Confirmed with Link: Alexandre Carrier acquired from the Predators in exchange for Justin Barron

[Whitesnake]

There's a lot of important things to remember when evaluating players and trades.

We got a recent 1st round pick right shot defenseman and a 2nd round pick for Lehkonen.

That is a good trade.

Barron didn't pan out as they expected, the outcome was not good, especially since Lehkonen thrived playing with better players and was a key component in a cup win for the Avalanche.

Good trade, outcome isn't the best. That's what happens when you deal in futures, you have to live with the variance of those futures, which are usually high variance items.

I will disagree. Yes, if those would be picks. And if with those picks, your scouts miss the picks, then it's not the GM fault. The value was there. The scouts f*** it up.

But Barron, as young as he is, was a known commodity. Your pro scouts and yourself as a GM made an evaluation out of him and a projection. And as cup contending you are, since we keep being told how an RD is suppose to be all of that, so much that the position alone is often making prospects BPA....it's something that the AVS got rid of a fast 6'2 RD for a player like Lehky.

so something tells me that they made their evaluation that he was easily replaceable. We didn't.

 

[sampollock]

Get over it already

wont' mention it again. but my point was made

 

[admiralcadillac]

Wow the same talking heads « always knew » the Lehkonen trade wasn’t a good one eh?

Give me a break.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It's crazy that some people think that after 50 AHL games at 20 years old (just turned) the Avs had made a final evaluation of Barron and were sure he was a bust. It's insane.

It's this "I'm smarter than a NHL executive and if things were different I'd be the best executive in the league" thinking that comes out in this environment.

It's fun to roleplay scout and GM.. but when you view everything through hindsight and live off of confirmation bias, you'll quickly overrate your own abilities.

 

[sampollock]

Barron could not be sent down (correct)
only way to move him out was trade

 

[LaP]

The last thing our blueline needed, with a god given talent like Hutson back there, is another sub 6'/200lb scrub

But go ahead and believe this trade will help the team in the long term, the Kent fan club will be disappointed. Didn't you celebrate the trading of Kovacevic and Allen? You know what this could have used all year? That darn Kovacevic and Allen. Our GM is making awful decisions, this trade is no different. Barron was brutal, could care less, but to make a trade for a smurfy blueliner with limited upside? Shit player our, shit player in.

This trade will not help the team long term and i'm pretty sure that was not the point. They gave up on Barron and gave him a chance to try again elsewhere. They needed a vet RHD on a short term and Carrier is the one they got for Barron.

 

[OldCraig71]

Okay but Kovacevic was picked up by us in waivers to begin with. I don’t really remember much of him at all. I certainly don’t remember anyone being upset when we dealt him.

Yeah. Not only that we have guys playing on their off side. We needed a vet there badly. I don’t think we need to even move Savard right now. The guy I’d move is Matheson.

Kovacevic was the only guy we acquired that was actually blocked because of a depth chart and not because the trading team was trying to move out the player. We got him off waivers but he turned out to be solid and is playing very well in NJ and is headed for a big pay increase.

We basically gave away a 6' 5" right mobile D on a league minimum deal to make room for Barron and now we have fixed that mistake with a guy earning 5-6 times the salary. I realize this opens the door for a Savard trade but we could have kept Kovacevic and moved him at this year's deadline.

We should have moved Matheson last year after his big season because his stock has dropped this year but injuries might create some demand I guess.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

While Lehkonen is here
"Sucks. can't hit the net. 3rd liner."

While Kovacevic is here
"solid 7th d man, expendable."

I remember arguing for hours on end how Lehkonen is a vastly superior player to Drouin, and very few people supported that view. Now he went and provided the Avs what they needed and getting a developing 1st round D and a 2nd round pick wasn't enough.

It's just comical.

Can you just admit that Barron was awful and it was time to move on

 

[WeThreeKings]

I will disagree. Yes, if those would be picks. And if with those picks, your scouts miss the picks, then it's not the GM fault. The value was there. The scouts f*** it up.

But Barron, as young as he is, was a known commodity. Your pro scouts and yourself as a GM made an evaluation out of him and a projection. And as cup contending you are, since we keep being told how an RD is suppose to be all of that, so much that the position alone is often making prospects BPA....it's something that the AVS got rid of a fast 6'2 RD for a player like Lehky.

so something tells me that they made their evaluation that he was easily replaceable. We didn't.

They made their evaluation that the package and tools were enticing enough to try to develop him.

He didn't develop and they moved on.

We weren't getting a perfect prospect back on top of a 2nd round pick for Lehkonen. They took a chance and it didn't work out.

They got great value in the trade.. the prospect piece they got back didn't develop how they needed him to and is on the verge of being passed by defenseman they did draft, identify and develop and so they flipped him for a known commodity that will help now.

Were people expecting Cutter Gauthier in return for Lehkonen?

 

[Whitesnake]

In the end, when all is said and done....at the time of both drafts....I wasn't a fan of Barron. Liked Carrier. So I got what I wanted..lol

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That's fair I guess but boy we are grasping at straws a bit trying to justify it..

????

