Aleksander Barkov vs Jonathan Toews

[Felidae]

Barkov is more skilled and a better individual player; Toews is far more accomplished and clutch. Very different kinks in their games: Barkov was probably too tepid offensively to begin his career.

Where I struggle the most is thinking about their relationship with their teammates. I think you could argue that both made the stars around them better...see Tkachuk and Kane. As a Florida fan, I'm only beginning to recognize the extent that Huberdeau and Tkachuk's success is due to Barkov (despite both of them frequently saying it); the same is likely true with Toews but it is more difficult. (Would anyone say that Toews was better than Kane?)

Toews was definitely better than Kane from the late 2000s to early 2010s.

From 2007 to 2014 here are their stats.

Kane
GP 576 G 205 P 557 PPG 0.97

82 Game average
G 29. P 79

Toews
GP 565. G 223 P 506. PPG 0.90

82 Game average
G 32 P 73

Over the course of this period, Kane's per game pace amounts to a 6 point gap in a 82 game schedule. One is a one dimensional winger and the other was a top 3 two way forward at the time.

Kane only really started to pull away as the better player in the mid to late 2010s when his production jumped and Toews went on a pretty steep decline.


Lastly, I will say, it's interesting to see people say Barkov is the better individual player, but the only edge he has over Toews is slightly better overall production. But Toews has the edge in nearly everything else. Better selke record, postseason performances, and goalscoring finishes. I think Barkov's more fancy, aesthetically pleasing playstyle might be playing into the perception of being the "better" more "talented" player.

 

[JaegerDice]

Barkov is more skilled and a better individual player; Toews is far more accomplished and clutch. Very different kinks in their games: Barkov was probably too tepid offensively to begin his career.

Where I struggle the most is thinking about their relationship with their teammates. I think you could argue that both made the stars around them better...see Tkachuk and Kane. As a Florida fan, I'm only beginning to recognize the extent that Huberdeau and Tkachuk's success is due to Barkov (despite both of them frequently saying it); the same is likely true with Toews but it is more difficult. (Would anyone say that Toews was better than Kane?)

Toews was absolutely better than Kane from 2008 to 2015.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Toews, it’s really not close. He plays winning hockey, and stands out amongst his peers on every level. Barkov can’t cycle the puck down low in the offensive zone as effectively as Toews in his prime.

Toews was absolutely better than Kane from 2008 to 2015.

He was so good against Boston in 2013 I feel he deserved the Smythe again but I like the way they ended up giving the top 3 all one eventually. They aren’t winning the cup in 2013 with any other center in the league that year.

 

[Mulletman]

2 really unlikeable players but I'm going to have to give it to Barkov. Toews just did a lot of shitty things during his career. People forget about how Toews handled the Kane situation when Kane had his legal troubles. And the letter to the Blackhawks regarding the rebuild. The plant based diet stuff that Toews was on. Mysterious illness and long covid. And now when it's came out that Toews most likely had knowledge about the molestation coverup by the Blackhawks it doesn't look good. Oh and "taking time off from hockey" instead of retiring didn't look good either... At least Barkov hasn't done anything close to this... yet...

 

[eviohh26]

This site severely underrates Toews. It feels so weird going to battle for the guy I hated for so long. As a Canucks fan who watched our teams rivalry for years its become crazy to me how underrated Toews gets. Sure he fell off hard later in his career, But during his peak he was a beast.

 

[biturbo19]

This site severely underrates Toews. It feels so weird going to battle for the guy I hated for so long. As a Canucks fan who watched our teams rivalry for years its become crazy to me how underrated Toews gets. Sure he fell off hard later in his career, But during his peak he was a beast.

Yeah. This is the thing. Toews wasn't just hated by rival teams for no reason. He was an absolute beast who could do anything and show up in literally every facet of the game in an impact way. He was fast, gritty, positionally superb and defensively elite...and had fantastic scoring touch, a high end shot, nose for the net, and determination to score pretty much any sort of goal. He was also an underrated playmaker, who may not have been as pure a passer as Barkov, but always dragged his linemates up with him and put them in positions to succeed.

You factor in the "intangibles" and it just widens the gap from, "somewhat comparable" to "not really very close at all".


Toews was a guy who not only formed part of the crucial "triumvirate" of that Chicago mini-dynasty and brought home all those cups and hardware...But demonstrated it was far from just circumstances. At his peak, he managed to rise above some HoF and all-time elite teammates to stand out as arguably the best player on a Gold Medal Team Canada. Some people continue to scoff at that kind of thing as though it's random and arbitrary...but to me, that's what sets a player apart as truly "clutch". Some players just have it. Some don't. Toews had it in spades...with a different sort of determination to win.



