Value of: Alex Vlasic in a trade

[Tobias Kahun]

Vlasic is very underrated.

As others have said, he's a 6'6" defensive stalwart who put up 49 points, is 23 years old and has a very team friendly deal for 5 more seasons.

His value is immense.

I think the caliber of young forward you'd have to be talking about to get him are guys like Matty Beniers, Mason McTavish, Kent Johnson types.

If you aren't prepared to move your young forward of that caliber then don't bother.

30 points.

 

[Gurglesons]

Are you implying Lafreniere is or is on the verge of becoming a franchise winger? Not even close.

He produces at the rate of a good third liner so far in his career.

He's produced significantly better at a 5v5 raw level and per 60 rate than Bedard over the last two years.

He produces at a similar rate to Raymond, Jarvis, Stutzle, Byfield, and Boldy over the last two years at 5v5.

I think if I was offered Schneider and Lafreniere for Vlasic, it wouldn't be an immediate write off like Hawks fans have said in here.

You potentially give Bedard a running mate who is locked in on a relatively cheap deal for the next 7+ years.

But why project a whole new level for Lafreniere and Vlasic staying stagnant/arguably even regressing a bit

I'm not sure I get the argument. What do you think Vlasic turns into?

 

[EbonyRaptor]

JJ Peterka is waaaay to light of a return for a #1 Dman who is signed to term and great contract

Truth be told - I don't think I've seen Buffalo play even once this season so my assessment of Peterka is based solely on his stats - which were better than I expected - 68 points in 77 games is not nothing. He's the right age with decent enough size - so he meets the criteria.

Are the other parts of his game good enough? I don't know because I haven't watched him play.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t agree if you just mean a top line wing. I mean look at how teams draft. Look at how many recent Cup champs had big mobile D.

Franchise level winger? If you mean like Marner, Kucherov - sure. They’re different than Laf/Peterka, at least for now.

I feel like people don't realize how good Peterka has been in Buffalo.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I think that the core to the Hawks dynasty on D was Seabrook and Keith. If you think Vlasic is a Seabrook, then I guess I can see why you'd view him as a foundational / core player.

I think the idea that Vlasic for a player like JJ Peterka or Lafrenière who are top line winger potentials that fit for over 7-8 years with the franchise is "totally light" in terms of a return is frankly ridiculous.

So you don't have an answer to what he's lacking?

The fact that you called him a 3/4D tells me you can't give an answer because you don't watch him play regularly.

 

[Gurglesons]

So you don't have an answer to what he's lacking?

The fact that you called him a 3/4D tells me you can't give an answer because you don't watch him play regularly.

I've already explained it. Similar to John Marino, I just don't value public xGA models showing how good defensively he's been.

Vlasic is good at puck moving, but he isn't an offensive defenseman.

He's has sparkling defensive metrics, but realistically he's still getting blown out on the ice when it comes to the GF/GA battle at 5v5.

Part of that is Chicago. Part of it is likely the same thing people like you told me about John Marino. Expected Goals Against don't really mean jackshit when it comes down to it.

I don't see a top pairing D on a championship team in Vlasic so that would make him a 3/4.

 

[tsujimoto74]

JJ Peterka is waaaay to light of a return for a #1 Dman who is signed to term and great contract

This thread is about Alex Vlasic. What #1 d-man we talking about?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I feel like people don't realize how good Peterka has been in Buffalo.

We’re not talking about that though. Who’s the better player in a vacuum is an argument.

Talking about what GMs prefer I find it hard to believe any team values a wing that’s not a 100 pt or MVP candidate type over a 2D.

Trade value wise: Fact is there’s no real substitute for Vlasic. What sub 25 year old defenders combine his size skating defending and contract. Not saying there’s a ton of Peterkas but it’s a lot easier to replace 28 goals and 68 points on the wing these days than it is to find big mobile 2D. And he needs a new contract.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

NHL teams are going to value a franchise level winger over a defensive specialist on D with size.

Maybe Lafreniere is the wrong comparable. Let's use the Peterka argument which a Hawks fan just say is "way too light".

You'll notice the Hawks fan who started this thread didn't dismiss Peterka.

 

[Gurglesons]

You'll notice the Hawks fan who started this thread didn't dismiss Peterka.

Fair enough. Then my argument is null.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

How about a slightly used Timo Meier? Hell the Devils would probably throw Nemec in as well.

 

[Gurglesons]

We’re not talking about that though. Who’s the better player in a vacuum is an argument.

Talking about what GMs prefer I find it hard to believe any team values a wing that’s not a 100 pt or MVP candidate type over a 2D.

Trade value wise: Fact is there’s no real substitute for Vlasic. What sub 25 year old defenders combine his size skating defending and contract. Not saying there’s a ton of Peterkas but it’s a lot easier to replace 28 goals and 68 points on the wing these days than it is to find big mobile 2D. And he needs a new contract.