We’re evaluating the trade. When you do that you evaluate everything.

The idea that Baron was a garbage prospect is ridiculous. And we got a second. It was a smart trade, exactly the kind of move you make when you’re rebuilding. And no matter what happens with Barron it paid off for us.

Yeah, if Barron turns out good this will be epic.

He clearly wasn’t progressing here. But he’s got talent and he’ll have more opportunities over there. His career has barely begun.

And no doubt, if he does turn into something we’ll see all the Kovacevic people and those who trashed Baron creating new threads on how we were stupid to let Baron go.

 

[LaP]

That's fair I guess but boy we are grasping at straws a bit trying to justify it..

Yeah, if Barron turns out good this will be epic.

If Barron develops into a good top 4 this will be a big mistake by KH. But we are not there yet. The Lehkonen trade remains a trade where the value of the assets going either way was fair.

 

[417]

We definitely would have - Lehkonen provided an excellent complement to the horses in Colorado.

Moving on from Kovacevic was the lowest hanging fruit possible. He was also going to go. As was Harris. These were foregone conclusions on the defensive end. I don't understand being mad about letting Kovacevic go. We had him and he didn't make a difference and wouldn't have made a difference for us this year either.

I certainly wasn't mad they traded Kovacevic, considering the cost they paid to acquire him, getting what they got was solid value.

Just not sure why they needed to do it, his salary was affordable, he played a role they didn't really have. It just seems like they've now spent the entire season looking for that type of player.

And we can argue whether or not Carrier > Kovacevic, I can't really provide an informed opinion I don't know much about Carrier.

But given their salaries, is the *that* much better?

I don't know....I just think they jumped the gun on Kovacevic a bit.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Can you just admit that Barron was awful and it was time to move on

Find me a point, anywhere in this discussion, where I have said that Barron developed how they wanted or provided the outcome they wanted when they acquired him?

It was time to move on - I've said that. He wasn't making a claim to the lineup and have guys in the pipeline ready to replace him by next year.

See, not that hard to say? But yet guys on the other side of the fence won't even admit that the trade was good value at the time of the trade, or admit that Barron was a good prospect with plenty of tools worth the investment.

 

[morhilane]

Wow the same talking heads « always knew » the Lehkonen trade wasn’t a good one eh?

Give me a break.

If Barron break out in the next two seasons with the Preds, the same posters will complain Habs traded him away for nothing...while still complaining the Lekhonen trade was bad.

 

[417]

I will disagree. Yes, if those would be picks. And if with those picks, your scouts miss the picks, then it's not the GM fault. The value was there. The scouts f*** it up.

But Barron, as young as he is, was a known commodity. Your pro scouts and yourself as a GM made an evaluation out of him and a projection. And as cup contending you are, since we keep being told how an RD is suppose to be all of that, so much that the position alone is often making prospects BPA....it's something that the AVS got rid of a fast 6'2 RD for a player like Lehky.

so something tells me that they made their evaluation that he was easily replaceable. We didn't.

Well of course he was replaceable, he wasn't even in their lineup at the time and they had arguably the best RD in all of hockey at still a very young age.

They were making a move to win a Cup...don't think that means they knew Barron sucked and we're pulling a fast one on the Habs.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Also worth mentioning this is another Quartexx nepo grab

Lecavalier’s brother reps Carrier

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Kovacevic was the only guy we acquired that was actually blocked because of a depth chart and not because the trading team was trying to move out the player. We got him off waivers but he turned out to be solid and is playing very well in NJ and is headed for a big pay increase.

We basically gave away a 6' 5" right mobile D on a league minimum deal to make room for Barron and now we have fixed that mistake with a guy earning 5-6 times the salary. I realize this opens the door for a Savard trade but we could have kept Kovacevic and moved him at this year's deadline.

We got a player off waivers and turned it into a draft pick. That’s all anyone really thought about - if they thought about it at all.

We should have moved Matheson last year after his big season because his stock has dropped this year but injuries might create some demand I guess.

They didn’t feel comfortable moving Matheson because he and Guhle were our only solid LDs. They didn’t know Hutson was going to pan out.

Now that he has, it’s time to move Matheson.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Find me a point, anywhere in this discussion, where I have said that Barron developed how they wanted or provided the outcome they wanted when they acquired him?

It was time to move on - I've said that. He wasn't making a claim to the lineup and have guys in the pipeline ready to replace him by next year.

See, not that hard to say? But yet guys on the other side of the fence won't even admit that the trade was good value at the time of the trade, or admit that Barron was a good prospect with plenty of tools worth the investment.

Good value at the time means nothing

All about results and future evaluations

Galchenyuk was good value at 3, etc

 

[Whitesnake]

They made their evaluation that the package and tools were enticing enough to try to develop him.

He didn't develop and they moved on.

We weren't getting a perfect prospect back on top of a 2nd round pick for Lehkonen. They took a chance and it didn't work out.

They got great value in the trade.. the prospect piece they got back didn't develop how they needed him to and is on the verge of being passed by defenseman they did draft, identify and develop and so they flipped him for a known commodity that will help now.

