably not suited to play wing despite his passing ability. When you are a winger you are expected to go into corners more and play along the wall more. Not things Spoons has probably done in his life. That said when he is traded, i am sure the team that gets him will play him to his strength. Like we should be doing.

 

[BruinDust]

When you put a guy on the wing who has never played there it is not an easy thing to do. Especially for a smaller guy not used to playing on the boards a lot. Spooner is a finesse player as well and probably not suited to play wing despite his passing ability. When you are a winger you are expected to go into corners more and play along the wall more. Not things Spoons has probably done in his life. That said when he is traded, i am sure the team that gets him will play him to his strength. Like we should be doing.

In some cases, it's easier to convert for some than others. Wing is also an easier position to play, far more simplistic than center ice.

Spooner is a PPG player his last 9 games as a winger. And it's not like centermen never have board battles because they do. Perhaps not as much as a winger, but they still have to compete along the wall and in the corners. I'd argue board-work is even more important in the defensive zone for center-men now the way they are expected to defend below the goal line and behind their own net.

But as far as being able to utilize his playmaking ability, being a winger doesn't hamper that much.

 

[Rumpy]

Don't want to quote it all but playing centre vs wing is very different. The most being as a winger you're the dog chasing guys down to move or retreave the puck. As a centre you can read and react and get the puck from your wingers/dmen and you're defense is creating turnovers in open ice vs board work. Once you have the puck the vision and creativity is fine but eb and flow of the game is awful! Spooners hockey sense and vision make him great not his work ethic or board work.


As a winger You chase the game instead of anticipating it.

 

[JoeIsAStud]

I'd rather have Klefbom and would give Krug + Spooner.

I really like Klefbom, but man that is a whole lot of offensive skill for a team that struggles mightily on offense to give up.

 

[Danton Heineken]

Ray Whitney never had a problem with it. The only thing stopping Spooner from being Ray Whitney is himself.

 

[whatsbruin]

The crazy thing is... if healthy... And on our airtight team... my belief is halak puts up great numbers. I could easily see halak looking like a second coming of regie lemelin or manny fernandez

That contract though is killer. At the very least we need them to take Jimmy hayes but even that's not enough

Hayes, khubodin, and a conditional pick based on wins maybe?

We pay an extra 1.5 mill for our backup but we get a much better backup. And once he's rehabilitated he might have trade value next year if McIntyre is ready to replace him.

Waivers no... but trade maybe

I thought Manny Fernandez was bad, and or injured, for the B's.
I'm going to have to look back and see how he did.

One crappy year, one good year.

 

[PB37]

I see Trouba is being raised again in talks and we are in it but the source is not great. Still like to see something done before we get to close to the deadline for a legit #3 deeman to play with Krug. Time to bring up the Providence goalies for a shot, they are both playing well enough.

I would like Trouba also, but the Bruins surprising depth on the right side in the organization gives them a legitimate excuse to pause and check to see if it's worth giving up assets to acquire a player in a position that they're currently deep at.

On a somewhat side note: It's easy for keyboard warriors such as us to say " Dump McQuaid! ", " Bench Miller where he belongs! " or other easy statements because we're not near the pulse of the team. Look at what happened to the team when it traded Boychuk for futures and cap space: not only did it leave a hole in the lineup, it left a hole in the locker room that resonated over the season. On the flip side of that, who would we want moving forward right now heading towards the future: Boychuk or Carlo? I think the majority would want Carlo.

McQuaid is a positive fixture in that locker room and his teammates love him. That shouldn't prevent him from being traded, but it certainly needs to be considered when looking to move a player that's worked himself to be a respected member of the team's leadership core and one of the longest tenured Bruin. It's a business and players know this - but there's a human factor as well and if handled wrong, it could have a negative affect on a team that's looking to band together to make the playoffs.

I like the toughness and leadership traits that McQuaid and KMiller have. They lay it all out on the line for their team physically and among the first to step in for their teammates. That wins a lot of support from teammates, coaches, and mangement. I'll be the first to say I'm a fan of both guys and want to see them remain and win, but to ignore upgrading when there's an opportunity to do so is also detrimental to a team's ultimate success.

If you pointed a gun at my head, I would say that right now, I don't think a trade for a blueliner is necessary.

