Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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I dont think it was ever that high, but he was mentioned in the matthews, mackinnon tier before his draft.
That was very hopeful for sure. McKinnon was an elite skater. Mathew was an elite shooter. When I watch Laf I as a fan do not know which skill of his I view as elite. Which physical skills would you have at the top of Lafs list?
 
Disagree that he was thought of to have all time great potential, at least anywhere I saw including on these boards. I agree and specifically remember Mathews/McKinnon tier. Thats still a high tier but its not godlike - as in Crosby/Mcdavid ect.

Speaking of Mckinnon, he was a player who needed a a few seasons to get his shit together. Not saying Laf will ever be that good, just saying it is common for even a high tier of prospect to need a few seasons of adjustment/seasoning to really hit.
MacKinnon had 63pts his rookie season, he was also over a full calendar year younger than Laf was (if Laf was born 2 weeks earlier he would've been in the 2019 draft, if MacK was born 2 weeks later he would've been in the 2014 draft; then Lafs season started in January of the following year instead of October)

MacK had 153pts through his age 18-20 seasons, Laf had 91pts through his age 19-21 seasons.
 
Disagree that he was thought of to have all time great potential, at least anywhere I saw including on these boards. I agree and specifically remember Mathews/McKinnon tier. Thats still a high tier but its not godlike - as in Crosby/Mcdavid ect.

Speaking of Mckinnon, he was a player who needed a a few seasons to get his shit together. Not saying Laf will ever be that good, just saying it is not uncommon for even a high tier of prospect to need a few seasons of adjustment/seasoning to really hit.

Lol. Mac's worst season being younger than Laf and with a broken foot while missing 18 games was one point less than Laf's best season at 81 games and a healthy scratch.
 
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What I am doing is hoping so many draft experts could not have been so wrong. That it will just take some time. That if Laf puts in the effort his game will mature. I could see some improvement coming from both his skating and shooting so I remain hopeful. My biggest fear is some athletes in all sports feel they made it once they reach the pros and the effort level it took for them to get there declines.
 
MacKinnon had 63pts his rookie season, he was also over a full calendar year younger than Laf was (if Laf was born 2 weeks earlier he would've been in the 2019 draft, if MacK was born 2 weeks later he would've been in the 2014 draft; then Lafs season started in January of the following year instead of October)

MacK had 153pts through his age 18-20 seasons, Laf had 91pts through his age 19-21 seasons.

Lol. Mac's worst season being younger than Laf and with a broken foot while missing 18 games was one point less than Laf's best season at 81 games and a healthy scratch.
Again I specifically said I wasn't saying Laf is going to be McKinnon. No one thought McKinnon had reached his potential until he had his breakout season in his 5th season where he had 97 points. The parallel I am drawing is that hes one of the best players on the planet right now and his first 4 seasons he was not. He was underperforming to his draft position. Plenty of examples of this happening where players end up being good.

This is all just to refute the original claim that just because McDavid and Crosby were good in their first seasons that somehow Laffy is now 100% a bust. My argument is that it is too early to tell, Nate is just one example of a guy who took a little longer than expected.
 
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Lol. Mac's worst season being younger than Laf and with a broken foot while missing 18 games was one point less than Laf's best season at 81 games and a healthy scratch.
Mackinnon in his worst season put up 38 points in 64 games, he was also getting 17 minutes of ice time.
Laf in his best season put up 39 points in 81 games, with only 15:13 of ice time per game.
Laf only had an extra 200 minutes of ice time total.
After that subpar year.

in his d+3 year Mackinnon put up 52 points 21/31/52 in 18:52 of ice time over 72 games ES that was 14/21
in his d+3 year Laf put up 39 points 16/23/39 in 15:13 minutes of ice time over 81 games . ES that was 13/22

LAF IS FINE!
 
