Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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well the kid is only 21. to me a good indication of some decent progress is if he finds someway to finish at the 40 pt mark. then the true test will begin next season

He's not exactly doing much to show he belongs in the top 6. At least Kakko shows that he has a pulse.
yes. using some pat riley terminology.

kakko this season has been engaging in MS during games. MS=meaningful specifics. on the other hand laffy has been nothing but a WG. WG=wandering generalities.
 
How was this not picked up by scouts when he was in junior? How does a kid lacking hustle, awareness/hockey iq end up going #1?
A lot of these things don’t come out until you are playing against even competition and your superior skills can’t just dominate a game. Again I don’t think it’s a lack of hustle/awareness. I think he’s learning what the game really is and he’s never had to work that hard to be superior to everyone he’s played against. That’s not the cane anymore.
 
Scratched, then put on the 3rd line again... and when he doesn't light the world on fire with 12-13 minutes of ice time and no PP time... when will Gallant be held accountable?
Does everyone forget Gallant benched Laffy late in the year last season ? Laffy had 4 goal and 6 points in his last 7 games and we know what he did in the playoffs.
 
People underestimate confidence, or lack thereof, and it’s effect on skill sets. A player lacking confidence can often appear as a player lacking skill. Laffy has the skill. It has not been displayed enough at this level.

Whether that is complacency, as some have suggested, or a lack of confidence, I don’t know, but he didn’t suddenly become a mucker. He’s clearly afraid to make a mistake out there and not making high risk plays which is limiting his playmaking.
 
I’m really confused as to why everyone is so certain Laf “has the skill”. Players like Puljujaarvi, Yakupov, Zacha, Filatov showed “the skill” but never put it together. Laf doesn’t show it. He’s not a dynamic skater, he doesn’t have any tantalizing rushes, he isn’t threading the needle or making feeds no one else could see, he doesn’t have an overpowering shot or the ability to get open and use it. He dominated juniors because he had a man body at 17. He’s not huge, but 6’ 195 is big and thick for the age.

I think Kakko is wildly disappointing as well, but Kakko at least shows great puck protection and possession skills along the walls and that he can actually hammer the puck sometimes (recently). Chytil at least has obvious dynamic speed and puck carrying/rushing ability. Whether we believe the team would ruin Zegras or Stutzle as well, similarly Zegras has undeniable dynamic puck skills and creativity and Stutzle is a world class skater who isn’t afraid to play physically and has good hands and a good shot.

What is Lafreniere exceptionally good at? Don’t tell me he needs PP1 time and 20 minutes per night for us to find out. I’ve said 100 times I like Laf as a kid - he’s blessed with a super likable personality and overall just seems like a good, humble guy who wants to be here. I simply don’t believe in him. I don’t see a single plus skill in his tool kit. Even on draft day I wanted Stutzle. I just will always take the prospect who has an obviously world class ability over one that has none. Lafreniere - at the time - looked like, while he didn’t have any world class ability, he was above average in enough areas to be a complete package. That was wrong. He isn’t above - or enough above - in any category. Stutzle will always be a top 1% skater, just for example.
 
I’m really confused as to why everyone is so certain Laf “has the skill”. Players like Puljujaarvi, Yakupov, Zacha, Filatov showed “the skill” but never put it together. Laf doesn’t show it. He’s not a dynamic skater, he doesn’t have any tantalizing rushes, he isn’t threading the needle or making feeds no one else could see, he doesn’t have an overpowering shot or the ability to get open and use it. He dominated juniors because he had a man body at 17. He’s not huge, but 6’ 195 is big and thick for the age.

I think Kakko is wildly disappointing as well, but Kakko at least shows great puck protection and possession skills along the walls and that he can actually hammer the puck sometimes (recently). Chytil at least has obvious dynamic speed and puck carrying/rushing ability. Whether we believe the team would ruin Zegras or Stutzle as well, similarly Zegras has undeniable dynamic puck skills and creativity and Stutzle is a world class skater who isn’t afraid to play physically and has good hands and a good shot.

What is Lafreniere exceptionally good at? Don’t tell me he needs PP1 time and 20 minutes per night for us to find out. I’ve said 100 times I like Laf as a kid - he’s blessed with a super likable personality and overall just seems like a good, humble guy who wants to be here. I simply don’t believe in him. I don’t see a single plus skill in his tool kit. Even on draft day I wanted Stutzle. I just will always take the prospect who has an obviously world class ability over one that has none. Lafreniere - at the time - looked like, while he didn’t have any world class ability, he was above average in enough areas to be a complete package. That was wrong. He isn’t above - or enough above - in any category. Stutzle will always be a top 1% skater, just for example.
Perfectly stated. Everyone's argument for why he isn't performing is, "he's 21, he needs PP1 time, he needs 18 min of ice time, he need X and Y players to be on his line." That is a lot of conditions to justify is 1OA status. There is nothing he has shown those far that he has been great at. Ive seen more flair in Gauthier.
 
Perfectly stated. Everyone's argument for why he isn't performing is, "he's 21, he needs PP1 time, he needs 18 min of ice time, he need X and Y players to be on his line." That is a lot of conditions to justify is 1OA status. There is nothing he has shown those far that he has been great at. Ive seen more flair in Gauthier.

