Player Discussion Alexander Ovechkin (Vol. 4)

[CapitalsCupReality]

Everything will look like a circus if they continue to keep duck taping a team together every season. Not disagreeing with you but Ovis conditioning is way down on the list of problems this team has.
This season was such a shit show from the very start, cant judge anything based on last 86 games.

You kinda have to….

 

[dreadpirateroberts]

 

[Silky mitts]

This hasn’t aged well.

It was a statement of fact, but the following 2 seasons McDavids teams were 14-14 in the playoffs, Ovechkin’s 11-12, though McDavid outscored him 18 g 35 a to 10 g 9 a. This is the 3rd season.

 

[BallardEra]

He can't be your #1 guy now at age 39 next season.

It's not fair to both him and the team.

 

[Neil Racki]

Watching some highlights of our series vs rangers .. no clue why.

Ovi was pissed at Goodrow, following him around slashing him trying to I guess get him to fight.

Was this after Goodrows board late in a game?

Goodrow is dirty imo and that board late was deserving of a head shot next season imo

 

[BallardEra]

Capitals' Alex Ovechkin's Viral Photo Sparks Concerns Over Weight

The Capitals captain is enjoying the off-season before getting back to chase Wayne Gretzky's goalscoring record.

heavy.com

 

[895]

It’s kind of mind boggling to think about how great his career has been and then to think about how great it would’ve been if he was more Mackinnon like or heck even Crosby like in his training. He wouldn’t be as iconic or as likeable sure but we probably have more than the one cup.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

Isn't that how he always looks?

 

[usiel]

Feel like we've heard this same off season 'photo drama of AO being in shape' many times before.

 

[hb12xchamps]

Feel like we've heard this same off season 'photo drama of AO being in shape' many times before.

Sure but the difference is he’s pushing 40 years old. And IIRC, rumor was his slow start this year was partly due to coming into camp out of shape and partly due to fiddling with his sticks. He’s earned his rest but they’ve been off for a few months now, you’d think he’d look a little better. Hopefully it’s just a bad picture

 

[Jags]

It’s kind of mind boggling to think about how great his career has been and then to think about how great it would’ve been if he was more Mackinnon like or heck even Crosby like in his training. He wouldn’t be as iconic or as likeable sure but we probably have more than the one cup.

Come on. Ovechkin's success has been 100% about staying ridiculously consistent and unharmed for an insanely long time. So we get to the twilight of his career and you want to start bagging on him for not working hard enough? Pffft.

We didn't lose Cups because Ovi didn't play well. We lost Cups because most of our most competitive teams were poorly balanced, undercoached, and often one-dimensional. Opponents could just suffocate the rest of our team and dare Ovi to beat them, and he's just not that guy. Not sure anyone is.

I'm glad he doesn't seem to be white-knuckling the record chase, and he's earned the right to end his career however he wants. We've seen these types of criticisms leveled at him plenty of times. This one's no different.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Come on. Ovechkin's success has been 100% about staying ridiculously consistent and unharmed for an insanely long time. So we get to the twilight of his career and you want to start bagging on him for not working hard enough? Pffft.

Indeed it is bizarre to rip on one of the healthiest players in history - who played a massively physical game - for conditioning.

It is also bizarre to rip on one of the most consistent playoff contributors of all time for a lack of team success. Ovechkin led the Capitals in playoff points and goals more than just about any player in history has ever led their team. I think maybe Gretzky and Howe are ahead and that's about it. Or something like that. It's a very short list.

 

[Brian23]

Indeed it is bizarre to rip on one of the healthiest players in history - who played a massively physical game - for conditioning.

Or, we live in the world where Ovi notably got slower and lost agility very early in his career and has constantly been critiqued as being a guy who often times just stands around on the ice.

Like, this isn't a black and white thing. He can both without a doubt not have taken care of himself as a modern athlete should have and still have been a good player.

He was, and is, a Unicorn. He just probably could have been an even better Unicorn.