For me, this is the year for Laf. Regardless of how many years we sign him for, if we don’t see some significant improvement his time here is done. And it may be the only thing that will salvage his career. Yes, it would suck to see him blossom elsewhere, but he simply seems entirely too comfortable and being sold off 4 years after being 1OA may be the only thing that’s going to get him to take his career seriously.

I said it somewhere else but I think that WJC gold and MVP and going 1OA was somehow the top of the mountain for Laf. For Crosby, McDavid, what we see and hear from Bedard so far, they all seemed to understand that going 1OA was akin to making it to Everestbase camp. Sure, it’s more than most ever accomplish but it’s just the start of the climb. For Laf, it has felt like he already feels he’s been to the summit.
 
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Disagree that he was thought of to have all time great potential, at least anywhere I saw including on these boards. I agree and specifically remember Mathews/McKinnon tier. Thats still a high tier but its not godlike - as in Crosby/Mcdavid ect.

Speaking of Mckinnon, he was a player who needed a a few seasons to get his shit together. Not saying Laf will ever be that good, just saying it is not uncommon for even a high tier of prospect to need a few seasons of adjustment/seasoning to really hit.
But McKinnon could ALWAYS skate like the wind. He just needed to get his head and hands to catch up with the wheels.

For me, this is the year for Laf. Regardless of how many years we sign him for, if we don’t see some significant improvement his time here is done. And it may be the only thing that will salvage his career. Yes, it would suck to see him blossom elsewhere, but he simply seems entirely too comfortable and being sold off 4 years after being 1OA may be the only thing that’s going to get him to take his career seriously.

I said it somewhere else but I think that WJC gold and MVP and going 1OA was somehow the top of the mountain for Laf. For Crosby, McDavid, what we see and hear from Bedard so far, they all seemed to understand that going 1OA was akin to making to Everett base camp. Sure, it’s more than most ever accomplish but it’s just the start of the climb. For Laf, it has felt like he already felt he’d been to the summit.
To me last season was the year to show me. I was solely on board with this guy until prob Jan of this year.

Dog shit playoffs were an embarrassment.
 
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But McKinnon could ALWAYS skate like the wind. He just needed to get his head and hands to catch up with the wheels.


To me last season was the year to show me. I was solely on board with this guy until prob Jan of this year.

Dog shit playoffs were an embarrassment.
Wrong to single out Laf when the whole team had a terrible first round.
We got exposed by the devils.
The kids got exposed, the vets got exposed.
The only one who didn’t suck was Igor.
 
For me, this is the year for Laf. Regardless of how many years we sign him for, if we don’t see some significant improvement his time here is done. And it may be the only thing that will salvage his career. Yes, it would suck to see him blossom elsewhere, but he simply seems entirely too comfortable and being sold off 4 years after being 1OA may be the only thing that’s going to get him to take his career seriously.

I said it somewhere else but I think that WJC gold and MVP and going 1OA was somehow the top of the mountain for Laf. For Crosby, McDavid, what we see and hear from Bedard so far, they all seemed to understand that going 1OA was akin to making to Everett base camp. Sure, it’s more than most ever accomplish but it’s just the start of the climb. For Laf, it has felt like he already felt he’d been to the summit.
This is great. And the typo is making me picture Laf having a hard time making the Silvertips.
 
Even if that’s what you want, Laf should be here for it. It’s Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider, Trouba and Goodrow who should move.

Know what's funny? Goodrow and Trouba were less than 10 points in matching Laf for the season. That's it for funny.

You want to give #1, #2, and #5 in team scoring the boot? Okay. Who are we replacing them with? When the core of vets are off this team, who do you want stepping up? The kids who struggle to make ends meet against bottom 6'ers in the NHL? More rentals?

I want change more than anything on this team, but once the vet core goes then we will be officially in a rebuild and simultaneously ruining years of Shesty's potential. This year we will try to make a cup run with an entirely new staff, little team cohesion, and rentals aplenty. I'm expecting nothing this year and even less afterwards.
 
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Know what's funny? Goodrow and Trouba were less than 10 points in matching Laf for the season. That's it for funny.

