Confirmed with Link: Alexandre Carrier acquired from the Predators in exchange for Justin Barron

[Estimated_Prophet]

If one is uninterested in understanding the causal relationships between events, cause & effect, delayed effects, etc., sure.

Otherwise, after a long enough period and data points, stats (ie results) and some basic analysis gives a much better reflection of performance than anything else.

We’re talking about sports. It’s rigidly contained within very easy to understand parameters. Denying the facts of a sport team’s performance doesn’t make the manager’s performance any better (not that his process was good in the first place).

Making (weakly argued) excuses for Bergevin’s inability to add talent to the Habs roster in 2024… I don’t even know what to say. What compels a man?

This is absolute word salad nonsense

 

[26Mats]

There was no way Habs were giving Monahan 5 years and probably no way he was signing here.

I think he would have signed.

But for sure 5 years may prove to a bad move, or not. We'll see...

 

[sampollock]

So far so good.
Solid dude

 

[OneSharpMarble]

There was a lot of people raving about how terrible KH is, weird how quiet they got all of a sudden after just a little move like this. I'm sure the crybabies will be back after a couple losss though.

 

[tazsub3]

There was a lot of people raving about how terrible KH is, weird how quiet they got all of a sudden after just a little move like this. I'm sure the crybabies will be back after a couple losss though.

Really ? Someone not in a mental asylum was I’d kh is terrible hahahah.
I guess getting all the assets starting worth the money man trade was pure luck

 

[ReHabs]

This is absolute word salad nonsense

Here, I’ll simplify it for you: With a large enough dataset and consistent parameters for success (eg Wins, pt%, playoff round wins, etc.) stats can’t lie.

The Habs won five playoff rounds and missed the playoffs three times in the ten years before Bergevin took over:

And won six playoff rounds (not including the Covid play-in) and missed the playoffs four times in the ten years with Bergevin at helm:

When accounting for Carey Price’s HHOF worthy heroics, and the other assets he inherited (Subban, Markov, Plekanec, Pacioretty, etc need no introduction) it is impossible to argue the Habs were better under Bergevin than before he took over.

Hope this was a simple enough demonstration of my point.

 

[nhlfan9191]

There was a lot of people raving about how terrible KH is, weird how quiet they got all of a sudden after just a little move like this. I'm sure the crybabies will be back after a couple losss though.

It’s been a miserable season for Hughes as they wanted to take a step forward, even if it was small, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen. At least not right now. The Dach and Newhook trades aren’t looking good either given what he gave up so I understand people being skeptical at this point. He needs some of these prospects he’s drafted to start blooming and a big trade that works out to keep people from turning on him. The criticism management is getting now is nothing compared to what it will be if he doesn’t get us out of the bottom 10 of the league in the next year or two.

 

[ReHabs]

There was a lot of people raving about how terrible KH is, weird how quiet they got all of a sudden after just a little move like this. I'm sure the crybabies will be back after a couple losss though.

Not sure — are you expecting people who were upset with the manager’s inaction in the face of regression to complain after the manager makes a move? What a senseless complaint.

I really hope it isn’t only “crybabies” who want the Habs to not lose games before the end of the first period. Calling people crybabies? Really? Getting mad like this seems like a perennially frustrating way to interact with your fellow fans.

 

[ReHabs]

It’s been a miserable season for Hughes as they wanted to take a step forward, even if it was small, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen. At least not right now. The Dach and Newhook trades aren’t looking good either given what he gave up so I understand people being skeptical at this point. He needs some of these prospects he’s drafted to start blooming and a big trade that works out to keep people from turning on him. The criticism management is getting now is nothing compared to what it will be if he doesn’t get us out of the bottom 10 of the league in the next year or two.

Well said.

Basically many of his moves, decisions, and indecisions have all seemingly imploded at the same time. These are independents of any purposeful tanking plan. Until things change, I don’t see the point of feigning outrage that there happens to be criticism of friggin Newhook and Dach.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Well said.

Basically many of his moves, decisions, and indecisions have all seemingly imploded at the same time. These are independents of any purposeful tanking plan. Until things change, I don’t see the point of feigning outrage that there happens to be criticism of friggin Newhook and Dach.

I feel the last 4 years of Bergevin’s 9 year career here was the “outrage stage” of his tenure. KH is not there yet and I think it’s unfair not to give him more rope because he inherited a complete dumpster fire. It’s going to come down to the drafting and how many of these guys work out. But the group he’s drafted are all 21 and younger I believe. It’s too early to actually evaluate the success of his drafting.

 

[jellybeans]

There was a lot of people raving about how terrible KH is, weird how quiet they got all of a sudden after just a little move like this. I'm sure the crybabies will be back after a couple losss though.

