Confirmed with Link: Alexandre Carrier acquired from the Predators in exchange for Justin Barron

[WeThreeKings]

I recall posters complaining when the Habs lost Aaron Palushaj.

Tom Pyatt lol

 

[HomaridII]

 

[overlords]

Tom Pyatt lol

Cakes

 

[Jurivan Demidovsky]

Carrier > Kovacevic

 

[1909]

This board has pretty much planted their flag that the best move was to keep Kovacevic and waive Barron.

Instead Hughes gets a 4th and Carrier.

Habs could have both : Kovacevic and Carrier.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Habs could have both : Kovacevic and Carrier.

I don't think they need both.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Habs could have both : Kovacevic and Carrier.

We had Kovacevic. He wasn't that good. If we had both, that means both Xhekaj and Struble are sitting.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

We had Kovacevic. He wasn't that good. If we had both, that means both Xhekaj and Struble are sitting.

And Barron has offensive ability. They needed to be sure that he doesn't have the IQ to be adequate defensively before moving him .

 

[1909]

We had Kovacevic. He wasn't that good. If we had both, that means both Xhekaj and Struble are sitting.

You never know when an injury will occur. Usually, with the past seasons’s Habs, it was very often for very long periods. The way Xhekaj was playing the first 20 games of the season, he was AHL material. Same with Struble when he has to play on the right side. And we never know which version of Savard gonna come out.

 

[HabzSauce]

You never know when an injury will occur. Usually, with the past seasons’s Habs, it was very often for very long periods. The way Xhekaj was playing the first 20 games of the season, he was AHL material. Same with Struble when he has to play on the right side. And we never know which version of Savard gonna come out.

Ya still should have held on to Kovy but Hugo corrected their mistake with Carrier so all good

 

[LaP]

We had Kovacevic. He wasn't that good. If we had both, that means both Xhekaj and Struble are sitting.

I don't get the big deal with Kova. They wanted to give Barron oe last try and it did not work out they traded him for Carrier and honestly is Kova better than Carrier? Barron's value was at most a 3rd round pick imo so at the end of the day we got a 4th instead of a 3rd and we made sure to give Barron one last chance to prove himself. I really don't get it the whole panic around trading Kova last summer it's crazy

 

[Jurivan Demidovsky]

I don't get the big deal with Kova. They wanted to give Barron oe last try and it did not work out they traded him for Carrier and honestly is Kova better than Carrier? Barron's value was at most a 3rd round pick imo so at the end of the day we got a 4th instead of a 3rd and we made sure to give Barron one last chance to prove himself. I really don't get it the whole panic around trading Kova last summer it's crazy

I think it's more about keeping Savard over Kova. Many wanted Savard traded last deadline. In hindsight some people might be wishing something like this:

Hutson - Carrier
Guhle - Kovacevic
Xhekaj - Struble

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

He's been better than Barron, but if my team is expected to be a contender, he's probably a number 6 at best, but at almost 4 mill he's a cap dump, or just not someone I'd sign to my team if I'm trying to be good.

Early implications on him.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I don't get the big deal with Kova. They wanted to give Barron oe last try and it did not work out they traded him for Carrier and honestly is Kova better than Carrier? Barron's value was at most a 3rd round pick imo so at the end of the day we got a 4th instead of a 3rd and we made sure to give Barron one last chance to prove himself. I really don't get it the whole panic around trading Kova last summer it's crazy

Moving forward Kovacevic simply is not the type of player that we need in the system that Marty runs.

He is a great guy and I am happy that he is having success but he is playing on a team that insulates him very well and the stat worshippers are drooling over him without any context.

The hope was that Barron would take a step and that if at least one of Mailloux/Reinbacher took a step, and that would result in Kovacevic would just being in the way. With at least one of Matheson, Guhle, Hutson, Xhekaj or Struble needing to slot in on RD every night there were realistically only two spots for Barron, Reinbacher and Mailloux but only if Savard was moved as well. Kovacevic was never a part of the big picture and rightfully so and if the fans who are bawling about it had any ability to see past the end of their own nose they would come to the same conclusion that I am stating and that HuGo arrived at.

Carrier is a better fit in Montreal all day, every day.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Reg season stats 2013 to Nov. 2021:

17th pts%
23rd goals per game
T-27th PP%
T-19th PK%

Playoff stats:

T-11th win%
27th goals per game
With Carey Price in goal for almost every single playoff game: 7th in goals against per game
T-24th PP%
6th PK% (!!)

T.R.A.S.H.

It would be difficult t find a more flawed model than this one.

- At the the end of the day he made the playoffs in 6 of 9 seasons after taking over a non playoff team which is well above the expected results in that scenario.

- He finished with one conference semi finish, one conference final finish and one Stanley Cup final fish in those nine years which is also well above average.