You want to give #1, #2, and #5 in team scoring the boot? Okay. Who are we replacing them with? When the core of vets are off this team, who do you want stepping up? The kids who struggle to make ends meet against bottom 6'ers in the NHL? More rentals?

I want change more than anything on this team, but once the vet core goes then we will be officially in a rebuild and simultaneously ruining years of Shesty's potential. This year we will try to make a cup run with an entirely new staff, little team cohesion, and rentals aplenty. I'm expecting nothing this year and even less afterwards.

Expecting nothing ?!? It’ll be 30 years without a cup next summer! I’m sure MSG will put together something nice to commemorate the futility.
 
Know what's funny? Goodrow and Trouba were less than 10 points in matching Laf for the season. That's it for funny.

You want to give #1, #2, and #5 in team scoring the boot? Okay. Who are we replacing them with? When the core of vets are off this team, who do you want stepping up? The kids who struggle to make ends meet against bottom 6'ers in the NHL? More rentals?

I want change more than anything on this team, but once the vet core goes then we will be officially in a rebuild and simultaneously ruining years of Shesty's potential. This year we will try to make a cup run with an entirely new staff, little team cohesion, and rentals aplenty. I'm expecting nothing this year and even less afterwards.
Yes because clearly goodrow has it in him to be a 70 point player.

Im not sure I agree with the discussion about moving both panarin and kreider, but opening a lw spot is attractive, as well as freeing up cap space.

If you move panarin you get 11 million in cap space.
If the rangers had found a taker for panarin (without retention or bad contracts coming back) they could've made an offer to tarasenko, and offered both laf and key long term deals, in addition to all the moves that were made.

I 100% understand the reluctance to trust the kids with anything under the guise of "they have to earn it". But absolutely no 1st overall pick aside from Laf has ever had to "earn it".

The rangers future will be determined by how far the kids can take them. This past post season was the written report of how far panarin and mika and fox can take them.

If laviolette can get laf to a 70 point player, and kakko to a 60 pt 2 way monster, without a backslide from anyone else. The rangers are a top contender so long as we can manage contracts properly.

We would have a 1c, 4 top line wingers, 2 2c's, Our top 4 d all properly slotted, and a vezina candidate.
 
You want to give #1, #2, and #5 in team scoring the boot? Okay. Who are we replacing them with? When the core of vets are off this team, who do you want stepping up? The kids who struggle to make ends meet against bottom 6'ers in the NHL? More rentals?

The point of the rebuild isn't to care about the next 2-3 seasons, but to rebuild properly. The "fastest rebuild in NHL" and the prior "rebuild on the fly" is how you get 1 Cup in 83 years, and counting. The Rangers stumbled upon tons of talent (Leetch, Amonte, Weight, Richter, Zubov) and a lot of it was dumped for a single real Cup run that fortunately worked out. It's a once in a century strike of luck. It won't happen again in our lifetime.

We can keep trying to make the playoffs every year or we can rebuild the proper way for once. It's worth a try doing something different instead of the same old way where we attempt to make the playoffs every year.

In 2020, there shouldn't have been Panarin and Kreider should've been dealt away for a first round pick plus a prospect or two. The year before that, we should've had a second 1st round pick instead of dealing it away for Trouba. Trade Strome at his peak. Draft someone way earlier than Othman in 2021. Have a first in 2022.

Some picks will bust, some will underwhelm, but having 3 more firsts and having an earlier selection in 2021, I bet at least one would've succeeded as a top player on an ELC. Instead we're back to square 1 with aging vets surrounded by not enough youth. And again we wonder what about happen next season if the vets are dealt for future.

Panarin, Zib, Trochek, Kreider, Goodrow and Trouba need to go. If we can get assets for them, great. If not, even to clear the cap space while getting an earlier draft pick the next 3 seasons.
 