As for Barkov...he's a good player. But how hated is he even, by rival teams? People just don't really fret over him much at all. It's more like Jumbo Joe than Jonathan Toews.

 

[nowhereman]

Toews, without much debate.

As overrated as he may have been in the early 2010s, he was still a top 3-5 center in the game for a good portion of his career. As a Canucks fan, I hated the guy. And, as someone who had the Penguins as my second favorite team through most of my life and had to suffer through the absolute lunacy of people trying to claim he was in Crosby's tier, I often scoffed at what he accomplished.

But, when the dust settled, he was one of the very best two-way players ever and always came up big when it mattered. If you can't draft yourself a generational center ala Sid/Geno/McDavid, Toews was one hell of a consolation prize. He was everything you could want in a player.

As a side note, I played against him in a Bantam AAA tournament in Kelowna back in the day and watched his team absolutely demolish our roster. He was the single best hockey players I've ever shared the ice with (as a player).

 

[Fatass]

3Cups as a leader of his club to no Cups. Imo this is not close. Toews every day and all day. And I love Barkov! But until he can lead his club to a Cup, he’s second fiddle.

 

[Miro4Norris]

Barkov pretty easily. Only aspects where Toews wins is the level of his teammates. And well, Cups because of that as well

The market (Chicago vs Florida/Ft.Laudersdale) doing a lot for their reputation. No surprise players been voting Barky for most underrated player year after year

 

[EXTRAS]

I love barkov but toews was really really great for his prime years

 

[KaraLupin]

Yeah. This is the thing. Toews wasn't just hated by rival teams for no reason. He was an absolute beast who could do anything and show up in literally every facet of the game in an impact way. He was fast, gritty, positionally superb and defensively elite...and had fantastic scoring touch, a high end shot, nose for the net, and determination to score pretty much any sort of goal. He was also an underrated playmaker, who may not have been as pure a passer as Barkov, but always dragged his linemates up with him and put them in positions to succeed.

You factor in the "intangibles" and it just widens the gap from, "somewhat comparable" to "not really very close at all".


Toews was a guy who not only formed part of the crucial "triumvirate" of that Chicago mini-dynasty and brought home all those cups and hardware...But demonstrated it was far from just circumstances. At his peak, he managed to rise above some HoF and all-time elite teammates to stand out as arguably the best player on a Gold Medal Team Canada. Some people continue to scoff at that kind of thing as though it's random and arbitrary...but to me, that's what sets a player apart as truly "clutch". Some players just have it. Some don't. Toews had it in spades...with a different sort of determination to win.



As for Barkov...he's a good player. But how hated is he even, by rival teams? People just don't really fret over him much at all. It's more like Jumbo Joe than Jonathan Toews.

This

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Barkov is more skilled and a better individual player; Toews is far more accomplished and clutch. Very different kinks in their games: Barkov was probably too tepid offensively to begin his career.

Where I struggle the most is thinking about their relationship with their teammates. I think you could argue that both made the stars around them better...see Tkachuk and Kane. As a Florida fan, I'm only beginning to recognize the extent that Huberdeau and Tkachuk's success is due to Barkov (despite both of them frequently saying it); the same is likely true with Toews but it is more difficult. (Would anyone say that Toews was better than Kane?)

For the early part of their careers they pretty much took turns each season being better than each other for a bit.

Kane was better in their rookie season winning the Calder but Toews was better in year 2.

Kane was better in the 09-10 season, next year a wash, but Toews clearly better in 11-12 though this the year injuries started to effect them both.

Lockout year a wash as probably the following season...maybe a slight edge to Toews there.

14-15 the final Cup year is where Kane clearly pulls ahead and it never close again.

 

[Chelios]

For the early part of their careers they pretty much took turns each season being better than each other for a bit.

Kane was better in their rookie season winning the Calder but Toews was better in year 2.

Kane was better in the 09-10 season, next year a wash, but Toews clearly better in 11-12 though this the year injuries started to effect them both.

Lockout year a wash as probably the following season...maybe a slight edge to Toews there.

14-15 the final Cup year is where Kane clearly pulls ahead and it never close again.

Not that I am surprised, given you never pass up an opportunity to minimize Toews, but no they did not "take turns" being better than each other during those seasons unless the only way you look at players is how many points they score. Even looking just at points, they were basically neck and neck from the time they entered the league until they won their last cup (Regular season Toews put up 506 points (223 goals) in 565 games while Kane put up 557 points (205 goals) in 576 games; Playoffs Toews put up 102 points (39 goals) in 117 games while Kane put up 114 points (48 goals) in 116 games. All this while Toews provided Selke level defence and did it all with basically no centre depth behind him.

