Aleksander Barkov vs Jonathan Toews

[yeaher]

Barkov is more skilled and a better individual player; Toews is far more accomplished and clutch. Very different kinks in their games: Barkov was probably too tepid offensively to begin his career.

Where I struggle the most is thinking about their relationship with their teammates. I think you could argue that both made the stars around them better...see Tkachuk and Kane. As a Florida fan, I'm only beginning to recognize the extent that Huberdeau and Tkachuk's success is due to Barkov (despite both of them frequently saying it); the same is likely true with Toews but it is more difficult. (Would anyone say that Toews was better than Kane?)

Many said it when they won their first cup and Toews outscored Kane while playing great two way hockey and killing penalties. So much so Toews won the Conn Smythe.

Also, I find Tkachuk to be the far better player is this case, Huberdeau not so much.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I voted Toews now and forever when the poll started , If Barkov can put up a conn smythe run im open to changing my mind

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Many said it when they won their first cup and Toews outscored Kane while playing great two way hockey and killing penalties. So much so Toews won the Conn Smythe.

Also, I find Tkachuk to be the far better player is this case, Huberdeau not so much.

That is a bit misleading, Toews may have lead the team in scoring that year but mostly due to one big series against Vancouver and his scoring dried up after that scoring just 1 goal in the final 10 games.

His two way game wasn't quite there yet and a bit targeted for it, did you know he was a team worse -5 in the SCF that year? Bolland was the main shutdown then.

It generally accepted that Keith or Kane should have got the Conn Smythe that year with their excellent play through the entire playoffs

 

[Bruce Granville]

I voted Toews now and forever when the poll started , If Barkov can put up a conn smythe run im open to changing my mind

That‘s not how “forever” works…

 

[pi314]

This site severely underrates Toews. It feels so weird going to battle for the guy I hated for so long. As a Canucks fan who watched our teams rivalry for years its become crazy to me how underrated Toews gets. Sure he fell off hard later in his career, But during his peak he was a beast.

So true.

 

[Rorschach]

Reinhart isn’t the same level of player overall, but clearly had a great season so I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Kane didn’t play with Toews after he started scoring at elite levels (he had one 10th place scoring finish before 12-13 when they were already separated), and Hossa was already on the back 9 of his career offensively when he played with Toews. I’m not sure what either versions of those players when Toews played with them is really changing for Barkov as opposed to what Reinhart brought this year. And he also played with Huberdeau earlier in his career when Hubs was a 90 point player.

Basically the players I listed were truly great on their own and could raise Toews' play. Reinhart only "got good" playing with Barkov. Thus apples to oranges.

 

[Felidae]

I'm really trying to not be biased here and Barkov is a great player no doubt, I just don't see "it" with Barkov in the playoffs. Toews didn't have a full career of excellence but from 09 to 15 especially he was a superstar out there on the ice. 16 & 17 he was a lesser version of himself but still a very good 1C.

I've only watched about 4 Panthers games this postseason including last night so maybe I'm missing something but I've watched a decent amount of the guy over the years and he doesn't pass the eye test as this game-breaking, dynamic, will his team to a Cup, type of player.

The league is different now with scoring so Barkov's #'s will be better than Toews which is going to muddy people's perceptions, as well as Toews' prime being 10-15 years ago.

But even relative to competition, Barkov's point and PPG finishes have been better than Toews while against stronger competition. That said, they are still very close in that regard, and Toews has the slight edge in goalscoring.

 

[x Tame Impala]

But even relative to competition, Barkov's point and PPG finishes have been better than Toews while against stronger competition. That said, they are still very close in that regard, and Toews has the slight edge in goalscoring.

For Barkov's 11 year career so far he's 20th in regular season scoring. Toews first 11 years he's 16th in scoring. Toews moves up to 14th in scoring when you include his 12th season so we'll see what Barkov does next year I suppose.

Toews has made 10 post season appearances and he's got 45 goals, 119pts in 137 games (.87PPG). Barkov has 16 goals, 50 points in 59 games (.85 PPG) in a higher scoring era. He scores less goals so far as well as you mentioned. Their advanced stats are pretty similar with Toews having the edge in most cases.

These are all just stats/numbers however, my argument is still fundamentally based on the eye test. Toews had an "it factor" that I've yet to see from Barkov and it remains to be seen if Barkov is capable of putting on a Smythe-worthy performance 1, 2, or 3 times to 1C his team to a Stanley Cup.

