Alex Ovechkin hits 700 career NHL goals!

[Midnight Judges]

Not sure why anyone is talking about Sidney Crosby in a thread about 700 goal scorers.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Not sure why anyone is talking about Sidney Crosby in a thread about 700 goal scorers.

Reflexive action. If I were O, would prefer people stop obsessing on the 700 milestone. Celebrate when it happens, chill out til then.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

It clearly shows your bias when you decide for all GMs to chose great center regardless their need. A lot of teams have 1/2 legit centers, getting an epic winger would be better for them. With many great centers in the league, great winger is the rare breed today.

If you mean that all Gms will prefer Crosby to start a team, it doesn't prove his better either, because at equal talent, GM picks center over winger. At equal talent, GM will pick Canadian over Russian. You can't really use this argument.

Without saying that picking Ovy or Crosby won't get you stanley cup without champion team. And even if they will get SC in future, it doesn't mean the choice was right since you can't prove if with other one you wouldn't get it faster.

im not jumping into the Crosby/Ovechkin stuff in this thread, but this take is wrong.

there are more wingers that are elite in this league than true #1 C’s. There are probably only 5-7 truly elite #1 C’s. There’s at least 10 wingers in that list.

 

[shtorm2005]

im not jumping into the Crosby/Ovechkin stuff in this thread, but this take is wrong.

there are more wingers that are elite in this league than true #1 C’s. There are probably only 5-7 truly elite #1 C’s. There’s at least 10 wingers in that list.

My bad, by 1/2 legit centers I mean first and second center. Moving your 2nd legit center on the 3rd line to make a place for Crosby is not better than adding Ovy to your 1st line with your 1st center.

Also, from management view, it's very risky to send your top6 center to bottom6, player might want to leave.

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure there are more than one team that will choose to add Ovy for free than add Crosby at expense of 2nd line center.

 

[daver]

My bad, by 1/2 legit centers I mean first and second center. Moving your 2nd legit center on the 3rd line to make a place for Crosby is not better than adding Ovy to your 1st line with your 1st center.

Also, from management view, it's very risky to send your top6 center to bottom6, player might want to leave.

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure there are more than one team that will choose to add Ovy for free than add Crosby at expense of 2nd line center.

If a team was starting from scratch, they take Crosby over OV.

 

[shtorm2005]

If a team was starting from scratch, they take Crosby over OV.

Hm, yes that's what I said. Because Ovy's is winger and Russian, he must be much much better than Crosby for average GM to pick him. And Ovy isn't much much better than Crosby.

 

[daver]

Hm, yes that's what I said. Because Ovy's is winger and Russian, he has to be much much better than Crosby for average GM to pick him. And Ovy isn't much much better than Crosby.

You typed "much" two times to many.

Crosby is simply the better player offensively and overall.

 

[shtorm2005]

You typed "much" two times to many.

Crosby is simply the better player offensively and overall.

Question is not who you think is better overall. We all know who you think is better.

OP claimed all teams will pick Crosby over Ovy.

1) GMs will chose based on their need. Center heavy teams will certanly pick Ovy, that's more than one team.
2) Gms picking Crosby over Ovy to start team from scratch doesn't prove who's better since russian winger has to be much much better than canadian center, at equal or similar talent, north american GM will pick second one.

 

[daver]

Question is not who you think is better overall. We all know who you think is better.

OP claimed all teams will pick Crosby over Ovy.

1) GMs will chose based on their need. Center heavy teams will certanly pick Ovy, that's more than one team.
2) Gms picking Crosby over Ovy to start team from scratch doesn't prove who's better since russian winger has to be much much better than canadian center, at equal or similar talent, north american GM will pick second one.

We only have to look at their careers to prove who is better.

 

[shtorm2005]

We only have to look at their careers to prove who is better.

Why GM who start a team from scratch should look at Crosby's team achievement since it will be a completely different team? Without team achievements, Crosby is not above Ovy, if not below.

 

[mrv52]

Why GM who start a team from scratch should look at Crosby's team achievement since it will be a completely different team? Without team achievements, Crosby is not above Ovy, if not below.

The entire argument is a red herring. It is not an occurence that exists in the wild.

 

[SealsFan4Life]

maybe Ovi decided to wait til after road trip to score 700.
I think he will get it thursday vs Montreal. at home!

 

[Griffin6612]

I rarely get in these ovie vs Crosby stuff but come on guys. They are both freaking fantastic. As a Pens fan I prefer more cups bit his Ovies goal scoring is a sight to be seen.

 

[edog37]

He lacks the most important "check" for me, peak.

Winning three Cups & consecutive Conn Smythes is as peak as it gets.

 

[edog37]

Why GM who start a team from scratch should look at Crosby's team achievement since it will be a completely different team? Without team achievements, Crosby is not above Ovy, if not below.

Both are captains. Sid has overwhelmingly delivered his entire career. Leading your team to multiple championships is part of the equation.

 

[DearDiary]

Why GM who start a team from scratch should look at Crosby's team achievement since it will be a completely different team? Without team achievements, Crosby is not above Ovy, if not below.

On pace for 80.5 points this season, the Great 8 will not hit 90 points for 10 straight seasons despite playing almost every game. GOAT goal scorer, but it's ridiculous that the last time he hit 90 was when he was young.

