Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part II

[tfong]

Man you guys are impatient.

Fantasy hockey doesn't wait for anyone!

Also glad Laf got on the board. I feel he just needs to take more risks with his plays, hes still just playing so safe imo.

 

[Machinehead]

So are Höglander, Kaprizov, Stützle, Smith, Miller, Lankinen, Romanov, Byram.

Lafrenière has had a slow start. While other rookies haven't. What's the problem behind that? I don't think it's Lafrenière

I think it's this system he is playing in that doesn't allow for creativity

Or anything else lol

 

[Machinehead]

Statistically, I can't find a worse start for a first overall in my lifetime. Tell me where that statement is incorrect.

Admitting that and feeling disappointment with it is not mutually exclusive with thinking he's going to have a great career.

Why does everything have to be a line in the sand?

 

[DialUp]

Why does everything have to be a line in the sand?

Because someone has to "win" the argument.

He will probably have a worse season, stats wise, than Patrik Stefan did, unless he sticks with playing with Panarin. The fact he hasn't gotten even a phantom secondary assist yet is mind boggling.

 

[Levitate]

I feel like whenever a young guy is moved to play with Panarin he becomes passive and ends up watching the play and trying to figure out where to go. Happened with Kakko until he started taking more control of his game but even he then regressed when Panarin came back from injury. Panarin controls the puck so much and is always looking for that quick strike pass or shot rather than digging pucks out that guys like Laf and Kakko seem to spend more time trying to figure out where to go on the ice than getting the puck and trying to make plays

 

[Hire Sather]

I just don't understand how 2 pts in 15 games, with him being invisible in many can just be written off as nothing.

How can you HONESTLY have no concern at all?

Just be realistic. It's ok to be concerned.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I just don't understand how 2 pts in 15 games, with him being invisible in many can just be written off as nothing.

How can you HONESTLY have no concern at all?

Just be realistic. It's ok to be concerned.

You can raise your concerns and voice your disappointment without writing him off and calling him a bust.

It's not an either/or thing.

 

[Machinehead]

You can raise your concerns and voice your disappointment without writing him off and calling him a bust.

It's not an either/or thing.

This is true but I'll go back to what I said the other night which is that I haven't seen a single instance of unreasonable negativity in these threads.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This is true but I'll go back to what I said the other night which is that I haven't seen a single instance of unreasonable negativity in these threads.

Sarcasm?

 

[Machinehead]

Sarcasm?

No, I mean, who's sitting in here saying his career is over?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

How players score in their first year let alone in their first 15 games means nothing. Some players jump in and produce right away and then fizzle later on ie Daigle, Yakupov, etc, some start slow and build momentum, ie Scheifle, Hughes etc. Being concerned about a teenager in this year in particular is crazy.

 

[The New Russian Five]

Statistically, I can't find a worse start for a first overall in my lifetime. Tell me where that statement is incorrect.

Admitting that and feeling disappointment with it is not mutually exclusive with thinking he's going to have a great career.

Why does everything have to be a line in the sand?

Joe Thornton? Unless you're a young buck.

 

[ThirdEye]

I think the skill is the there and he'll be fine, but sure would have been nice to have gotten a tad more offense out of him so far. Especially with a lot of the games being so close

It doesn't help that all of the teams in our division have been pretty competent so far. No Ottawa or Detroit to dunk on and gain confidence. In the short term that sucks but all of these ultra competitive games will undoubtedly help these kids in the long-run.

 

[Machinehead]

Joe Thornton? Unless you're a young buck.

Thornton was playing like six minutes a game. That was a completely different brand of stupidity.

 

[Crease]

This is true but I'll go back to what I said the other night which is that I haven't seen a single instance of unreasonable negativity in these threads.

Poster 1: I’m concerned.

Poster 2: It’s ridiculous to write him off this early.

Poster 1: I’m not writing him off, I’m just concerned.

Poster 3: It’s been only 15 games, step back from the ledge.

Poster 1: I’m not on the ledge, I’m just concerned.

Poster 4: ...

 

[CasusBelli]

Poster 1: I’m concerned.

Poster 2: It’s ridiculous to write him off this early.

Poster 1: I’m not writing him off, I’m just concerned.

Poster 3: It’s been only 15 games, step back from the ledge.

Poster 1: I’m not on the ledge, I’m just concerned.

Poster 4: ...

hf = true
poster = 1
while hf :
if poster % 2 == 0:
print(“not bust”)
else:
print(“bust”)
poster += 1

Edit: looks like indentation doesn’t work here. Anyway, enjoy the infinite loop.

 

[Synergy27]

Statistically, I can't find a worse start for a first overall in my lifetime. Tell me where that statement is incorrect.

Admitting that and feeling disappointment with it is not mutually exclusive with thinking he's going to have a great career.

Why does everything have to be a line in the sand?

I did a pretty thorough PPG analysis of every 1 and 2OA in the cap era several pages back. The only one that was as close to this bad is Seguin, and that’s mostly chalked up to him being reined in significantly by the coaching staff there a la Thornton. He blew up in year 2.