Exactly. Gauthier doesn’t get PP time, doesn’t get big minutes, doesn’t play with top players… but he actually does flash impressive moments from time to time (a lot more frequently than Laf) he just can’t ever finish. The thing is Gauthier was a 21st OA pick that we acquired (when his draft team gave up on him) for Joey Keane, so no one cares that he sucks. Gauthier will get you out of your seat flashing a tantalizing amount of potential that just doesn’t amount to anything fairly often. Laf flashes nothing. And he gets better opportunities by a long shot.
 
Exactly. Gauthier doesn’t get PP time, doesn’t get big minutes, doesn’t play with top players… but he actually does flash impressive moments from time to time (a lot more frequently than Laf) he just can’t ever finish. The thing is Gauthier was a 21st OA pick that we acquired (when his draft team gave up on him) for Joey Keane, so no one cares that he sucks. Gauthier will get you out of your seat flashing a tantalizing amount of potential that just doesn’t amount to anything fairly often. Laf flashes nothing. And he gets better opportunities by a long shot.
The only certain things in life are death, taxes and Gauthier's offensive play ending with the goalie holding the puck.
 
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People underestimate confidence, or lack thereof, and it’s effect on skill sets. A player lacking confidence can often appear as a player lacking skill. Laffy has the skill. It has not been displayed enough at this level.

Whether that is complacency, as some have suggested, or a lack of confidence, I don’t know, but he didn’t suddenly become a mucker. He’s clearly afraid to make a mistake out there and not making high risk plays which is limiting his playmaking.
Been saying this for a month
 
Exactly. Gauthier doesn’t get PP time, doesn’t get big minutes, doesn’t play with top players… but he actually does flash impressive moments from time to time (a lot more frequently than Laf) he just can’t ever finish. The thing is Gauthier was a 21st OA pick that we acquired (when his draft team gave up on him) for Joey Keane, so no one cares that he sucks. Gauthier will get you out of your seat flashing a tantalizing amount of potential that just doesn’t amount to anything fairly often. Laf flashes nothing. And he gets better opportunities by a long shot.
Are we talking about the same Gauthier that has 10 goals in a 122 career games at the nhl level???

He’s also 4 years older then laf but yeah whatever
 
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Are we talking about the same Gauthier that has 10 goals in a 122 career games at the nhl level???

He’s also 4 years older then laf but yeah whatever

That’s actually sort of the point. Even a player who clearly doesn’t have the potential to break out and be an impact player shows some clear standout ability that explains why he was a first round pick and is still hanging around in the NHL. There are plenty of players around the league who are big fat nothings and show flashes of talent frequently. They get far less opportunities than Laf. Laf never shows any flashes of an elite player - apparently if he got PP1 time and 20 minutes per night with established all stars he suddenly would begin to. It doesn’t work that way. Even if he was buried and not getting the opportunities to put up the NUMBERS we want, he would still flash some skill every game or two. He‘s basically Warren Foegele or a slower, less effective Zach Hyman. He can be a 60 point guy eventually, but I highly doubt he’s ever going to be a satisfying 1OA.
 
That’s actually sort of the point. Gauthier is just an example of a player who shows flashes - because he’s on this team and someone else brought him up. Even a player who clearly doesn’t have the potential to break out and be an impact player shows some clear standout ability that explains why he was a first round pick and is still hanging around in the NHL. There are plenty of players around the league who are big fat nothings and show flashes of talent frequently. They get far less opportunities than Laf. Laf never shows any flashes of an elite player - apparently if he got PP1 time and 20 minutes per night with established all stars he suddenly would begin to. It doesn’t work that way. Even if he was buried and not getting the opportunities to put up the NUMBERS we want, he would still flash some skill every game or two. He really reminds me of
Magnus Paajarvi Lafreniere
 
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Could’ve signed a few of Evan Rodrigues, sonny Milano, traded for a non-Goodrow 3C and given Chytil the 2C role. Would have tons more flexibility, deeper lineup, another open PP1 spot for a lefty under the age of 25. Instead, classic rangers move
It was very much more about eliminating flexibility. The org has none right now. They are gaining tdl cap space but that does nothing but help you bleed assets to fortify your core group that you have and believe in. I don't know how anyone can watch this team at this point and believe in this core, and especially believe in the makeup and structure for the next 2-3 years.

Unfortunately bc of the commitments made to the group here they have no choice but to dump assets into it for the next few years to see if it works for a run to the finals.

Last year I very much believed that group earned the deadline trades and support bc of their winning. They were more than their parts, they earned it. This year the parts look like they should be more than what we have seen and equally so I don't think this year's team has earned tdl reinforcements bc I don't think they have honestly played well enough for an org to deplete resources by investing further on this group, BUT they basically already committed to that for the next couple of years by boxing themselves into this core group of zib, bread, Vinny, trouba, fox, Igor, Kreider.

66.2 percent of the current cap is in that group, so please forgive me whenever I hear people talking about trading Lindgren or goodrow as the way you help fix this team and it's structure. It's comical. Bandaid on a broken leg nonsense. You want to address things here you need to rip a core piece out of this organization that opens up cap flexibility AND opens opportunity to other players that you expect to lead this team in short order.

I'm not sure how people envision this transition from the current vets to the young vets happening in 2-3 years when the young vets are still shielded like their 18 years old and will be into their mid 20s having had no real sense of reigns on this team at all besides the "kid line" talking points.
 
Trade Trouba with a quickness. Everyone is on the same page. 2023, we come together as one.
 
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