 

[JAD]

I would like Trouba also, but the Bruins surprising depth on the right side in the organization gives them a legitimate excuse to pause and check to see if it's worth giving up assets to acquire a player in a position that they're currently deep at.

On a somewhat side note: It's easy for keyboard warriors such as us to say " Dump McQuaid! ", " Bench Miller where he belongs! " or other easy statements because we're not near the pulse of the team. Look at what happened to the team when it traded Boychuk for futures and cap space: not only did it leave a hole in the lineup, it left a hole in the locker room that resonated over the season. On the flip side of that, who would we want moving forward right now heading towards the future: Boychuk or Carlo? I think the majority would want Carlo.

McQuaid is a positive fixture in that locker room and his teammates love him. That shouldn't prevent him from being traded, but it certainly needs to be considered when looking to move a player that's worked himself to be a respected member of the team's leadership core and one of the longest tenured Bruin. It's a business and players know this - but there's a human factor as well and if handled wrong, it could have a negative affect on a team that's looking to band together to make the playoffs.

I like the toughness and leadership traits that McQuaid and KMiller have. They lay it all out on the line for their team physically and among the first to step in for their teammates. That wins a lot of support from teammates, coaches, and mangement. I'll be the first to say I'm a fan of both guys and want to see them remain and win, but to ignore upgrading when there's an opportunity to do so is also detrimental to a team's ultimate success.

If you pointed a gun at my head, I would say that right now, I don't think a trade for a blueliner is necessary.

Your post made me stop and consider the timing of a trade.
Trading an established player just before the start or during the season, if the team is thinking about or is contending, the GM better make darn sure the are getting an established player back in the trade that can help improve the team. Not doing so, as you said, leaves a hole and make it that much harder on those remaining.

If you are going to trade an established player for prospects or picks it is probably best to do that early in the off season. Doing so gives the rest of the team time to adjust to what has happened. No pressure to win right at that moment.

So just my opinion, but if a GM were to trade a player in season they better get someone back that can help right away and hopefully improve the team. Players want to win and they know any improvement is going to cost in some way, but to leave them with nothing can create disharmony. It's like cut backs at work, someone is let go - now you have to do your job plus theirs.

Of course a teams selling at the deadline is a different situation, but that is not what is being discussed.

 

[PlayMakers]

I would agree, but then again if you dont want to use the kid in his natural position to take advantage of his passing skills.....Then trade him. Biggest mistake Julien has mad this season is not having him as the 3rd center on this team in my opinion.

I don't agree. I wanted him converted to wing when he was in Providence and I was probably his biggest supporter when he was a prospect.

I think that's the direction the game is going. Speed/skill on the wings to take advantage of the quick outs and stretch plays. Size/strength down the middle to help you win possession in your own zone so you can spend less time on defense.

I'm in the same place I was with Spooner before his recent run.

You don't give him away by any means. But for the right deal, you move him.

Emphasis on the right deal. Which likely isn't coming so he stays. And if he stays and he can put up decent numbers (say 0.75 PPG), then it's all good.

What, in your opinion, is the right deal?

 

[PlayMakers]

When you put a guy on the wing who has never played there it is not an easy thing to do. Especially for a smaller guy not used to playing on the boards a lot. Spooner is a finesse player as well and probably not suited to play wing despite his passing ability. When you are a winger you are expected to go into corners more and play along the wall more. Not things Spoons has probably done in his life. That said when he is traded, i am sure the team that gets him will play him to his strength. Like we should be doing.

I don't agree at all.

IMO, the kind of hockey you're talking about is long gone.

Nowadays, there are no positions once you cross the red line with possession. No position is "expected" to do more board work than any other position. The offensive schemes that are taught today, from kids to college to the pros, revolve around pressure and support.

The guy who is "expected to go into the corners" is whoever happens to be closest to the puck. The guy who carries the puck through the neutral zone, is the highest guy on the breakout, and in today's game, that's usually the backside winger.

There isn't a team in the NHL that sends their center out as the high guy on a breakout. Every single team expects their centers to stay low and support the D.