I’ve voiced a shit ton of concern while never once uttering the word bust. I openly admit that it is most likely that those that are not concerned at all will likely end up being right to feel that way, but I personally think stats this bad have to alter your priors to some degree.

If Laf came into the season as what, 98% chance of being an elite 1st liner, that number has to have come down by more than just a few points given what we’ve seen. That’s what concern means to me.

 

[AlaBlueShirt]

I feel like whenever a young guy is moved to play with Panarin he becomes passive and ends up watching the play and trying to figure out where to go. Happened with Kakko until he started taking more control of his game but even he then regressed when Panarin came back from injury. Panarin controls the puck so much and is always looking for that quick strike pass or shot rather than digging pucks out that guys like Laf and Kakko seem to spend more time trying to figure out where to go on the ice than getting the puck and trying to make plays

Panarin thinks the game at another level it’s prolly damn hard to click with him. Then again him and Kane was a very dominating duo, type of where you could throw Marc Staal in the middle and he would be a ppg player.

 

[Alluckks]

This thread is pretty on par for HFNYR

I'm concerned about the whole of the team than I am about Laf individually

I was a lot more concerned about Kakko last year looking lost when the whole team was playing really well on offense

 

[6zag]

Panarin thinks the game at another level it’s prolly damn hard to click with him. Then again him and Kane was a very dominating duo, type of where you could throw Marc Staal in the middle and he would be a ppg player.

I think Panarin and Kane are extremely similar players, but where Kane has been taught to take it down a notch (play differently) when playing with lesser players, Panarin's hockey brain just fires on all cylinders. Kane did say the years where he played with breadman were the most fun years of playing hockey for him, and that's probably because he was able to play at 100% without having to worry about others keeping up.

This isn't meant to be talking Panarin down, it's just that he hasn't been coached like NA players have from young age, he's most likely always just played like he wants to and it works. But it also means that some players just won't be able to keep up with him, especially if they see not used to him.

Maybe Laf can become Panarin's second BFF in time, here's hoping.

Could also be that I'm talking straight out of my ass, this is pure speculation so take it with a fistful of salt.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Excuses are like assholes. This thread is full of them.

He's having a historically bad start for a #1 pick , those are the facts. He's been a bust so far in that sense. Although I place more blame on the team/org than on the player, fwiw

I actually do not care about his points in his first 20 games. I would not care in he had 0 points-10 points. I just want to see some superstar skills. If he showed a great shot, great dangles or great speed I would feel better. I'm not bashing the kid or giving up on him. That would be nuts at 19. Guys are not mentally nor physically mature at 19. I just would like to see some skills that make me sit up and say wow. I have not yet but that does not mean I will not ever. I just hope its soon so everyone can say oh now I see.

 

[Synergy27]

I actually do not care about his points in his first 20 games. I would not care in he had 0 points-10 points. I just want to see some superstar skills. If he showed a great shot, great dangles or great speed I would feel better. I'm not bashing the kid or giving up on him. That would be nuts at 19. Guys are not mentally nor physically mature at 19. I just would like to see some skills that make me sit up and say wow. I have not yet but that does not mean I will not ever. I just hope its soon so everyone can say oh now I see.

This is the other part of the concern argument. Laf has yet to really flash, let alone consistently demonstrate, many of the interesting facets of his game that made him special (high IQ passes, high level compete, Messier-like edge - I’ll give him a pass on that as a teenager).

That crazy goal that Stuetlze scored the other night where he blazed down the wing and went top shelf from inches above the goal line? I’d like to see Laf do something like that, don’t care if he scores or not. If his being held off the stat sheet but still creating plays that your typical middle 6 forward is incapable of, I am fine with that.

Saturday’s goal is a good start. That was a nifty little move in close and a demonstration of high end processing given that the vast majority of players go for a direct deflection there. Hopefully that was a confidence builder.

 

[True Blue]

Excuses are like assholes. This thread is full of them.

He's having a historically bad start for a #1 pick , those are the facts. He's been a bust so far in that sense. Although I place more blame on the team/org than on the player, fwiw

Again, can you name one single 19 year old that came into the league under the same circumstances? In the entire history of the NHL?

Need him to start getting some apples, he’s made some nice passes but with our teams conversion rate he needs to make like 8-9 great setups a game if he wants earn a point

But that is one of the points. He can only do what he can control. If the vets are not putting in his setups, how is that on him? He could have easily another 6 points at this point.

 

[True Blue]

"No pre-season" and "COVID year" apply to every player. I never bought that as an excuse

Yeah? You are now equating veterans with 19 year old rookies? And then let's also add that he did not play hockey in 10 months.

I think it's this system he is playing in that doesn't allow for creativity

Does Panarin's creativity seem stifled to you? What about Fox & DeAngelo? ZBad had now issues ever since Quinn took over. In fact, he only got better. Same goes for Buchnevich. Is Kakko's problem this year is that his creativity being stifled?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

TS scores a terrible goal the other night that no NHL goalie has any business giving up and its "OMG CRAZY GOAL!" (BTW, it was a bad angle shot from inside of the bottom of the left circle, not inches above the goal line.)

Laf scores a much tougher goal from in tight and its "Meh, I hop that gets him going"

Some of you are just looking for disappointment.