-He said all along that he was not building teams to win President Cups despite still managing to finish runner up to the Rangers in 2014-15. His M.O. was to build with playoff style players who might struggle to get to the post season but were a threat once they got there and that proved to be true.

Injuries were his biggest downfall and this is not to suggest that he did not make mistakes as he made many but he still enjoyed far more playoff success than the average GM during his tenure and it really takes a witch burning mob mentality to look past his successes and instead fixate on a narrative that is more hyperbolic than it is true.

I personally have mixed feelings about his tenure but there is no denying that he had a template that proved to be viable despite the peaks and valleys that the organization went through.

I much prefer HuGo's management style but for some reason people need to make every opinion polarized and sh*t all over context, nuance and the facts to embolden their extreme views.

One thing for sure, it was time to go for MB as he was not the man to lead us out of the post Price/Weber era.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Ya still should have held on to Kovy but Hugo corrected their mistake with Carrier so all good

It was a numbers game, then the numbers dwindled.

Harris was traded.
Reinbacher got hurt. (He likely would have been part of the plan, maybe after TDL)
Barron didn’t look good, got hurt.

Those 3, along with Struble, were going to provide depth on D.

 

[the valiant effort]

It would be difficult t find a more flawed model than this one.

- At the the end of the day he made the playoffs in 6 of 9 seasons after taking over a non playoff team which is well above the expected results in that scenario.

- He finished with one conference semi finish, one conference final finish and one Stanley Cup final fish in those nine years which is also well above average.

-He said all along that he was not building teams to win President Cups despite still managing to finish runner up to the Rangers in 2014-15. His M.O. was to build with playoff style players who might struggle to get to the post season but were a threat once they got there and that proved to be true.

Injuries were his biggest downfall and this is not to suggest that he did not make mistakes as he made many but he still enjoyed far more playoff success than the average GM during his tenure and it really takes a witch burning mob mentality to look past his successes and instead fixate on a narrative that is more hyperbolic than it is true.

I personally have mixed feelings about his tenure but there is no denying that he had a template that proved to be viable despite the peaks and valleys that the organization went through.

I much prefer HuGo's management style but for some reason people need to make every opinion polarized and sh*t all over context, nuance and the facts to embolden their extreme views.

One thing for sure, it was time to go for MB as he was not the man to lead us out of the post Price/Weber era.

I swear you have been hacked because the logic presented in this post runs counter to almost everything I’ve read from you elsewhere. Carey Price is solely responsible for every modicum of “success” enjoyed by Marc Bergevin as a GM.

 

[26Mats]

It would be difficult t find a more flawed model than this one.

- At the the end of the day he made the playoffs in 6 of 9 seasons after taking over a non playoff team which is well above the expected results in that scenario.

- He finished with one conference semi finish, one conference final finish and one Stanley Cup final fish in those nine years which is also well above average.

-He said all along that he was not building teams to win President Cups despite still managing to finish runner up to the Rangers in 2014-15. His M.O. was to build with playoff style players who might struggle to get to the post season but were a threat once they got there and that proved to be true.

Injuries were his biggest downfall and this is not to suggest that he did not make mistakes as he made many but he still enjoyed far more playoff success than the average GM during his tenure and it really takes a witch burning mob mentality to look past his successes and instead fixate on a narrative that is more hyperbolic than it is true.

I personally have mixed feelings about his tenure but there is no denying that he had a template that proved to be viable despite the peaks and valleys that the organization went through.

I much prefer HuGo's management style but for some reason people need to make every opinion polarized and sh*t all over context, nuance and the facts to embolden their extreme views.

One thing for sure, it was time to go for MB as he was not the man to lead us out of the post Price/Weber era.

- He was able to make the cup finals because covid hit and then all of a sudden the cap space he never used to make deals like HuGo did to get Monahan and Laine and a 1st and a 2nd all of a sudden, unwittingly, allowed him to get Toffoli, Edmudson, Allen, Perry etc... He never would have gotten those players if covid hadn't hit.

- When he tried to construct a team that wasn't already built for him (the team that went to the conference finals against the rangers already had Markov, Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Camallerri, etc..). Yes, he added some excellent pieces: from Petry to Weise to Prust to Vanek to Weaver. But when he tried to build his own team, he added great character pieces but not enough talent - repeatedly: "the defense is better. We have Lernout."

I say he's a good a assistant GM, because he does have a lot of good qualities. But you don't want him coming up with the direction of a team being built.

I like this management team more for their overall vision - Gorton's vision combined with Hughes trade amd negotiation skills. But some individual moves will fail, just like Bergevin: we'll see about Michkov over Reinbacher, a 1st and a 2nd for Newhook, Lehkonen for a 2nd and Barron, not trying to sign Monahan this offseason, etc...

 

[26Mats]

Ya still should have held on to Kovy but Hugo corrected their mistake with Carrier so all good

It's going to be interesting to see how things play out: Kovy vs. Barron vs. Carrier.