2D on a bad team. Gryz was playing top pairing and top powerplay minutes on the Penguins. That doesn't mean he'll play that role when a team is paying out assets for him.

I just don't see Vlasic returning a top flight prospect like Peterka and if he did I think the Hawks would honestly jump at it.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

2D on a bad team. Gryz was playing top pairing and top powerplay minutes on the Penguins. That doesn't mean he'll play that role when a team is paying out assets for him.

I just don't see Vlasic returning a top flight prospect like Peterka and if he did I think the Hawks would honestly jump at it.

Nah he’s legitimately an excellent defender.

 

[Gurglesons]

Nah he’s legitimately an excellent defender.

I'm not denying that and seems like people are getting really lost on semantics here.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I'm not denying that and seems like people are getting really lost on semantics here.

I mean the semantics here is trade value

And from a market perspective Vlasic player type is so much scarcer. Peterka- while great… it’s not the hardest to find/replace wingers.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

This thread is about Alex Vlasic. What #1 d-man we talking about?

I don't consider Vlasic a #1 d-man in the way that term is understood now-a-days. However, he is a top-pairing minute munching d-man who plays in all situations. He's the Devon Toews in the Makar-Toews pairing - as an example.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't consider Vlasic a #1 d-man in the way that term is understood now-a-days. However, he is a top-pairing minute munching d-man who plays in all situations. He's the Devon Toews in the Makar-Toews pairing - as an example.

I don't see Vlasic ever hitting 50 points.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I've already explained it. Similar to John Marino, I just don't value public xGA models showing how good defensively he's been.

Give a specific criticism about his game. Is it his skating? Gap control? Puck carrying? Play along the walls? What is keeping him from being a cornerstone piece?

Vlasic is good at puck moving, but he isn't an offensive defenseman.

He's a two way defenseman. He's an excellent puck carrier - so much so that he was used on zone entries on the PP at times. His skating & reach make him extremely difficult to defend 1v1.

He's has sparkling defensive metrics, but realistically he's still getting blown out on the ice when it comes to the GF/GA battle at 5v5.

The entire team does. He faces the most difficult deployments in the league while playing on a lottery team, what do you expect? A 987 PDO certainly doesn't help either.

I don't see a top pairing D on a championship team in Vlasic so that would make him a 3/4.

Would probably help if you watched him, which you clearly don't.

 

[Gurglesons]

Give a specific criticism about his game. Is it his skating? Gap control? Puck carrying? Play along the walls? What is keeping him from being a cornerstone piece?

He's a two way defenseman. He's an excellent puck carrier - so much so that he was used on zone entries on the PP at times. His skating & reach make him extremely difficult to defend 1v1.

The entire team does. He faces the most difficult deployments in the league while playing on a lottery team, what do you expect? A 987 PDO certainly doesn't help either.

Would probably help if you watched him, which you clearly don't.

I've already explained it. If you keep asking me it doesn't make you suddenly right.

I'm glad the Hawks have a top pairing foundational defenseman in Vlasic. May they be blessed.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Why not? 6'6 mobile shutdown dman seems like a pretty good place to start.

You don't think Hjalmarsson was core to the Hawks 2013 and 2015 cups? The guy who averaged 23 and 26 mins per game?

Lol okay.

He was pretty good in 2010 also.

 

[Chainshot]

This thread is about Alex Vlasic. What #1 d-man we talking about?

Vlasic is low-key that for Chicago. He's the sort of play killer who can transition to offense that is such an asset. That he's on a relative economy deal is a plus.

 

[HFpapi]

30 points.

Yeah you're right. I accidentally looked at his NHL career totals.

Obviously less impressive but still, 30 points for a 23 year old, 6'6" defensive stalwart on an offensively inept team is pretty good. Clearly has some offensive upside and my broader point remains true I'd say.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I heard the same arguments for John Marino for years. Great contract, amazing defensive player according to the analytics.

He's returned a 3rd and Ty Smith and two 2nds.

And he has the added benefit of being a RHD.

Marino had good analytics sure. The difference is he is injury prone and not 6'5. Also Basics analytics are near the top of the league defensively they aren't just good, they are stellar.

Also worth noting that Toews was traded for 2 2nds and that backfired almost immediately.

 

[wetcoast]

I've already explained it. If you keep asking me it doesn't make you suddenly right.

I'm glad the Hawks have a top pairing foundational defenseman in Vlasic. May they be blessed.

If Vlasic is a #3 or 4 Dman on any team in 3 to 5 years then I expect that team to be a SC contender.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Vlasic is low-key that for Chicago. He's the sort of play killer who can transition to offense that is such an asset. That he's on a relative economy deal is a plus.

He’s the kind of guy who would look great next to a #1 D (a Hughes, Dahlin, Makar, etc.), but he’s not a stand alone #1.