Confirmed with Link: Alexandre Carrier acquired from the Predators in exchange for Justin Barron

[LaP]

It's like how everyone here has forgiven Bergevin for the Drouin trade because Drouin was a good gamble at the time, right?

The problem with the Drouin trade was not the trade itself. It was a nice gamble and most people were happy with the trade. People should not try to rewrite history. The problem is MB decided to lowball Markov and Radulov and use the money to buy a stupid dog. So Drouin who was supposed to be a nice gamble became Radulov's replacement. There's a vast difference between adding a nice gamble to the lineup without losing anybody important and trying to replace Radulov with said nice gamble.

On top of that Sergachev was probably the best LHD prospect in the NHL and one of the youngest Max Kaminski trophy winner so he would have been a perfect replacement for Markov. But since we traded him we tried to replace Markov with Brian M***** F**** Schlemko. So we went from Radulov and Markov to Drouin and Schlemko that was the problem. If MB makes the trade and then sign Markov and Radulov people would have been supportive of the trade and maybe it would have worked since we would have had a better leadership precense and less pressure on Drouin.

 

[1909]

The problem with the Drouin trade was not the trade itself. It was a nice gamble and most people were happy with the trade. People should not try to rewrite history. The problem is MB decided to lowball Markov and Radulov and use the money to buy a stupid dog. So Drouin who was supposed to be a nice gamble became Radulov's replacement. There's a vast difference between adding a nice gamble to the lineup without losing anybody important and trying to replace Radulov with said nice gamble.

On top of that Sergachev was probably the best LHD prospect in the NHL and one of the youngest Max Kaminski trophy winner so he would have been a perfect replacement for Markov. But since we traded him we tried to replace Markov with Brian M***** F**** Schlemko. So we went from Radulov and Markov to Drouin and Schlemko that was the problem. If MB makes the trade and then sign Markov and Radulov people would have been supportive of the trade and maybe it would have worked since we would have had a better leadership precense and less pressure on Drouin.

+ Drouin was asked to play center which was a very bad idea.

 

[Milhouse40]

Everybody understands why he made those trades, but the main objective was to get assets for our future team.

If those assets start turning into dust you are going to have people starting to question management's judgments. Nothing crazy about it. Hugo is not paid for good intentions, or making trades that look good on paper.

It's not about why those trades were made, it's about what we got for them.

We made those trades to get ASSETS which is not the same as getting NHLer.
Assets be use in multiple ways, to get more assets or to tget NHLer

We traded Brett Kulak for a 2nd....which is an asset.
That asset turned into Lane Hutson....but we did not trade Kulak for Hutson

Not all assets will turn out a winner....some will......

 

[LaP]

Everybody understands why he made those trades, but the main objective was to get assets for our future team.

If those assets start turning into dust you are going to have people starting to question management's judgments. Nothing crazy about it. Hugo is not paid for good intentions, or making trades that look good on paper.

Yes after 5 years. Not after 3.

I'm puzzled so many people still don't get what a rebuild is. In a rebuild you'll acquire many many young players via either picks or trades. Lot more than just 20. Some of them will fail because they are not good and some others wont find a place in your lineup cause you can't ice 42 players.

The point is the more you acquire the better are your chances to find a gem. Not all those kids will make it. Some will make it but with other teams. And that's fine as long as we find the gems. But we will only know when all those kids will be fully develop.

Maybe KH gave up on Barron too soon. And if he did it will justify criticism in time. But him evaluating than Barron wont be part of this team's top 6 doesn't mean the rebuild failed. It just mean this kid wont be part of it. It will happen to lot of those kids and this is normal it was the same for LA, Colorado and the other rebuils.

The way i see it is :

Hutson - a vet cause you have to have one
Guhle - Reinbacher
Xhekaj - Engstrom/Mailloux
a vet cause you don'T want a kid as 7th dman

KH just decided to focus on Hutson, Guhle, Xhekaj, Mailloux and Engstrom and you want to have minimum one vet. Don't be surprised if Struble is traded this summer.

 

[habsterr]

The problem with the Drouin trade was not the trade itself. It was a nice gamble and most people were happy with the trade. People should not try to rewrite history. The problem is MB decided to lowball Markov and Radulov and use the money to buy a stupid dog. So Drouin who was supposed to be a nice gamble became Radulov's replacement. There's a vast difference between adding a nice gamble to the lineup without losing anybody important and trying to replace Radulov with said nice gamble.

On top of that Sergachev was probably the best LHD prospect in the NHL and one of the youngest Max Kaminski trophy winner so he would have been a perfect replacement for Markov. But since we traded him we tried to replace Markov with Brian M***** F**** Schlemko. So we went from Radulov and Markov to Drouin and Schlemko that was the problem. If MB makes the trade and then sign Markov and Radulov people would have been supportive of the trade and maybe it would have worked since we would have had a better leadership precense and less pressure on Drouin.