The point of the rebuild isn't to care about the next 2-3 seasons, but to rebuild properly. The "fastest rebuild in NHL" and the prior "rebuild on the fly" is how you get 1 Cup in 83 years, and counting. The Rangers stumbled upon tons of talent (Leetch, Amonte, Weight, Richter, Zubov) and a lot of it was dumped for a single real Cup run that fortunately worked out. It's a once in a century strike of luck. It won't happen again in our lifetime.

We can keep trying to make the playoffs every year or we can rebuild the proper way for once. It's worth a try doing something different instead of the same old way where we attempt to make the playoffs every year.

In 2020, there shouldn't have been Panarin and Kreider should've been dealt away for a first round pick plus a prospect or two. The year before that, we should've had a second 1st round pick instead of dealing it away for Trouba. Trade Strome at his peak. Draft someone way earlier than Othman in 2021. Have a first in 2022.

Some picks will bust, some will underwhelm, but having 3 more firsts and having an earlier selection in 2021, I bet at least one would've succeeded as a top player on an ELC. Instead we're back to square 1 with aging vets surrounded by not enough youth. And again we wonder what about happen next season if the vets are dealt for future.

Panarin, Zib, Trochek, Kreider, Goodrow and Trouba need to go. If we can get assets for them, great. If not, even to clear the cap space while getting an earlier draft pick the next 3 seasons.
No- just no. The point of a rebuild is to get the team back to the point where they can compete for a cup— not strip it down to nothing to allow AHL and fringe NHL players time. This notion that you can’t have a core and try and build around that core is just wrong.

The issue of course, with rebuilding is the young guys need to actually do something. Outside of Fox, the entire young group of skaters( not including Igor who has been incredible) has been bad, underperforming or at best, inconsistent. Yet there are still people like the poster I’m replying to who think a total rip apart is the way to go. Just don’t get it— you’d have to trust the same group of player development clowns this organization has had a whole heck of a lot to even try a rebuild and I sure don’t!
 
That was very hopeful for sure. McKinnon was an elite skater. Mathew was an elite shooter. When I watch Laf I as a fan do not know which skill of his I view as elite. Which physical skills would you have at the top of Lafs list?
laf has elite hands and hockey iq, he just hasn't put it all together at this level yet. you see signs of it all the time with him though, and prior to the nhl it was dominant with it. he's had the couple highlight reel goals but there's also been a lot of examples of him carrying the puck walking guys and quick moves in tight areas down low.

a lot of what he does best gets overlooked because it hasn't directly led to points yet, but he's a top 2 passer on the team, and personally i think he's got the best awareness. he probably got robbed of at least 15 points last year with setup passes to someone....usually chytil...who invented a way to not score. it's there though....he's fantastic at reading the play and using deception to create lanes that results in far less turnovers than a guy like panarin. also watch him receive passes...no matter how hard, off target, or handcuffed he almost always controls pucks, and quickly where he's ready to make the next play. he hasn't built up his confidence at the nhl level yet obviously, and he's still got to add some explosiveness to really break out, but the skills are there for him to do so. a lot of people overlook them because the results they want aren't there, but he's not far from being really good. he also needs to get his shot back, he has a nasty shot but needs to work on getting it off faster and again, confidence.

mackinnon should be an example for him, not comparing them, but mackinnon's true breakout came after he fully committed to his diet and off ice/offseason work which included leaning out a lot. laf would help himself a lot leaning out and putting in more offseason work in general. huberdeau is probably a closer comparison, esp w/ timeline, for the player he can be. laf is more suited physically and mentally for playoff hockey though. giving up on him would be insane....look at when mika began to play to his potential, or a guy like tage thompson. it doesn't always happen right away.
 