Let's be real here, Crosby would get roasted if he put up a 65 point season in his prime. The fact that Ovechkin routinely gets stuff like this looked past, speaks to how lower in regard he's held even by his fans.

 

[psycat]

Winning three Cups & consecutive Conn Smythes is as peak as it gets.

Okay I rephrase he lacks any real standout seasons, his best season is arguably worse than his teammates best and frankly not much better than that of a Patrick Kane, Henrik Sedin, Sakic of Forsberg kind of player. He is certainly behind contemporary Ovechkin in that department and behind a lot of players all time, sometimes inferior ones careerwise sometimes equals such as Jagr, Hull, LaFleur and Esposito. Winning a narrow, albeit probably deserved, Ross is not the same as dominating like for example Jagr did.

Stanley Cup is a team achievement and Conn Smythe(especially weak ones) is a second tier award for me, check the list of Smythe winners and compare it to the major regular season awards for reference.

 

[edog37]

Okay I rephrase he lacks any real standout seasons, his best season is arguably worse than his teammates best and frankly not much better than that of a Patrick Kane, Henrik Sedin, Sakic of Forsberg kind of player.

Stanley Cup is a team achievement and Conn Smythe(especially weak ones) is a second tier award for me, check the list of Smythe winners and compare it to the major regular season awards for reference.

so the playoff MVP when it really counts is somehow a lesser award than some goofy regular season award. Got it. So with that logic in mind, the President’s Trophy should rate higher than the Stanley Cup.

Also, Crosby lead the team to those Cups, being the captain & all. That’s part of the equation...& there are no style points for winning the Conn Smythe either. You either win it or you don’t.

 

[psycat]

so the playoff MVP when it really counts is somehow a lesser award than some goofy regular season award. Got it. So with that logic in mind, the President’s Trophy should rate higher than the Stanley Cup.

Also, Crosby lead the team to those Cups, being the captain & all. That’s part of the equation...& there are no style points for winning the Conn Smythe either. You either win it or you don’t.

Actually per definition winning President's Trophy is less fluky than winning Stanley cup but that's besides the point. Crosby simply never reached the heights other that quite a few all times greats did in terms of individual performance it is what is and certainly holds him back from any discussion about being ranked 5th all time, atleast for people who value actual performance over accolades.

Again compare the list of Conn Smythe winners to that of Hart winners and you will see a clear difference, sure Conn Smythe is a feather in his cap but simply doesn't make up for the gap in peak compared to other all time greats, in my book that is.

 

[edog37]

Actually per definition winning President's Trophy is less fluky than winning Stanley cup but that's besides the point. Crosby simply never reached the heights other that quite a few all times greats did in terms of individual performance it is what is and certainly holds him back from any discussion about being ranked 5th all time, atleast for people who value actual performance over accolades.

what defines greatness is the ability to elevate at the moment of greatest test. Winning Art Ross’s & Hart Trophies aren’t those definitions. Winning Stanley Cups & Conn Smythes are. Case closed....5th GOAT.

 

[psycat]

what defines greatness is the ability to elevate at the moment of greatest test. Winning Art Ross’s & Hart Trophies aren’t those definitions. Winning Stanley Cups & Conn Smythes are. Case closed....5th GOAT.

But there are several players through history with more than 3 cups? In that case he would be behind them for sure, or take Roy with his 3 Smythe's what is the reasoning for ranking Crosby above him in that case? Zetterberg or perhaps Claude Lemieux(because we are talking a wider gap between Crosby and some others in discussion for 5th of all time) above McDavid? Well you can have your opinion, even if it stinks, ill stick to mine.

Considering I have no horse in the race while you are a Pens fan we all know who is more biased.

 

[shtorm2005]

Leading your team

By this logic, last year Crosby lead his team to 4 losses against Isles?

On pace for 80.5 points this season, the Great 8 will not hit 90 points for 10 straight seasons despite playing almost every game. GOAT goal scorer, but it's ridiculous that the last time he hit 90 was when he was young.

Points is the great way to compare playmakers between each other. But, 50 assists, it's not 50 goals. I hope one day you will understand this. 65 points season? Could you remind me what happened? Everything was great in the team, it's just he couldn't score more?

so the playoff MVP when it really counts is somehow a lesser award than some goofy regular season award.

Imagine if art ross and hart would be given to the best player in the best team only. I mean, no matter how good you are, if you're not in the best team, then you don't get it. That's what CS is.

 

[Syckle78]

what defines greatness is the ability to elevate at the moment of greatest test. Winning Art Ross’s & Hart Trophies aren’t those definitions. Winning Stanley Cups & Conn Smythes are. Case closed....5th GOAT.

Weird how the narrative for Crosby has done a 180 of late. It used to be about harts and ross trophies now its about 200 foot game and team accomplishments. The things pen fans mocked for years.

 

[Syckle78]

On pace for 80.5 points this season, the Great 8 will not hit 90 points for 10 straight seasons despite playing almost every game. GOAT goal scorer, but it's ridiculous that the last time he hit 90 was when he was young.

Let's be real here, Crosby would get roasted if he put up a 65 point season in his prime. The fact that Ovechkin routinely gets stuff like this looked past, speaks to how lower in regard he's held even by his fans.

Ovie wasn't roasted to no end here when he put up those totals?

 

[PG Canuck]

Should this thread be unpinned to try and reverse this slump