 

[Ratty]

Interesting, though lengthy, article by Fox Sports on the current Bruins state of affairs.

www.foxsports.com/nhl/story/boston-bruins-how-the-bruins-can-escape-hockey-purgatory-122916

 

[AK37]

That Boychuk trade brought the Bruins Carlo and Lindgren who has looked excellent for Team USA at the World Jrs

Both of these players could/should be pillars of the Bruins defense soon along with McAvoy, Zboril and Lauzon

It is going to take 2 or 3 years to get there.....but the Bruins are LOADED with young defenseman

Carlo, McAvoy, Lauzon, Zboril, Lindgren, O'Gara, Grzelcyk, C. Miller, Morrow, Krug.....they can afford to use one or two of these guys as a piece in a trade, or just be patient and build your D around this grouping going forward and really focus on forward talent in the next draft or two

This team right now is not on the cusp of winning a cup or reaching the conference finals....I do whatever I have to do if I am Sweeney to hold on to my young talent and build around these players

F - Marchand, Bergeron, Pastrnak, Senyshyn, Bjork, Debrusk, Frederic, Donato
D - Carlo, McAvoy, Zboril, Lauzon, Lindgren

 

[PlayMakers]

That Boychuk trade brought the Bruins Carlo and Lindgren who has looked excellent for Team USA at the World Jrs

Both of these players could/should be pillars of the Bruins defense soon along with McAvoy, Zboril and Lauzon

It is going to take 2 or 3 years to get there.....but the Bruins are LOADED with young defenseman

Carlo, McAvoy, Lauzon, Zboril, Lindgren, O'Gara, Grzelcyk, C. Miller, Morrow, Krug.....they can afford to use one or two of these guys as a piece in a trade, or just be patient and build your D around this grouping going forward and really focus on forward talent in the next draft or two

This team right now is not on the cusp of winning a cup or reaching the conference finals....I do whatever I have to do if I am Sweeney to hold on to my young talent and build around these players

F - Marchand, Bergeron, Pastrnak, Senyshyn, Bjork, Debrusk, Frederic, Donato
D - Carlo, McAvoy, Zboril, Lauzon, Lindgren

I think Emil Johansson is going to sneak up on people too. I've been pumping his tires for two years now. He's a top20 scoring D in the SHL, and just turned 20. I actually like his game better than Zboril's.

I was thinking about a right side of McAvoy, Carlo and Colin Miller. That's pretty nice!
And the left side just has Krug and I think, 10 guys who have shown enough minor success to think they have a chance. Of course, not all these guys will pan out but the flip side of the law of averages is that someone from that group of 10 will surprise and surpass expectations.

Up front, you forgot about JFK who's a very poised/smart player, not unlike Heinen, who you also left off your list!

All that said, there is almost too much talent there. I'm sure the aforementioned law of averages will thin the herd out some, but Gryz looks close, O'Gara looks close, and there are guys who are behind them in development but have higher upside coming along. Up front. Marchand, Pasta, Spooner and Vatrano have 4 of the 6 top9 wing spots locked up, but Heinen is close. Cehlarik? DeBrusk? Bjork? There are going to be a lot of bodies competing for a handful of spots...

My long-winded point, is that I'd consider bundling a couple of these guys if I could get a core player in return. Maybe a wing who can finish or someone with the upside to replace Chara as the top-pair defensive presence.

 

[bruinmann77]

build up through the draft the young defense looks to be very promising. I hope we find another sniper like Pasta in the draft

 

[AK37]

I think Emil Johansson is going to sneak up on people too. I've been pumping his tires for two years now. He's a top20 scoring D in the SHL, and just turned 20. I actually like his game better than Zboril's.

I was thinking about a right side of McAvoy, Carlo and Colin Miller. That's pretty nice!
And the left side just has Krug and I think, 10 guys who have shown enough minor success to think they have a chance. Of course, not all these guys will pan out but the flip side of the law of averages is that someone from that group of 10 will surprise and surpass expectations.

Up front, you forgot about JFK who's a very poised/smart player, not unlike Heinen, who you also left off your list!

All that said, there is almost too much talent there. I'm sure the aforementioned law of averages will thin the herd out some, but Gryz looks close, O'Gara looks close, and there are guys who are behind them in development but have higher upside coming along. Up front. Marchand, Pasta, Spooner and Vatrano have 4 of the 6 top9 wing spots locked up, but Heinen is close. Cehlarik? DeBrusk? Bjork? There are going to be a lot of bodies competing for a handful of spots...