Many people weren't happy with the trade. I hated the trade since day 1. Acquiring a problem child that a team needed to dump for an elite prospect makes no sense, other than it appeals to the French fan base.

 

[Archijerej]

t's almost like most of you just don't follow the nhl outside the habs.

Look at any deadline and the prospects that get traded for rentals, playoff help. The vast majority of them, even if good prospects don't pan out. This is because the odds are already stacked against you.

Yes, and that's part of the reason why the majority of the NHL struggles to build a sustainable contender and never wins anything.

I have spent years on this board rationalizing Bergevin's moves and still believe we was far from a monumentally bad manager this community painted him to be, but surely, mediocrity is not the bar we wish to set for Hugo?

Lekhonen for a 2nd and a defense prospects is about a classic deadline move you can make. Lekhonen was a middle 6 player at the time of the trade.

As I said at the time, it was a standard trade on paper and it addressed the need for a RD prospect. I also said the grade will depend on their evaluation of Barron. Seems like they missed.

When you set unrealistic expectations, you will always be disappointed.

Conversely, when your expectations are low, you will rarely be disappointed.

 

[Jaynki]

Such a sneaky good trade.

Carrier has 66% dzone deployment and was their top PKer. Also had the toughest deployment.

And although being the worst in the league, their PK is #1 in the league.

Carrier will be an excellent number 4 and stabilisating presence behind Hutson, Guhle and Matheson.

Unfortunately, Barron has not taken the step we needed him too.

 

[First Line]

Pierre Dorion said Sens were trying to acquire Carrier from Preds, thinks “Hughes hit a homerun” - starting @ 2:08:00

Said he was familiar with both Carrier & Barron from their junior days at Gatineau & Halifax.

Now I’m worried

 

[ReHabs]

Now I’m worried

Dorion's an underrated hockey man. He was working with an arm and a half tied behind his back due to lunatic cheapskate Melnyk and the fact Ottawa is almost as unappealing as Winnipeg or Edmonton. Dorion's drafting and development was as good as anyone could ask.

 

[malcb33]

I, for one, am still very bitter about how Markov was treated at the end. That bridge still needs to be mended IMO

 

[Sorinth]

Yes, and that's part of the reason why the majority of the NHL struggles to build a sustainable contender and never wins anything.

I have spent years on this board rationalizing Bergevin's moves and still believe we was far from a monumentally bad manager this community painted him to be, but surely, mediocrity is not the bar we wish to set for Hugo?

That's not the reason NHL teams struggle, and all you have to do is looking at the teams that did build sustainable contenders and you'll see a whole host of misses as well. It's not the misses that define you, they happen to everyone, it's being able to take advantage of your hits that separates the winners from the losers.

And honestly if you spent years rationalizing Bergevin;s move and still do rationalize his tenure then maybe you shouldn't be setting the bar for anyone.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Such a sneaky good trade.

Carrier has 66% dzone deployment and was their top PKer. Also had the toughest deployment.

And although being the worst in the league, their PK is #1 in the league.

Carrier will be an excellent number 4 and stabilisating presence behind Hutson, Guhle and Matheson.

Unfortunately, Barron has not taken the step we needed him too.

If he can take some pressure off Matheson somehow this move could pay dividends.

I can’t see us not improving from it.

 

[McFly2544]

The problem with the Drouin trade was not the trade itself. It was a nice gamble and most people were happy with the trade. People should not try to rewrite history. The problem is MB decided to lowball Markov and Radulov and use the money to buy a stupid dog. So Drouin who was supposed to be a nice gamble became Radulov's replacement. There's a vast difference between adding a nice gamble to the lineup without losing anybody important and trying to replace Radulov with said nice gamble.

On top of that Sergachev was probably the best LHD prospect in the NHL and one of the youngest Max Kaminski trophy winner so he would have been a perfect replacement for Markov. But since we traded him we tried to replace Markov with Brian M***** F**** Schlemko. So we went from Radulov and Markov to Drouin and Schlemko that was the problem. If MB makes the trade and then sign Markov and Radulov people would have been supportive of the trade and maybe it would have worked since we would have had a better leadership precense and less pressure on Drouin.

Don’t forget the part about the expansion draft…Drouin had to be protected and Sergachev didn’t…Lightning we’re stuck but essentially got gifted Serg

 

[the valiant effort]

 

[Archijerej]

That's not the reason NHL teams struggle, and all you have to do is looking at the teams that did build sustainable contenders and you'll see a whole host of misses as well. It's not the misses that define you, they happen to everyone, it's being able to take advantage of your hits that separates the winners from the losers.