 

[Jags]

He was, and is, a Unicorn. He just probably could have been an even better Unicorn.

The statement was that his conditioning cost us championships. That's horseshit.

Our best teams had lopsided talent distribution, questionable coaching at best, and were often one-dimensional. And make no mistake, Ovechkin was that dimension. If anything was broken about those teams, it wasn't him. There's no disputing that.

Could he have been better? Sure, maybe. But the gall that it takes to look at The Greatest Goalscorer of All Time and say, "Dude, you could have been better," is staggering. He is not the dynamic, put-the-team-on-his-back guy that some other great players are. He's a weapon; a cannon you load and fire. And he's the best version of that that's ever played the game.

Looking back now and wishing he'd been different, talking like we didn't get enough from him somehow? There's gotta be a better place to peddle that nonsense than the Alex Ovechkin thread on the Washington Capitals board. Maybe www.dopiestideasever.com has a message board.

I do see where you're coming from, but it's literally like the people in Pittsburgh that whined that Mario could have been better or lasted longer if he hadn't been a smoker or was better conditioned; as if the monumental success he delivered to that city was lacking in some way. It reeks of an oblivious lack of gratitude. To look at Hall of Fame levels of success and feel as though that guy owed you more or that it's a shame that he didn't find a way to be even better somehow? That's bonkers.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The statement was that his conditioning cost us championships. That's horseshit.

Our best teams had lopsided talent distribution, questionable coaching at best, and were often one-dimensional. And make no mistake, Ovechkin was that dimension. If anything was broken about those teams, it wasn't him. There's no disputing that.

Could he have been better? Sure, maybe. But the gall that it takes to look at The Greatest Goalscorer of All Time and say, "Dude, you could have been better," is staggering. He is not the dynamic, put-the-team-on-his-back guy that some other great players are. He's a weapon; a cannon you load and fire. And he's the best version of that that's ever played the game.

Looking back now and wishing he'd been different, talking like we didn't get enough from him somehow? There's gotta be a better place to peddle that nonsense than the Alex Ovechkin thread on the Washington Capitals board. Maybe www.dopiestideasever.com has a message board.

I do see where you're coming from, but it's literally like the people in Pittsburgh that whined that Mario could have been better or lasted longer if he hadn't been a smoker or was better conditioned; as if the monumental success he delivered to that city was lacking in some way. It reeks of an oblivious lack of gratitude. To look at Hall of Fame levels of success and feel as though that guy owed you more or that it's a shame that he didn't find a way to be even better somehow? That's bonkers.

It’s definitely unlikely, it’s a team sport, but let’s say he was a workout freak….doesn’t a Captain with that kind of dedication greatly impact the entire roster in a positive way? (Orpik effect of sorts).

I’m not on the criticize Ovi team on this one, but I’ve certainly wondered “what if” before…..

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

In the young guns era Mike Green was known for eating cheese burgers and a 6 pack after games. Backstrom always had meatball jokes. And we all know about Semins effort levels. Its a big "what if"... better coaching, defense, goalies, training.

Ovie might have said F it after his Dad passed and doesnt care about training. He was in almost a full year slump after his Dad

 

[Jags]

I’m not on the criticize Ovi team on this one, but I’ve certainly wondered “what if” before…..

"What if?" cuts both ways though. What's the upside in this case? If we had teams that needed to be instructed to work out to be fit, then those teams weren't worth a shit to begin with. So the nebulous idea that Ovi conducting himself better would have rubbed off in some transformational way isn't convincing to me.

What seems far more likely is that a naturally indestructible guy becoming a gym rat to push the boundaries of that ability would have broken himself a time or two, perhaps irreparably.

For 20 years with remarkable, unmatched consistency, this team has had one guy be amazing in a way that no other guy has ever been in 50 years. To look at that guy as deficient somehow, instead of focusing on all the other pieces that weren't enough or didn't work out or couldn't take themselves seriously or couldn't coach effectively and on and on, is a perspective I just can't wrap my head around.