I don't dislike Hughes and hated Bergevin but Dach Newhook and not picking Mitchkov is 3 pretty big fail as of right now the thing i like about him is he's not panicking he's staying the course of his plan

 

[ReHabs]

I feel the last 4 years of Bergevin’s 9 year career here was the “outrage stage” of his tenure. KH is not there yet and I think it’s unfair not to give him more rope because he inherited a complete dumpster fire. It’s going to come down to the drafting and how many of these guys work out. But the group he’s drafted are all 21 and younger I believe. It’s too early to actually evaluate the success of his drafting.

Hopefully we don’t have a “mass outrage” phase with Hughes at all but fan criticism of one, two, or a handful of moves and outcomes is perfectly normal in any phase of any team in any sport.

 

[sampollock]

There was a lot of people raving about how terrible KH is, weird how quiet they got all of a sudden after just a little move like this. I'm sure the crybabies will be back after a couple losss though.

KH is doing just fine.
Getting PL was gold

sometimes fans don't have patience. I know I can get trigger happy too

 

[FerrisRox]

I don't get the big deal with Kova. They wanted to give Barron oe last try and it did not work out they traded him for Carrier and honestly is Kova better than Carrier? Barron's value was at most a 3rd round pick imo so at the end of the day we got a 4th instead of a 3rd and we made sure to give Barron one last chance to prove himself. I really don't get it the whole panic around trading Kova last summer it's crazy

If Kovacevic wasn't traded in the summer he would have been lost to waivers in October.

People pretending it was a "mistake" to trade him are ridiculous.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

There was a lot of people raving about how terrible KH is, weird how quiet they got all of a sudden after just a little move like this. I'm sure the crybabies will be back after a couple losss though.

Right now it's an ok trade until as the Habs improve.

If you look at the big picture the Habs took on a bottom pairing d that costs almost 4 mill.

And before anyone says anything If you want your team to be competitive for the cup, he's, at best on your 3rd pairing.

Habs aren't even competitive for a playoff spot, so this works.

 

[Victoire HuGo]

Right now it's an ok trade until as the Habs improve.

If you look at the big picture the Habs took on a bottom pairing d that costs almost 4 mill.

And before anyone says anything If you want your team to be competitive for the cup, he's, at best on your 3rd pairing.

Habs aren't even competitive for a playoff spot, so this works.

What tells you that Carrier is a bottom pair defenseman, this is not your first time saying this. He's pretty much averaged 20 mins a night his whole career with practically no PP time. The guy was paired with Ekholm and tasked with tough matchups on a competitive team.

People also mention Fabbro but there is a reason that Fabbro's role was actually decreasing over his time in NSH while Carrier's was increasing despite the draft pedigree.

With Reinbacher's injury, Carrier will be a main stay in top 4 for the next 2 years minimum which is actually a bargain at his price. Fabbro looking good out of NSH shows how much of a bad work the staff is doing there so I think it's fair to think this year was the outlier for Carrier.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

What tells you that Carrier is a bottom pair defenseman, this is not your first time saying this. He's pretty much averaged 20 mins a night his whole career with practically no PP time. The guy was paired with Ekholm and tasked with tough matchups on a competitive team.

People also mention Fabbro but there is a reason that Fabbro's role was actually decreasing over his time in NSH while Carrier's was increasing despite the draft pedigree.

With Reinbacher's injury, Carrier will be a main stay in top 4 for the next 2 years minimum which is actually a bargain at his price. Fabbro looking good out of NSH shows how much of a bad work the staff is doing there so I think it's fair to think this year was the outlier for Carrier.

It's a new system for him, so I'd expect him to be caught in the wrong spot here and there.

However, hes been beat and rather easily on plays that doesn't matter what system you're playing.

He played higher/high up in Nashville because Nashville was never that good to be considered a cup favourite.

Fabbro in the two games against the Habs since his move has looked like a solid waiver pick up, nothing great, but that's two games.

Habs still have over 7 mill in cap space, so still a lot and will have more to sign free agents and/or take on cap dumps for more assets.

The Habs needed more stability on the backend to help their young d and to help the goalies. Barron sucks defensively, so Carrier is an improvement. Pretty much everyone else.

Losing that 2.5ish mill cap space sort of sucks as it limits what the Habs can do.

Getting another top 5 pick is needed for the Habs, but at the same time if the players just see loss after loss after loss the Habs will be in the same situation that Buffalo is.

So, losing a bit of cap space to help solidify the d-core and hopefully help keep games a bit closer and win some to help create a winning mentality is a positive.

At the stage the Habs are actually at, this deal is fine and potentially next dead line they can retain on Carrier and get some assets back to add to a deal for an upgrade/send him as a retained player even as early as this offseason in a deal for an upgrade on Right d.