I haven't been able to watch since we got Carrier. How does he look so far?

At any rate, all 3 are likely stop gaps until Mailloux and Reinbacher are ready. Not sure any of them could supplant Matheson or Struble playing on the right after Guhle, Hutson, and Xhekaj solidify themselves as the top 3 on the left.

 

[Sorinth]

- At the the end of the day he made the playoffs in 6 of 9 seasons after taking over a non playoff team which is well above the expected results in that scenario.

If you want to talk about flawed analysis, the team made the playoffs in 6 of 9 seasons prior to him taking over, including 5 of the last 6. So I'm not sure how it's well above the expected results.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I swear you have been hacked because the logic presented in this post runs counter to almost everything I’ve read from you elsewhere. Carey Price is solely responsible for every modicum of “success” enjoyed by Marc Bergevin as a GM.

That just isn't true as Carey Price also had awful performances where he failed miserably including being the reason that we were eliminated at least once.. It was as much our ridiculously punishing dmen and shut down center (Danault) along with players that he brought in like Suzuki, Toffoli, Perry, Armia and Anderson as well as drafting Caufield that played a huge role in getting to the final. Price took up a huge part of the salary cap and like any team MB had to rely on his best player who when he was on was the best goalie on the planet. You can't just eliminate an asset that MB was using as part of his template for success just because he was a goalie.

MB decided that he best way to surround Price was with dmen who would clear the slot and force players to shoot from the perimeter. Add in forwards you were almost all two way players and MB thought that with playoff rules allowing more interference and violence that his team would be extremely difficult to beat. He was correct whether anyone wants to admit it or not. Was it a plan that could sustain success, no but it was a plan that had a legitimate shot at winning a Cup.

MB's plan was flawed and he was not a man with a long term vision but he had the guts to see his vision through and it nearly worked which is more than 3o other GM's could have said in 2020/21.

I have my bones to pick with Bergevin for sure but I believe in giving credit where credit is due. I always thought that his plan had a chance but it was a painful process for a fanbase to go through and it took a level of stubbornness that MB has in spades to see it to the bitter end. He was the architect of that run and I will always cherish that spring even though I can remember watching the Habs hoist the Cup 5 times and lose in one other final. This one was so far removed from the glory days that it was just really nice to at least be in the dance again and have the bragging rights while living in Toronto. Montreal upset the Leafs and won three rounds that year, something the Leafs have never done and I mentioned that often when the locals would try and talk sh*t about us not being that good lol.

 

[Jack Spider]

He did a few glaring mistakes on pitches that I will attribute to stress or lack of sleep for now because of the circumstances of the trade. Too early to give a review on the player.

 

[ReHabs]

It would be difficult t find a more flawed model than this one.

If one is uninterested in understanding the causal relationships between events, cause & effect, delayed effects, etc., sure.

Otherwise, after a long enough period and data points, stats (ie results) and some basic analysis gives a much better reflection of performance than anything else.

We’re talking about sports. It’s rigidly contained within very easy to understand parameters. Denying the facts of a sport team’s performance doesn’t make the manager’s performance any better (not that his process was good in the first place).

Making (weakly argued) excuses for Bergevin’s inability to add talent to the Habs roster in 2024… I don’t even know what to say. What compels a man?

 

[ReHabs]

If you want to talk about flawed analysis, the team made the playoffs in 6 of 9 seasons prior to him taking over, including 5 of the last 6. So I'm not sure how it's well above the expected results.

Yeah I don’t understand the tendency to over-emphasize 2011-2012’s final standing and ignore the rest of the preceding results and the roster and pieces Bergevin inherited.

Squandered.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

- He was able to make the cup finals because covid hit and then all of a sudden the cap space he never used to make deals like HuGo did to get Monahan and Laine and a 1st and a 2nd all of a sudden, unwittingly, allowed him to get Toffoli, Edmudson, Allen, Perry etc... He never would have gotten those players if covid hadn't hit.

- When he tried to construct a team that wasn't already built for him (the team that went to the conference finals against the rangers already had Markov, Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Camallerri, etc..). Yes, he added some excellent pieces: from Petry to Weise to Prust to Vanek to Weaver. But when he tried to build his own team, he added great character pieces but not enough talent - repeatedly: "the defense is better. We have Lernout."

I say he's a good a assistant GM, because he does have a lot of good qualities. But you don't want him coming up with the direction of a team being built.

I like this management team more for their overall vision - Gorton's vision combined with Hughes trade amd negotiation skills. But some individual moves will fail, just like Bergevin: we'll see about Michkov over Reinbacher, a 1st and a 2nd for Newhook, Lehkonen for a 2nd and Barron, not trying to sign Monahan this offseason, etc...

There was no way Habs were giving Monahan 5 years and probably no way he was signing here.