Yes, Ovi could have been better at some things. But you have one guy moving mountains for you while everyone else is carrying pillows and you want to blame him for his lack of effort? He's literally the best ever at the thing that matters most and yet you want MORE from him?

It's like standing at the finish line of the longest marathon ever, waiting for the winner that just literally finished faster than anyone ever has, and saying, "Pffft. You could have been faster. And you not being faster is why everyone else is slower. Your stunning, world-class achievement is disappointing to me. Impressive, but not nearly impressive enough. Do better."

Look, I get that this is just one of those "just sayin" types of hokey observations, but it's bananas.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Or, we live in the world where Ovi notably got slower and lost agility very early in his career and has constantly been critiqued as being a guy who often times just stands around on the ice.

Those criticisms are often invalid though.

How exactly does a player get to be top 3 in hits in his generation while just standing around? Does he have an invisibility cloak or something?

 

[Calicaps]

Ovi can't be everything. One of the smartest things BMac ever did was recognize that. He brought in Orpik, not only to be stout on defense, but also to say to all the young guys, "hey, only Ovi is Ovi. none of the rest of us are made of vibranium. so you're gonna have to learn to eat well and work out and stuff." Then when Orpik was gone, guys like Willy and Oshie took over that role, I'm pretty sure. And that's fine. Ovi leads with passion and drive. Other leaders in the room can handle the conditioning and professionalism.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

"What if?" cuts both ways though. What's the upside in this case? If we had teams that needed to be instructed to work out to be fit, then those teams weren't worth a shit to begin with. So the nebulous idea that Ovi conducting himself better would have rubbed off in some transformational way isn't convincing to me.

What seems far more likely is that a naturally indestructible guy becoming a gym rat to push the boundaries of that ability would have broken himself a time or two, perhaps irreparably.

For 20 years with remarkable, unmatched consistency, this team has had one guy be amazing in a way that no other guy has ever been in 50 years. To look at that guy as deficient somehow, instead of focusing on all the other pieces that weren't enough or didn't work out or couldn't take themselves seriously or couldn't coach effectively and on and on, is a perspective I just can't wrap my head around.

Yes, Ovi could have been better at some things. But you have one guy moving mountains for you while everyone else is carrying pillows and you want to blame him for his lack of effort? He's literally the best ever at the thing that matters most and yet you want MORE from him?

It's like standing at the finish line of the longest marathon ever, waiting for the winner that just literally finished faster than anyone ever has, and saying, "Pffft. You could have been faster. And you not being faster is why everyone else is slower. Your stunning, world-class achievement is disappointing to me. Impressive, but not nearly impressive enough. Do better."

Look, I get that this is just one of those "just sayin" types of hokey observations, but it's bananas.

It’s just a discussion….not everyone needs “upside” to have one….

I’ll say this….if you’re selling that him getting in better shape would have been a detriment to his career, you lost me.

 

[Midnight Judges]

IMO it's a body type thing. Ovie has generally been in excellent shape which is why he's been so successful. You don't score 50 goals and 90 points at age 36 and then basically repeat that pace at age 37 by not working out.

Watch, after Ovie retires, he's going to get huge. Then you'll realize how hard he's been working! lol

 

[Brian23]

The statement was that his conditioning cost us championships. That's horseshit.

Our best teams had lopsided talent distribution, questionable coaching at best, and were often one-dimensional. And make no mistake, Ovechkin was that dimension. If anything was broken about those teams, it wasn't him. There's no disputing that.

Could he have been better? Sure, maybe. But the gall that it takes to look at The Greatest Goalscorer of All Time and say, "Dude, you could have been better," is staggering. He is not the dynamic, put-the-team-on-his-back guy that some other great players are. He's a weapon; a cannon you load and fire. And he's the best version of that that's ever played the game.