Were people expecting Cutter Gauthier in return for Lehkonen?

Nope. I would have been fine with an actual not drafted 1st rounder. We got a 1st round for lesser players....

In my case, ON THAT TOPIC, we got a player I didn't like at the draft and that clearly the AVS didn't care to much about. Somehow, looking at Barron and Newhook....Avs know something we don't....

As high as an AVs 1st round might be...it's still value. Pair it with another pick and you can pick earlier in the 1st round. Would have been, if picked adequately, a better value.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I certainly wasn't mad they traded Kovacevic, considering the cost they paid to acquire him, getting what they got was solid value.

Just not sure why they needed to do it, his salary was affordable, he played a role they didn't really have. It just seems like they've now spent the entire season looking for that type of player.

And we can argue whether or not Carrier > Kovacevic, I can't really provide an informed opinion I don't know much about Carrier.

But given their salaries, is the *that* much better?

I don't know....I just think they jumped the gun on Kovacevic a bit.

They had to do it because they had too many defenseman.

They weren't going to waive Xhekaj.
Struble had earned his NHL keep based on his play last season.
Hutson was always going to play.
Savard was the veteran.
Matheson they still value and wanted to keep around off a 60 point season and being a leader in the room.
Barron wasn't going to get waived.
Guhle is our best defenseman.

That's 7 defenseman.. they were going to move on from Harris and Kovacevic to allow the guys to move into the line-up and not sit and not play. Even today we can't get both Struble and Xhekaj into the line-up, not sure why we'd compound that by keeping Kovacevic around. Nor did Kovacevic play ever warrant being looked at as more than a 7th defenseman.

It was logic to do so; and I think they were expecting more of a push from Mailloux toward that line-up and it didn't quite happen that way. But the logic behind all those summer moves made perfect sense.

Good value at the time means nothing

All about results and future evaluations

Galchenyuk was good value at 3, etc

OK and the result is that they have Michael Hage in the system by virtue of using that Colorado 2nd round pick. They also now have Carrier on defense.

 

[417]

They had to do it because they had too many defenseman.

They weren't going to waive Xhekaj.
Struble had earned his NHL keep based on his play last season.
Hutson was always going to play.
Savard was the veteran.
Matheson they still value and wanted to keep around off a 60 point season and being a leader in the room.
Barron wasn't going to get waived.
Guhle is our best defenseman.

That's 7 defenseman.. they were going to move on from Harris and Kovacevic to allow the guys to move into the line-up and not sit and not play. Even today we can't get both Struble and Xhekaj into the line-up, not sure why we'd compound that by keeping Kovacevic around. Nor did Kovacevic play ever warrant being looked at as more than a 7th defenseman.

It was logic to do so; and I think they were expecting more of a push from Mailloux toward that line-up and it didn't quite happen that way. But the logic behind all those summer moves made perfect sense.

Yeah I get it, just not sure why they were so convinced Barron was going to take another step or that Mailloux was ready to push into the lineup.

They could have kept him and gone with 8D...moving Harris made sense, they're stacked on the left side.

The right side? Not so much IMO, beyond Savard there just was too much uncertainty and even Savard, you know the likely outcome is that he's going to be moved.

Kovacecic last year without being spectacular, provided solid hockey defensively and played a role on the PK. Big rangy, mobile Dmen like that, especially when they're right handed have added value.

It's not a big gripe, just thought that was a bit mishandled and they've since been scrambling to try to fix the hole it created.

Like I said, I don't know a whole lot about Carrier but another 2 years at 3.75M doesn't thrill me but willing to see what he has, from all accounts he's mobile and solid defensively, if he can solidify the top 4 playing with Guhle...it'll be a solid move.

If he oscillates between 2nd pair/3rd pair...its' not so much

 

[Whitesnake]

Well of course he was replaceable, he wasn't even in their lineup at the time and they had arguably the best RD in all of hockey at still a very young age.

They were making a move to win a Cup...don't think that means they knew Barron sucked and we're pulling a fast one on the Habs.

Not sure how having 1 RD makes the other RD positions void. Also, well when you pair Barron with Newhook...don't you start thinking they actually do pull fast ones? I mean, another type of trade to a lesser extent by the Avs that won't be as spectacular was them getting Josh Manson for another kid who, contrary to Barron, I liked very much in Drew Helleson. Though a lefty....this 2nd rounder also might not look as enticing as he once looked though....he's still 23.

So somehow, Avs seems to know what they are sending away. Though I will reserve my right to review Helleson in a few years. Still have some confidence in him.

 

[MasterD]

Barron just never improved from his first season with the habs. I would say he even regressed offensively.

Unfortunate, because I really liked his tools

He did. I remember him walking the blue line and passing the puck to himself between his legs in his first few games in Mtl and I thought we had just gotten a bigger Hutson.

Yeah, I got played big time.

 

[Kennerback]

I’ve heard the 2 extremes regarding the Barron issue:
1- Sakic knows hockey and would have never gifted a 19 year old 1st Round D unless he knew he wouldn’t amount to anything.
2- OMG, we gave up on a 23 year old 1st Round D because we were impatient.

Which is it?