My long-winded point, is that I'd consider bundling a couple of these guys if I could get a core player in return. Maybe a wing who can finish or someone with the upside to replace Chara as the top-pair defensive presence.

Yeah.....totally forgot about JFK and Vatrano...and Cehlarik is having a damn good season in Providence....the point of my post was exactly what you said, we have a lot of bodies competing for spots and this team is not on the cusp of a cup run (maybe 2 or 3 years away from being a legit threat....depending on trades and free agent acquisitions)

The plan now has to be identify who you want to build the core around and who you are willing to part ways with in the right trade.....then they need to stay the course and focus on building a roster that can give you a 5 to 8 year window

If we are not tranding upwards and looking like a legit playoff team at the trading deadline - I think they have to try like hell to trade any or all of Chara, Krejci, Beleskey, Backes, K Miller, McQuaid, Liles, Moore and take whatever prospects/picks you can get and use those assets to continue to build the young core of this team

Krejci, Chara, Backes - teams that have serious chances at an extended playoff run would certainly be looking to add these types of players....especially teams that have never won or have not won in a long time

K. Miller, McQuaid, Liles, Moore, Beleskey - these guys could also have value at the deadline when playoff teams are looking to add pieces to solidify their roster without paying through the nose....while the Bruins could shed salary and still get useful prospects/picks that can be used or packaged in another trade

This is the year that they HAVE TO clean house if they are what they have been the last two seasons.....you can't afford to keep these guys and trade young players or picks to add guys like Stempniak/Liles in an effort to reach the #8 seed.....Sweeney has a golden opportunity to turn a very good prospect pool and bright future into an incredible prospect pool to go along with a young talented roster within a couple years

 

[lucic27]

I propose a trade that would be successful in the short and long term

Gabriel Landeskog 24 yrs 6 ft 1 210 lbs captain = leader, strong player,scorer no fraid,

4 saisons 20 goal +

A J Greer prospect 20 years 6 ft 3 204 lbs futur left wing star ( 25 goals 30 goals)

( Spooner ,Vatrano ,hayes +1 pick )

Marchand Bergeron Pastrnak

Landeskog Kreci Backes

Belesky czarnik A J Greer

Schaller Moore Nash

dont forget 2017 2018 las vegas teams extention the bruins rules protect 7 foward

3 d man 1 goaler or 2 rules 8 players foward defense and 1 goaler

any players no movement close automaitc protect list

Belesky no movement close finish contract 3.900 m no protect replace for jake de

brusk AJ Greer no eligible carlo no eligible pastrnak maybe

rebuilt the team now dump the salary hayes , belesky

question who is the best landeskog or( vatrano and spooner)

Think about all this line up marchand bergeron pastrnak
Landeskog Kreci Backes
Beleskey Czarnick AJ Greer
Schaller Moore Nash

Chara Carlo
Krug Mcquaid
Morrow Miller and Miller


You improve your team in size and scorer and if you play against a club that wants to brew like buffalo other day you dress kevin miller like right wing 4 line and 6 7 defenseman

what do you think !!

 

[Pia8988]

Sure Landeskog would be great for the Bruins, but you're not getting him for that. They need LHD so that means Krug, however they have Barrie, so maybe they want one of the LHD prospects, but they won't be as valuable.

 

[bob27]

Would probably take Carlo+ to get Landeskog, although maybe Carlo's local boy status would up his trade value for Colorado. Prospect cupboards are starting to overflow a bit, so it might not be a terrible idea to unload some high picks for a guy like Landeskog. He'd be a great long term winger for Krejci.

 

[chizzler]

Would probably take Carlo+ to get Landeskog, although maybe Carlo's local boy status would up his trade value for Colorado. Prospect cupboards are starting to overflow a bit, so it might not be a terrible idea to unload some high picks for a guy like Landeskog. He'd be a great long term winger for Krejci.

Too early with this, the defense doesn't have the young turnover yet. They don't know what they have with the back line still. Maybe a couple of years before they have an understanding of the worth of their drafting.

 

[Brucentric*]

Sure Landeskog would be great for the Bruins, but you're not getting him for that. They need LHD so that means Krug, however they have Barrie, so maybe they want one of the LHD prospects, but they won't be as valuable.

I would drive Krug to Colorado if they would take him in a deal for Landeskog. But not putting Vatrano in that deal.....Plus nobody wants Hayes even as a throw in.