 

[Regal]

Not that I am surprised, given you never pass up an opportunity to minimize Toews, but no they did not "take turns" being better than each other during those seasons unless the only way you look at players is how many points they score. Even looking just at points, they were basically neck and neck from the time they entered the league until they won their last cup (Regular season Toews put up 506 points (223 goals) in 565 games while Kane put up 557 points (205 goals) in 576 games; Playoffs Toews put up 102 points (39 goals) in 117 games while Kane put up 114 points (48 goals) in 116 games. All this while Toews provided Selke level defence and did it all with basically no centre depth behind him.

Yea, I’d say until 15-16 there wasn’t really a year Kane was clearly better per game, but there was a few where they were pretty equal and a few where Toews was clearly better. Though with regard to points, once the stopped playing together regularly, Kane usually had the worse linemates

 

[Bouboumaster]

It's Barkov for sure now, but Barkov won't be able to catch what Toews did between 2009 to 2016

So I voted Toews now and forever

 

[Felidae]

I'm kinda surprised rarely anyone has voted for the 2nd option.

While Toews has been overall the better player thus far, he did not age well into his 30s. Basically stopped being anywhere near a selke finalist.

Barkov is 28. After this, he still has 1 more "prime" year before 30 were most players fall off statistically.

However, we've seen two way players like Kopitar, Datsyuk, Bergeron continue being selke finalists or at least on the outside into their 30s. If Barkov were to have a similar career trajectory, how would that not give Barkov the edge overall having had the lengthier prime? Given that Bergeron and Kopitar (Barkov's closest comparable) tend to be more highly regarded than Toews due to aging better.

I dont think Toews from ages 18 to 28 is so much better than Barkov that he can't make up for it heading into his 30s.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Yea, I’d say until 15-16 there wasn’t really a year Kane was clearly better per game, but there was a few where they were pretty equal and a few where Toews was clearly better. Though with regard to points, once the stopped playing together regularly, Kane usually had the worse linemates

Well Kane did win the Calder over Toews in 07-08 so that year one over him.

09-10 Kane was a first team all star while being top 10 in scoring out scoring Toews by 20 points... Toews was neither an all star(different positions sure but you would think he would be in the conversation) or Selke finalist that year while getting to play with many would consider a better player than him in Hossa.... So I'd give that year to Kane.


11-12 is clearly Toews no way about it there, just too bad they both had bad injuries that year.

Lockout year a wash, Toews wins a Selke and 2nd team all star (just second time career he was top 3) still playing with Hossa, Kane finishes top 5 in scoring... probably wins it with more help.

13-14 is meh... Toews 3rd in Selke while Kane slightly out produces him but gets hurt.

Then from 14-15 on Kane is better every season and none of the seasons are really even close.

To be noted during all of these years Toews got to play exclusively with hall of fame player Marian Hossa while Kane was playing with let just say inferior talent... centers like Bolland, Richards...Handzus

 

[Eyeseeing]

I think you have to consider the supporting cast.
It’s really difficult to quantify but if you had to….on teammates and success you would have to say Toews.
I think if Barkov had the same quality of players it’s probable he’d have better stats.
One of those things you can’t really compare

 

[um]

Barkov is more skilled and a better individual player; Toews is far more accomplished and clutch. Very different kinks in their games: Barkov was probably too tepid offensively to begin his career.

Where I struggle the most is thinking about their relationship with their teammates. I think you could argue that both made the stars around them better...see Tkachuk and Kane. As a Florida fan, I'm only beginning to recognize the extent that Huberdeau and Tkachuk's success is due to Barkov (despite both of them frequently saying it); the same is likely true with Toews but it is more difficult. (Would anyone say that Toews was better than Kane?)

Toews was certainly better than Kane during their cup years.

Toews was a top 5 forward at his peak, a level Barkov has never come close to. But he didn’t age so well, so we’ll see.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Toews was certainly better than Kane during their cup years.

Toews was a top 5 forward at his peak, a level Barkov has never come close to. But he didn’t age so well, so we’ll see.

Toews may have had more consistent before his devlone but to say certain is a bit of a stretch if not outright wrong if we talking the Cup years of 09-10, 13, and 14-15.

 

[Regal]

Well Kane did win the Calder over Toews in 07-08 so that year one over him.

09-10 Kane was a first team all star while being top 10 in scoring out scoring Toews by 20 points... Toews was neither an all star(different positions sure but you would think he would be in the conversation) or Selke finalist that year while getting to play with many would consider a better player than him in Hossa.... So I'd give that year to Kane.


11-12 is clearly Toews no way about it there, just too bad they both had bad injuries that year.