 

[Felidae]

For Barkov's 11 year career so far he's 20th in regular season scoring. Toews first 11 years he's 16th in scoring. Toews moves up to 14th in scoring when you include his 12th season so we'll see what Barkov does next year I suppose.

Toews has made 10 post season appearances and he's got 45 goals, 119pts in 137 games (.87PPG). Barkov has 16 goals, 50 points in 59 games (.85 PPG) in a higher scoring era. He scores less goals so far as well as you mentioned. Their advanced stats are pretty similar with Toews having the edge in most cases.

Yeah I'm aware of the playoff stats and I'm pretty sure ive already said myself that Toews blows him out of the water in that regard.

But comparing their PPG across their entire careers doesnt really do justice to Barkov.

Credit to Toews for having the much better start to his career but I was referring to their primes with my previous post. Barkov has 2 seasons top 10 in PPG, and another seperate season top 10 in points.

Toews has no top 10 point or PPG finishes. Though a few in the top 11-20, but so does Barkov.

Anyways, its not that big of a deal but I dont think its that controversial to say Barkov is slightly better in terms of overall production. At least, at their best.

These are all just stats/numbers however, my argument is still fundamentally based on the eye test. Toews had an "it factor" that I've yet to see from Barkov and it remains to be seen if Barkov is capable of putting on a Smythe-worthy performance 1, 2, or 3 times to 1C his team to a Stanley Cup.

Fair, and many Cats fans would agree with you that his postseason career has been underwhelming. I will say this is the best Barkov has looked in the POs. He was really good against Boston and Tampa. We'll see if he keeps it up.

 

[Hawkaholic]

It generally accepted that Keith or Kane should have got the Conn Smythe that year with their excellent play through the entire playoffs

lol, no its not.

Toews took most of the key faceoffs, and won a lot of them, shut down the opponents better players, and took heavy matchups. Started far more shifts in his own zone vs. Kane, was the number 1 PK C. Kane was deployed mainly in the O zone, (74%), didn't PK, didn't take key faceoffs, didn't shut down the other teams better players, and was mainly sheltered.

1st round = 8pts in 6GP
2nd round = 12pts in 7GP
3rd round = 6pts in 4GP
Final = 3pts in 6GP

Kane:
7pts in 6GP (Toews outscored him)
8pts in 7GP (Toews outscored him)
5pts in 4GP (Toews outscored him)
8pts in 6GP (Hey, he outscored Toews for once)

 

[CokenoPepsi]

lol, no its not.

Toews took most of the key faceoffs, and won a lot of them, shut down the opponents better players, and took heavy matchups. Started far more shifts in his own zone vs. Kane, was the number 1 PK C. Kane was deployed mainly in the O zone, (74%), didn't PK, didn't take key faceoffs, didn't shut down the other teams better players, and was mainly sheltered.

1st round = 8pts in 6GP
2nd round = 12pts in 7GP
3rd round = 6pts in 4GP
Final = 3pts in 6GP

Kane:
7pts in 6GP (Toews outscored him)
8pts in 7GP (Toews outscored him)
5pts in 4GP (Toews outscored him)
8pts in 6GP (Hey, he outscored Toews for once)

Eh, it more about the quality of points than the quantity, most of Toews points were all on the PP and secondary assists and didn't produce much at even strength and was even a -5 in the SCF.

Kane for example scored more goals at ES than Toews did in the entire playoffs and those goals were so huge as well, obviously the Cup winning goal against the Flyers but don't forget the game tying goal in game 5 against the Predators, they lose that game their season is likely over.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Eh, it more about the quality of points than the quantity, most of Toews points were all on the PP and secondary assists and didn't produce much at even strength and was even a -5 in the SCF.

Kane for example scored more goals at ES than Toews did in the entire playoffs and those goals were so huge as well, obviously the Cup winning goal against the Flyers but don't forget the game tying goal in game 5 against the Predators, they lose that game their season is likely over.

It's OK to be wrong.
You realize Toews had 3 GWGs to Kanes 1? Put Toews in an offense only role and see how he produces against the other teams 3rd and 4th lines, and put Kane in the shut down, PK role, and see how far that team got.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

ESPN told me that Barkov is a mix of Lemieux and Patrice Bergeron so probably him.