And honestly if you spent years rationalizing Bergevin;s move and still do rationalize his tenure then maybe you shouldn't be setting the bar for anyone.

Wait, you're telling me elite organizations make more good moves than bad ones?

I'm so humbled by this profound input that I think I don't have much choice, but to follow your advice.

 

[LaP]

Don’t forget the part about the expansion draft…Drouin had to be protected and Sergachev didn’t…Lightning we’re stuck but essentially got gifted Serg

Yes that was another problem with that trade we did not get a sweetener for the protection slot in fact we even added a cond 2nd which made no sense.

 

[Jurivan Demidovsky]

I, for one, am still very bitter about how Markov was treated at the end. That bridge still needs to be mended IMO

Horrible what Bergevin did. He really does deserve a horse whipping for what he did to us for 10 years.

 

[Sorinth]

Such a sneaky good trade.

Carrier has 66% dzone deployment and was their top PKer. Also had the toughest deployment.

And although being the worst in the league, their PK is #1 in the league.

Carrier will be an excellent number 4 and stabilisating presence behind Hutson, Guhle and Matheson.

Unfortunately, Barron has not taken the step we needed him too.

There's definetly hope that he can stabilizes thing enough that even if he isn't amazing if he can tread water in tough minutes it helps the rest of the D find a more suitable role where they can in turn win their matchips. But worth noting our PK hasn't really been a problem, we are ranked 11th. So it's his 5on5 munutes that will matter.

 

[Kennerback]

If he can take some pressure off Matheson somehow this move could pay dividends.

I can’t see us not improving from it.

It will make Matheson more palatable because we only now have his brain cramps to deal with. As a parallel, Breezer would f*** up but there was not Breezer’s less skilled brother also on the ice at the same time also f***ing up.

 

[vokiel]

I, for one, am still very bitter about how Markov was treated at the end. That bridge still needs to be mended IMO

Well he was in the building a week ago roughly. Maybe that's all water under the bridge now.

 

[BJCOLLINS]

No player is 'evidently' bad when you trade for him, otherwise trades would never happen,

The fact of the matter is the player we traded for, thinking he would be good for the team, did not pan out.

This was a mistake and is a blemish on Hughes record however you want to slice it.

Some may call it a swing & a miss by Hughes. But, however you view it he’s identified the issue and has made a move to correct it.

Homer Posters may evaluate Carrier as = to a 2nd rounder….the league would be somewhere around 3rd or 4th. I’m sure HuGo didn’t predict Barron’s value would drop in 2 1/2 yrs.

The greater question for me is player development. 2 & 1/2 years and no progression in his development? Okay. I know we have no Jacques Laperrière in this organization and we’re rocking with the Cube & Robidas?

For the record I think we’re a better team with Carrier (right now) however player development has to be the real priority. MSL is admired by a lot of players & Pascal Vincent has given us a coaching bump in the A, but we need……more.

 

[Sorinth]

Wait, you're telling me elite organizations make more good moves than bad ones?

I'm so humbled by this profound input that I think I don't have much choice, but to follow your advice.

Actually no, it's not just a question of numbers and making more good moves then bad ones. After making a good move, if you sit around not making moves (Or only fiddling with depth) because you don't want to make a mistake like Bergevin then you often end up wasting that good move. That's what bad teams do, they waste their good moves.

 

[Egresch]

Jonathan looks very good in a pure big body shut down role with a experienced Siegenthaler and a proven forward group.

It is not a huge issue for me, just series of small mistakes in player assessment. They kept Savard and Barron instead of Kovacevic. Savard regressed exponentially and Barron did not improve at all.
On the other hand, Kovy thrives with new team, but for me it is still a coaching issue. We had so many D combinations this year, it is crazy. We should have stable pairing where players compliment each other, but our super coaches are able to pair Matheson with Hutson which for me is peak level of incompetence.

 

[le_sean]

French is easier to spell

That’s like me saying it’s easier to spell English than American. You’re just describing something different

 

[Knackys]

It is not a huge issue for me, just series of small mistakes in player assessment. They kept Savard and Barron instead of Kovacevic. Savard regressed exponentially and Barron did not improve at all.
On the other hand, Kovy thrives with new team, but for me it is still a coaching issue. We had so many D combinations this year, it is crazy. We should have stable pairing where players compliment each other, but our super coaches are able to pair Matheson with Hutson which for me is peak level of incompetence.

I agree with you that the Habs management probably should have kept Kovacevic over Barron in hindsight. That being said, it's easy to judge after the fact. A lot of people on this forum are completely overrating Kovacevic. He had 5 points in 7 games to start the season but since then he has become exactly the type of player he was with the Habs. A #5-6 defenseman who does his job and who will probably finish the season with 15-20 points.