Looking back now and wishing he'd been different, talking like we didn't get enough from him somehow? There's gotta be a better place to peddle that nonsense than the Alex Ovechkin thread on the Washington Capitals board. Maybe www.dopiestideasever.com has a message board.

I do see where you're coming from, but it's literally like the people in Pittsburgh that whined that Mario could have been better or lasted longer if he hadn't been a smoker or was better conditioned; as if the monumental success he delivered to that city was lacking in some way. It reeks of an oblivious lack of gratitude. To look at Hall of Fame levels of success and feel as though that guy owed you more or that it's a shame that he didn't find a way to be even better somehow? That's bonkers.

You can get as mad and throw as big a tantrum as you want, it doesn't change the fact Ovi hasn't ever taken his physical conditioning seriously to the level of modern athletes. They have reports like this yearly about him. This is a guy that drinks coke during every game, has repeatedly used training camp to "get into shape", and brags about eating huge pasta meals and random fast food before games.

Like, he came into the league as a monstrous 50/50 guy while putting up 220+ hits a game. You act like he couldn't have taken care of himself properly and still been a physical force.

I also think it's entirely ridiculous to think saying he probably could have been better makes me ungrateful. Actually, it's a load of shit.

 

[TheSmokingMan]

Are we really having the Ovi conditioning argument yet again? Even though he's not cut like a Marvel superhero, the guy is still built like a brick shithouse. If he didn't work hard on training there's no way he would have accomplished what he has, had the same longevity, or been as durable while doing it.

He can eat pretty much whatever he wants because he's a professional athlete and burns many times the calories of a normal person in an average day. So maybe get off his back for having a subway and cheetos every now and then.

Having said that, I do feel like he should drop a little weight to improve his speed and agility. The biggest deficiency in his game is his lack of quickness. Especially, now that he doesn't engage in the physicality as much, I think dropping some of the extra muscle might help him get to loose pucks a little easier. Although, I wouldn't take it as far as some have suggested, because I think it will impact his durability.

 

[hockeykicker]

You can get as mad and throw as big a tantrum as you want, it doesn't change the fact Ovi hasn't ever taken his physical conditioning seriously to the level of modern athletes. They have reports like this yearly about him. This is a guy that drinks coke during every game, has repeatedly used training camp to "get into shape", and brags about eating huge pasta meals and random fast food before games.

Like, he came into the league as a monstrous 50/50 guy while putting up 220+ hits a game. You act like he couldn't have taken care of himself properly and still been a physical force.

I also think it's entirely ridiculous to think saying he probably could have been better makes me ungrateful. Actually, it's a load of shit.

Maybe I should have drank coke and ate huge pasta dinners when I was playing in college. I would have been a superstar

But in all seriousness, you could argue that if he changed his conditioning to other people then he doesn't play full seasons, doesn't score all those goals.

 

[hb12xchamps]

Are we really having the Ovi conditioning argument yet again? Even though he's not cut like a Marvel superhero, the guy is still built like a brick shithouse. If he didn't work hard on training there's no way he would have accomplished what he has, had the same longevity, or been as durable while doing it.

He can eat pretty much whatever he wants because he's a professional athlete and burns many times the calories of a normal person in an average day. So maybe get off his back for having a subway and cheetos every now and then.

Having said that, I do feel like he should drop a little weight to improve his speed and agility. The biggest deficiency in his game is his lack of quickness. Especially, now that he doesn't engage in the physicality as much, I think dropping some of the extra muscle might help him get to loose pucks a little easier. Although, I wouldn't take it as far as some have suggested, because I think it will impact his durability.

I’m sorry but if he indeed is as large as that photograph suggests, then he is not taking care of himself at all. Which is totally fine, he’s an icon and has earned that right. He’s also going to be 39 when the season kicks off and he looked awful to start the year and his playoff performance was dreadful. Hopefully he comes to camp in halfway decent shape this year. If they are going to spend to the cap and be competitive for his goal chase, I’d expect the same respect from the captain who was benched in a playoff sweep last year and didn’t look good.