All—Time IIHF Team. Do Soviets deserve to have a 4 players? Only ONE Canadian! (Wayne Gretzky)
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Surprisingly only one Canadian, and four (!!!) Soviet players in All—Time team.
Obviously Canadians don't care about International/IIHF things... But what do Canadians think about this?
Obviously Canadians don't care about International/IIHF things... But what do Canadians think about this?
Coffee
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Why surprisingly? Gretzky and Salming don't belong, but evidently they didn't want to do an all-Soviet team. Still, the joke is having zero Czechoslovak players.
I mean NHL used not to send their players there and Northern Americans used not to value International hockey back then. Even today it's less valued than Stanley Cup.
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The Panther
Registered User
This list came out 16 years ago, so it's kind of old news....
Being as the list is from the international (i.e., non-NHL, basically European) hockey perspective, it's not bonkers. Tretiak, Fetisov, Makarov, and Gretzky are all reasonable choices from that perspective. Kharlamov, maybe, but perhaps he got the "legacy" / "sympathy" nod a bit, too.
Salming stands out as the least impressive (though he was excellent, both internationally and NHL). It's interesting that even from the European perspective, he was more impressive (in 2008, anyway) than, say, Lidstrom.
As to having 4 Russians / Soviets... er, yeah, it's a bit much.
I wonder if the IIHF did this list again today, how different would it be? One would think Ovechkin would take a winger's spot, but his international-hockey reputation isn't very great. McDavid has barely played any international hockey at all.
Being as the list is from the international (i.e., non-NHL, basically European) hockey perspective, it's not bonkers. Tretiak, Fetisov, Makarov, and Gretzky are all reasonable choices from that perspective. Kharlamov, maybe, but perhaps he got the "legacy" / "sympathy" nod a bit, too.
Salming stands out as the least impressive (though he was excellent, both internationally and NHL). It's interesting that even from the European perspective, he was more impressive (in 2008, anyway) than, say, Lidstrom.
As to having 4 Russians / Soviets... er, yeah, it's a bit much.
I wonder if the IIHF did this list again today, how different would it be? One would think Ovechkin would take a winger's spot, but his international-hockey reputation isn't very great. McDavid has barely played any international hockey at all.
From a European perspective Salming is not a top 10 international player for Sweden, doesn't really even seriously belong in the discussion.
Gretzky was great at the Canada Cups, but otherwise he's got next to nothing. At least by now Crosby would be a far better Canadian choice.
Gretzky was great at the Canada Cups, but otherwise he's got next to nothing. At least by now Crosby would be a far better Canadian choice.
The Panther
Registered User
He also led the World Junior Tournament in scoring (as the youngest player) in 1977-78, and he was the leading scorer at the 1982 World Championships in Europe.
In sum:
1978 World Juniors
-- leading scorer
1981 Canada Cup
-- leading scorer
1984 Canada Cup
-- leading scorer
1987 Canada Cup
-- leading scorer
1991 Canada Cup
-- leading scorer
...and you think Crosby is a better choice? That's insane.
No way. There are many more Soviet players who were better in International competitions than Ovi.
Crosby won the World Juniors, the World Championships, the Olympics, even the World Cup. Has won all of the senior competitions as the team captain and personally secured the 2010 Olympic gold medal with his iconic OT game-winning goal.
Gretzky has a bronze medal at the World Juniors as well as at the World Championships, and a 4th place at the Olympics. That's not a greatest of all time international résumé. The Canada Cup alone is a tiny part of international hockey.
If you watched those Soviet teams dominate international competition back in those days, I would find it hard to argue even against just having the top-5 be their full first unit... they were on a different level.
Imagine stacking one NHL team with all the Canadian top players and then sending that team to international competitions, that's not too far off from what the Soviets did.
The individual Soviet players probably don't get the recognition they deserve because none of them played in the west during their peak years, Makarov, Larionov and Fetisov were in their 30s when they finally entered the NHL.
Imagine stacking one NHL team with all the Canadian top players and then sending that team to international competitions, that's not too far off from what the Soviets did.
The individual Soviet players probably don't get the recognition they deserve because none of them played in the west during their peak years, Makarov, Larionov and Fetisov were in their 30s when they finally entered the NHL.
Sykur
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Canada Cups weren't IIHF tournaments, they were run by the NHLPA.
They were sanctioned by the IIHF so presumably they included performances in the Canada Cups in their assessments.
The Panther
Registered User
Yes, and....?
It's funny, I always thought hockey games were won by teams, not individuals. It's good to learn that Crosby individually won the 2010 Olympics.
When you're playing for Team Canada there's not much excuse for not doing well.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
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JPT
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The USSR had the most dominant hockey team in the world, ever, so yeah it makes sense they have four players on the squad.
The Panther
Registered User
No, but it doesn't matter. If you read the blurb off the top, it specifically lists the Canada Cup tournament as part of its consideration. Hence, Gretzky was selected.
JPT
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Oddbob
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You are full of it. Gretzky only got to be at one Olympics, cause the NHL only started competing at the Olympics in 1998. Gretzky was 37 during that time in his second last season in the league. You really think if Wayne played at the Olympics in his prime he doesn't easily win Gold? He was far and away a better player than Crosby. As is he had 4 pts in 6 games, which isn't that bad considering it was very defensive era.
Voight
#winning
Crosby played on arguably the best World Junior Team of all time. Also Gretzky lead the WC in points when he went, Sid was 5th on the team.
The World Championships in Gretzky's day were also a lot different than the ones we have today, and he was going upon against powerhouses like the USSR.
& in 1998, Gretzky was in his second last season and not the player he used to be. SO it wasn't his fault Canada finished 4th.
Canada Cup is not a tiny part of international hockey. For 20 years it was the only true best on best tournament in the world. Olympics were a joke back then with the IIHF allowing shamateurs to play and refusing to allow NHL players.
Canada had a good team at the WJC '78, could definitely have reached the final over Sweden even if the Soviets were too much. At the World Championships '82 they had a very strong team and would have won silver simply by beating Italy, yet they failed to do that as well. At the World Cup '96 losing to the Americans three times wasn't a disgrace, but those games were perfectly winnable as well. Being kicked out of the medals by Ari Sulander in '98 was quite something, but only confirmed the trend outside the in themselves impressive Canada Cup performances. None of that is all on Gretzky, but when you have Crosby winning everything it's not hard to figure out which is more impressive.
Bouboumaster
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