What I'm saying is your team isn't a cup contender if you have Carrier as a regular in your top 4, but the Habs aren't even in contention for the playoffs, so this is more than fine

 

[Sorinth]

It’s been a miserable season for Hughes as they wanted to take a step forward, even if it was small, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen. At least not right now. The Dach and Newhook trades aren’t looking good either given what he gave up so I understand people being skeptical at this point. He needs some of these prospects he’s drafted to start blooming and a big trade that works out to keep people from turning on him. The criticism management is getting now is nothing compared to what it will be if he doesn’t get us out of the bottom 10 of the league in the next year or two.

It hasn't been as miserable as many claim. They have taken steps forward in some respects but also steps backwards in others. Which is to be expected with a young rebuilding team and something Hughes himself said.

For example, some team stats compared to last year
GF/G is up, but GA/G is also up
SA/G is down, but SF is also down
PP and PK are both up, and incidentally were the two things MSL said he was going to work on more this season. But 5 on5 play is down.

And same goes for individual players, lots of players have progressed/taken steps forwards but a few have also taken steps back. If Slaf and Dach can have a strong final 20-30 games regardless of where we sit in the standings the season will probably be viewed as a small step forward.

 

[The Great Weal]

There was a lot of people raving about how terrible KH is, weird how quiet they got all of a sudden after just a little move like this. I'm sure the crybabies will be back after a couple losss though.

He's literally done nothing yet. The excuse was that he had many bad contracts to deal with, which is true. He can't have that excuse in this offseason. There have been good moves (Monahan/Laine) and bad ones (Lehkonen/Newhook), and we can't judge anything from the draft class yet. Saying he's terrible or great is incredibly premature.

Barron for Carrier is exactly the type of MB move and I'm not saying it as a bad thing.

 

[Kennerback]

My two cents. I love this deal. Carrier will be great for us.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

There was a lot of people raving about how terrible KH is, weird how quiet they got all of a sudden after just a little move like this. I'm sure the crybabies will be back after a couple losss though.

Dumping Barron is a very likable move especially for the Hughes haters. My opinion of Hughes went up for cutting bait, but of course he only did it when a Quartexx guy was made available.

What happened to all the crybabies saying Barron had top-4 potential and we need to give him more time?

 

[LaP]

If Kovacevic wasn't traded in the summer he would have been lost to waivers in October.

People pretending it was a "mistake" to trade him are ridiculous.

I kind of agree with the guy who say the mistake was not trading Savard at the TDL 2024 and keeping Kova this summer. Savard was playing well last year and i think a 1st could have been possible in exchange for his service at the TDL 2024 and having Kova and Carrier now would help Hutson and Guhle on the left side. That i agree with.

But the mistake was keeping Savard over Kova not trading Kova to give Barron one last chance. But Kova would be traded at the TDL this year anyway no chance KH would extend him to what he's going to ask, All in all we are talking about an almost inconsequential mistake. We'll lost a little bit of draft power but that's about it but our draft power is already quite strong.

 

[Rapala]

If Kovacevic wasn't traded in the summer he would have been lost to waivers in October.

People pretending it was a "mistake" to trade him are ridiculous.

Why would we lose him on waivers?
Struble was waiver eligible Kapanen could have been sent back.
Heck even Pezz could have been waived given his minutes this season.
I mean we just filled our 23 man roster today.

 

[Sorinth]

I kind of agree with the guy who say the mistake was not trading Savard at the TDL 2024 and keeping Kova this summer. Savard was playing well last year and i think a 1st could have been possible in exchange for his service at the TDL 2024 and having Kova and Carrier now would help Hutson and Guhle on the left side. That i agree with.

But the mistake was keeping Savard over Kova not trading Kova to give Barron one last chance. But Kova would be traded at the TDL this year anyway no chance KH would extend him to what he's going to ask, All in all we are talking about an almost inconsequential mistake. We'll lost a little bit of draft power but that's about it but our draft power is already quite strong.

On the flip side the Xhekaj - Savard pairing was really good at the end of last season and no doubt helped Xhekaj's development, and it's no coincidence that much of Xhekaj's recent good play has also been alongside Savard. Not sure that all happens if Kovacevic is paired with him.

It's one of the reasons hinted at for getting Carrier. Helping the development of the young guys already on the team is as if not more important then getting another dart to throw at the board.

 

[1909]

On the flip side the Xhekaj - Savard pairing was really good at the end of last season and no doubt helped Xhekaj's development, and it's no coincidence that much of Xhekaj's recent good play has also been alongside Savard. Not sure that all happens if Kovacevic is paired with him.

It's one of the reasons hinted at for getting Carrier. Helping the development of the young guys already on the team is as if not more important then getting another dart to throw at the board.

Guhle-Carrier is a good combo
BUT
Matheson-Hutson is not.