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laf has elite hands and hockey iq, he just hasn't put it all together at this level yet. you see signs of it all the time with him though, and prior to the nhl it was dominant with it. he's had the couple highlight reel goals but there's also been a lot of examples of him carrying the puck walking guys and quick moves in tight areas down low.

a lot of what he does best gets overlooked because it hasn't directly led to points yet, but he's a top 2 passer on the team, and personally i think he's got the best awareness. he probably got robbed of at least 15 points last year with setup passes to someone....usually chytil...who invented a way to not score. it's there though....he's fantastic at reading the play and using deception to create lanes that results in far less turnovers than a guy like panarin. also watch him receive passes...no matter how hard, off target, or handcuffed he almost always controls pucks, and quickly where he's ready to make the next play. he hasn't built up his confidence at the nhl level yet obviously, and he's still got to add some explosiveness to really break out, but the skills are there for him to do so. a lot of people overlook them because the results they want aren't there, but he's not far from being really good. he also needs to get his shot back, he has a nasty shot but needs to work on getting it off faster and again, confidence.

mackinnon should be an example for him, not comparing them, but mackinnon's true breakout came after he fully committed to his diet and off ice/offseason work which included leaning out a lot. laf would help himself a lot leaning out and putting in more offseason work in general. huberdeau is probably a closer comparison, esp w/ timeline, for the player he can be. laf is more suited physically and mentally for playoff hockey though. giving up on him would be insane....look at when mika began to play to his potential, or a guy like tage thompson. it doesn't always happen right away.
Im one of the few that is not obsessed with stats. I just want to be able to say wow that guy is a really good player who is really impacting his shifts. I think Lafs season two was a step in the right direction while season three was a wasted season. Hopefully he is working hard this offseason so that season four becomes what we all hope for from Laf. Just showing up at training camp will not be enough imo.
 
I don’t want to put any stock at all into social media but you’d think someone like Laf, who has been a disappointment in multiple ways, would be going out of his way to at least try to build a “brand” in an attempt to rehab his value. Even if you’re not putting in the work, make it look like you are so that people stop thinking you’re an immature, non serious person.

As they say in life about perception vs reality, people that care don't matter, and those that matter don't care.
 
That was very hopeful for sure. McKinnon was an elite skater. Mathew was an elite shooter. When I watch Laf I as a fan do not know which skill of his I view as elite. Which physical skills would you have at the top of Lafs list?

I keep pointing this out but both Kakko and Lafreniere were power forward types all through their careers, until they can physically impose themselves on other teams their true skills and values will always seem lesser. Kakko took a step last year, hopefully he does again, and Lafreniere will likely take a step in that direction as well given his age. These types of players usually take longer, kinda like dmen. A lot of people forget that at their age Fox was still not in the NHL....patience people
 
I think we just need to level set to the idea that we got our draft lottery luck during weak drafts and that there wasn’t an obvious generational talent there so instead we got 2 what will be good players
 
I think we just need to level set to the idea that we got our draft lottery luck during weak drafts and that there wasn’t an obvious generational talent there so instead we got 2 what will be good players

Still think he's 21 years old and that his game requires development of strength and speed to be effective. He's nearly here. He's taking a bit longer because he had a skating issue.
 
I keep pointing this out but both Kakko and Lafreniere were power forward types all through their careers, until they can physically impose themselves on other teams their true skills and values will always seem lesser. Kakko took a step last year, hopefully he does again, and Lafreniere will likely take a step in that direction as well given his age. These types of players usually take longer, kinda like dmen. A lot of people forget that at their age Fox was still not in the NHL....patience people
I have alot of patience as long as I see the effort. I saw KK raise his effort last season.
 
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The issue of course, with rebuilding is the young guys need to actually do something. Outside of Fox, the entire young group of skaters( not including Igor who has been incredible) has been bad, underperforming or at best, inconsistent.


The issue is that not all top draftees and other prospects who shine will succeed.

You need quantity of first round picks plus very early picks. You can't sit here thinking that you got a single #7 overall pick and now he'll be an All-Star who delivers the Cup. That won't happen. You'll have busts. You'll have mediocre picks. You'll have injuries. But quantity of picks and quality matters. The difference in odds between top 2 vs top 10 is massive. The difference in the odds of getting an All Star between #2 and #21 plus a couple second picks vs a single #18 is enormous.
 
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