Lockout year a wash, Toews wins a Selke and 2nd team all star (just second time career he was top 3) still playing with Hossa, Kane finishes top 5 in scoring... probably wins it with more help.

13-14 is meh... Toews 3rd in Selke while Kane slightly out produces him but gets hurt.

Then from 14-15 on Kane is better every season and none of the seasons are really even close.

To be noted during all of these years Toews got to play exclusively with hall of fame player Marian Hossa while Kane was playing with let just say inferior talent... centers like Bolland, Richards...Handzus

Kane won the Calder in large part because he played more games. I think they were close as players. Toews paced for only 3 fewer points

09-10, Toews missed 6 games so their totals look bigger. It was a 15 point gap in pace. And Toews was 4th in Selke voting that year and not too far behind Staal in 3rd. He was already bringing a lot outside of points that I think bridged the gap. He then won the Conn Smythe in the playoffs. Maybe you make an argument for Kane but I don’t think he was clearly better. Also, Toews played by far his most minutes with Kane that year and didn’t play with Hossa that much. He was his 4th most common linemate after Kane, Sharp and Brouwer. He played about 1/4 of his 5v5 min with Hossa.

Along with 11-12, 08-09 and 10-11 I would also give to Toews with similar production but better all around play.

I agree with the lockout year and 13-14 being a push.

14-15 is the first year I think you could make a strong case for Kane because the scoring gap is emphasized by the linemates more this year, but I think it’s still somewhat close in the regular season and pretty much equal in the playoffs.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Kane won the Calder in large part because he played more games. I think they were close as players. Toews paced for only 3 fewer points

09-10, Toews missed 6 games so their totals look bigger. It was a 15 point gap in pace. And Toews was 4th in Selke voting that year and not too far behind Staal in 3rd. He was already bringing a lot outside of points that I think bridged the gap. He then won the Conn Smythe in the playoffs. Maybe you make an argument for Kane but I don’t think he was clearly better. Also, Toews played by far his most minutes with Kane that year and didn’t play with Hossa that much. He was his 4th most common linemate after Kane, Sharp and Brouwer. He played about 1/4 of his 5v5 min with Hossa.

Along with 11-12, 08-09 and 10-11 I would also give to Toews with similar production but better all around play.

I agree with the lockout year and 13-14 being a push.

14-15 is the first year I think you could make a strong case for Kane because the scoring gap is emphasized by the linemates more this year, but I think it’s still somewhat close in the regular season and pretty much equal in the playoffs.

For 09-10 even a 15 point pace is a rather large one, it may not be a huge advantage but I think it would definitely lean towards Kane. I certainly don't see it as a win for Toews as he wasn't even a top 5 center that season...not saying he bad by any stretch.... CS is nice though that also a pick em as many believe Kane should have won the award in the end including the esteemed Big Phil.

Lockout year is interesting, I think a push but Kane did win the CS in those playoffs and unlike in 2010 I don't think you can make the argument that Toews should have got it.

Regular season to his credit Toews won his only Selke and had 48 points in 47 games, 2nd team all star but no Hart finalist.

Kane a 13 point higher pace finish but with scoring even lower this season and playing with Bolland and slow and old Handzus it even more significant.

Season was so short though, I wish it was a full one.

14-15 I see this as a clear win for Kane and hard to see an argument for Toews who in 20 more games could only score 1 more goal and 1 more assist playing with far better linemates.

He got a Selke finalist but didn't win, came in 7th in the Team All Stars and got the Messier award.

Their playoff numbers in the Cup years are interesting.

Toews: 68 games, 20 goals, 44 assists

Kane: 68 games, 30 goals, 40 assists

Offense looks pretty close at first glance but then you see the rather large gap in goals for Kane.

Definitely seems like they went back and forth having better seasons than each other until 14-15 when Kane put distance between them.

But in the end both were absolutely vital and if you take either of them away the Blackhawks don't win three cups...anyone saying one was clearly better and it not even close is out to lunch

 

[Machinehead]

Toews always reminded me of Derek Jeter, and I'm a Yankees fan so that's extremely high praise.

People had a lot of backlash to Jeter and with the media, I kind of get why. At the same time, it became such a meme that a lot of people sort of just forgot that Jeter was a legit Hall of Famer and one of the best offensive players of his era.

That's not far off from Toews in a nutshell, on top of the captain thing, and the dynasty thing, and the big market thing.

 

[Dust]

Toews for better career (so far) and Barkov going forward. It would be Toews for both but his career basically doesn't exist after the age of 30.

 

[Machinehead]

The Kings and Canucks fans sticking up for Toews is like when Stone Cold came out to help The Rock at Backlash.