 

[BB88]

I'm really trying to not be biased here and Barkov is a great player no doubt, I just don't see "it" with Barkov in the playoffs. Toews didn't have a full career of excellence but from 09 to 15 especially he was a superstar out there on the ice. 16 & 17 he was a lesser version of himself but still a very good 1C.

I've only watched about 4 Panthers games this postseason including last night so maybe I'm missing something but I've watched a decent amount of the guy over the years and he doesn't pass the eye test as this game-breaking, dynamic, will his team to a Cup, type of player.

The league is different now with scoring so Barkov's #'s will be better than Toews which is going to muddy people's perceptions, as well as Toews' prime being 10-15 years ago.

Then you should probably watch more

This is really the 1st post season where he looks like his regular season self, just dominant, taking the air away from the opposition and takes controll of the series


Just lights out

When Barkov's play is winning Cups, then he could considered but he's three short as is.

That way might as well say Toews was better than McDavid

After all Cups are personal awards

 

[x Tame Impala]

Then you should probably watch more

This is really the 1st post season where he looks like his regular season self, just dominant, taking the air away from the opposition and takes controll of the series


Just lights out



That way might as well say Toews was better than McDavid

After all Cups are personal awards

We’re not comparing Toews to McDavid, don’t be obtuse. Barkov and Toews have similar skill sets and are similarly tiered players.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

It's OK to be wrong.
You realize Toews had 3 GWGs to Kanes 1? Put Toews in an offense only role and see how he produces against the other teams 3rd and 4th lines, and put Kane in the shut down, PK role, and see how far that team got.

Is this the whole "Toews can score 100 points but he chooses not " thing?

I don't think Toews would produce much better if at all based on what we saw his career, getting to play a hall of fame winger his near entire career he could barely pass 70 points once.. then you factor in the complete downgrade of linemates he would get...

GWG nice and all but don't tell whole story, Kane's game tying goal in game 5 was a bigger impact than any of the three that Toews happened to score... not even getting into Kane's Stanley Cup winning goal

We’re not comparing Toews to McDavid, don’t be obtuse. Barkov and Toews have similar skill sets and are similarly tiered players.

Eh, it didn't stop people from saying Toews was better than Crosby for years because of Cups.

All those tweets by Tab...

 

[Hawkaholic]

Is this the whole "Toews can score 100 points but he chooses not " thing?

I don't think Toews would produce much better if at all based on what we saw his career, getting to play a hall of fame winger his near entire career he could barely pass 70 points once.. then you factor in the complete downgrade of linemates he would get...

GWG nice and all but don't tell whole story, Kane's game tying goal in game 5 was a bigger impact than any of the three that Toews happened to score... not even getting into Kane's Stanley Cup winning goal

LOL, no, its the "he had far more responsibility and played a much bigger role than Kane did" period. He played the same role his whole career, so I dont think you know anything. But it's a waste of breathe with you anyway, as everyone on the Hawks board knows. You're wrong, you've always been wrong.

 

[elmaco]

All the Hawks homers hot takes here are pretty funny, but im going with Barkov. Winning the cup is a team effort and im not sure Toews was the missing piece.

 

[HolyHagelin]

Lots of players have career years with barkov, and guys who leave him fall off a cliff. He’s an animal, and that falling, tapping it to himself in the air to himself assist he had was a t3 passing play in the RS this year.

It’s still Toews to this point, but i suspect barkov will age better.

 

[Hawkaholic]

All the Hawks homers hot takes here are pretty funny, but im going with Barkov. Winning the cup is a team effort and im not sure Toews was the missing piece.

Without him, they don't win one. Is that what you mean by missing piece? Because its absolutely true.

 

[um]

That‘s not how “forever” works…

To be fair, there was no probably forever option.

 

[SuperScript29]

As far as overall skills go, I think Toews was a very good hockey player, but definitely a tad overrated because he had other things going for him that increased his popularity. Barkov imo is the better player.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Barkov is awesome, truly. Very fun to watch.

 

[authentic]

People acting like Toews wasn’t an integral part of the Hawks Cups and also ignoring how he was the best player on Team Canada. He proved on more than a few occasions that he was not just a complimentary player on the best teams in the world but actually the best player in the biggest games. That’s why he’s “such an overrated” 70 point player.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

In their prime on a cup run, there's not a single player I'd take over Toews. The guy was a beast.